IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #57

[peel]

Then weeks later LE said he was not considered a suspect but he was still involved in the case.

you know, maybe they are stashing him....as in, keeping him away from the killer(s)....maybe RL saw a certain car or truck and is a material witness to that and the cops don't want him offed......they took him away pretty fast....

 

[WebSight]

I wouldn't read too much into LE presence executing a search warrant. I am an attorney and in a financial fraud case we once had 50 agents raid an office, seizing documents and carrying out huge boxes of evidence, mugging for the media and making statements about fair play. Charges were never filed and they quietly dropped the case. LE acts based on the information they have in front of them at the time - what may seem like a crucial lead can end up being a complete dud. Even as a defense lawyer I rarely fault LE for it - they are usually doing their jobs in good faith.

Alethea, I wonder if you would mind answering a question for me? In re-watching a news video from the day that RL's property was searched there were LEOs with dogs on the Mears property and in their barn. Wouldn't that have required a SW also? Could LE simply go in on a verbal okay from the Mears family? Thx.

 

[sumzero]

bumping for those that missed it.

That statement is unattributed.

 

[margarita25]

Alright, so I just came across this post from L and L's thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sdale-13-July-2012-35&p=10046374#post10046374


( Quote by Foxfire:
"12-15-2013,*06:40 AM#281
Foxfire*

'The following MS Media article Headline on MJK, caused me to make a double take'-

Serial kidnapper*strikes again in Iowa | Amarillo Globe-News

http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news...kes-again-iowa
By The Associated Press
IOWA CITY, Iowa — When Michael Klunder enticed two girls to enter his pickup truck near a rural Iowa school bus stop Monday, it was at least his third kidnapping in a long criminal history in which he was ordered to receive sex offender treatment as a teenager, according to police.
<sniped-read more>"

End quote by Foxfire.)

It goes to show you how many perps like this have prior histories. We know this obviously, and RSOs are always looked at closely. Just thinking more out loud, maybe BG has served hard time. Like hard time. He must have done something really bad like this before, so maybe he escaped a legal loophole in one of the prior cases, idk...

So what about say 10 years ago during this time...

Now here is a quote from marilynilpa responding to Foxfire:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sdale-13-July-2012-35&p=10046374#post10046374

(Quote by 12-15-2013,*06:53 AM#282
Marilynilpa*

"He certainly was that - a serial kidnapper. What a shame he was out of prison and allowed to abduct the two girls in Dayton."
End quote by Marilyn).

So jumping off this post, is BG a "Serial Kidnapper"?

 

[gitana1]

Tells me they were being thorough, as you would hope. If something were to be found implicating RL, it would've been found. (RL doesn't strike me as being real clever or subtle.). Since then, LE's actions suggest that they don't believe RL is a double murderer: repeatedly insisting that he's not a suspect, repeatedly trying to dismiss rumors about RL's involvement, nothing to suggest they've found anything of value during their extensive search, and nothing to suggest that they haven't accounted for his whereabouts during the afternoon of the murders (though we do know LE discovered he'd been at the recycling center, resulting in a probation violation, and later having a beer, again resulting in a probation violation). In other words, RL has been subjected to scrutiny by a phalanx of LE agencies. At this point, I have to believe nothing was found because there is nothing to connect him to the murders.

I think you're right- nothing was found.

But certainly LE has NOT acted like RL is innocent since then. He's been targeted pretty significantly as a focus of the investigation. That's clear. The fact that the sheriff investigating these murders saw fit to accompany RL during his court appearance is extremely significant to me. Also, the statement that he's "still involved" in the investigation is noteworthy, IMO, even though it's followed by what's now protocol whether a person is actually a suspect or not- which is the disclaimer that he's not a suspect.

 

[WebSight]

Alethea, I wonder if you would mind answering a question for me? In re-watching a news video from the day that RL's property was searched there were LEOs with dogs on the Mears property and in their barn. Wouldn't that have required a SW also? Could LE simply go in on a verbal okay from the Mears family? Thx.

Gitana1, I posed this question to Alethea but they have "left the building" so I was wondering if you would mind weighing in on this? Thx!

 

[SomeoneElse333]

you know, maybe they are stashing him....as in, keeping him away from the killer(s)....maybe RL saw a certain car or truck and is a material witness to that and the cops don't want him offed......they took him away pretty fast....

I wondered about this too -- whether it was a form of protective custody.

I'm firmly positioned in my spot on the fence. There is just not enough info about anything to form solid theories. &#127804;

The above is just my opinion.

 

[Burnt Toast]

this was in the news yesterday buried in a story about taking back the trail.

Investigators are awaiting evidence test results to come back from the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Viriginia.

http://fox59.com/2017/05/07/delphi-residents-reclaim-trail-where-girls-were-murdered/

 

[margarita25]

Another post by Foxfire from L and L's thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sdale-13-July-2012-35&p=10043534#post10043534

"12-13-2013,*06:13 PM#247
Foxfire
Registered User


http://www.scribd.com/doc/51536616/F...-Response-Plan

FBI Child Abduction Response Plan <sniped>
3
INITIAL RESPONSE
If there is one lesson to be learned from the trials and errors of previous incidents, it is how the initial complaint should be processed. Without the presence of witnesses who can readily furnish factual details of the incident, the responding officer must determine what probably occurred based upon his/her initial observations and findings. This determination will dictate what investigative steps will be taken. The purpose of the initial response is to gather sufficient information to determine what occurred. The accuracy of this determination or assessment is crucial, in that an actual abduction requires a prompt and detailed investigation.

During this investigation nothing should be assumed and everything should be verified. Far too often crucial details are overlooked because one investigator thought someone else had taken care of a particular aspect, or a witness&#8217;s account of the incident need not be verified because the witness &#8220;seemed credible.&#8221; A rapid and thorough investigation may also develop additional information that will indicate that the matter is not an abduction.

It may be a pretense to cover up the homicide or domestic problems of the reported missing victim, or the child maybe lost or injured or may have run away.
At this point the investigation can &#8220;stand down&#8221; and investigators can take the appropriate action to resolve that matter. It is much easier to redirect the investigation and resources at that point than to make up lost ground and recover overlooked or damaged evidence and/or lost clues because of a failure to initially use all available personnel and resources.

A proper assessment should direct the investigation appropriately from the onset.
__________________

http://leb.fbi.gov/2012/february/cri...investigations

Crimes Against Children Spotlight
The Neighborhood Canvass and Child Abduction Investigations
By Ashli-Jade Douglas 2012

In 76 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within three hours of the reported abduction, and in 89 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within 24 hours. These dramatic statistics illustrate the importance of executing the most effective recovery strategies immediately after a child goes missing. A neighborhood canvass is one such tactic. According to FBI studies, the majority of successfully resolved child abduction cases included a neighborhood canvass.2 Past FBI cases demonstrate the importance of conducting a neighborhood canvass and showcase why this investigative tool frequently helps resolve child abduction incidents.3

At times, law enforcement personnel overlook or underemphasize the importance of this practice. Yet, according to the FBI&#8217;s Behavioral Analysis Unit&#8217;s (BAU) Child Abduction Response Plan (CARP), the neighborhood canvass is, perhaps, the most vital step in missing children cases.4

_________________________________

http://www.yellodyno.com/html/abductions_stats.html

Abduction Statistics

Last edited by Foxfire; 12-13-2013 at*06:43 PM."

*****************
So, jumping off the last sentence from Foxfire's post, what do we know specifically about the canvassing done here?

 

[gitana1]

there were quite a few things seized that day and LE is still waiting on the results of the forensic testing. that suggests to me that they may have found something of "value" during their extensive search.

Wait, are you telling me that in a case as high profile as this there haven't been DNA results yet?

I wouldn't read too much into LE presence executing a search warrant. I am an attorney and in a financial fraud case we once had 50 agents raid an office, seizing documents and carrying out huge boxes of evidence, mugging for the media and making statements about fair play. Charges were never filed and they quietly dropped the case. LE acts based on the information they have in front of them at the time - what may seem like a crucial lead can end up being a complete dud. Even as a defense lawyer I rarely fault LE for it - they are usually doing their jobs in good faith.

So after the financial fraud case did the same LE who was investigating the fraud come to court weeks later and accompany the subject of the search warrant, to court, on an unrelated charge?

That's where my ears perk up.

I mean you're right- in a major case like this it makes sense that LE might come
to a search. But then determine nothing was to be found and clear the subject of the search.

To later make a point of walking in with that handcuffed subject sends a clear message to me, though. And it ain't about "protecting" an innocent guy.

 

[Mom24]

So am I correct in assuming that BG came from behind them, walked past them and then doubled back? Given that LE stated LG began filming because she was concerned she was being followed and the angle of the sunlight in the pic of BG shows he was coming from the barrier end of the bridge, it makes sense that he followed them in.
Also this quote from LE: "One of two things happened. It was chance encounter &#8212; that&#8217;s possible. Don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s likely, but it&#8217;s possible,&#8221; Bursten said. &#8220;Or that person knew that they were going to be there. That&#8217;s possible as well.&#8221; Does that sound to anyone else that LE believe this person somehow knew the girls were going to be there? http://wane.com/2017/02/21/police-to-provide-update-wednesday-on-double-homicide-investigation/

 

[Justice101]

Wait, are you telling me that in a case as high profile as this there haven't been DNA results yet?



So after the financial fraud case did the same LE who was investigating the fraud come to court weeks later and accompany the subject of the search warrant, to court, on an unrelated charge?

That's where my ears perk up.

I mean you're right- in a major case like this it makes sense that LE might come
to a search. But then determine nothing was to be found and clear the subject of the search.

To later make a point of walking in with that handcuffed subject sends a clear message to me, though. And it ain't about "protecting" an innocent guy.

"Forensic testing" is a larger group, DNA testing is just a subset.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think you're right- nothing was found.

But certainly LE has NOT acted like RL is innocent since then. He's been targeted pretty significantly as a focus of the investigation. That's clear. The fact that the sheriff investigating these murders saw fit to accompany RL during his court appearance is extremely significant to me. Also, the statement that he's "still involved" in the investigation is noteworthy, IMO, even though it's followed by what's now protocol whether a person is actually a suspect or not- which is the disclaimer that he's not a suspect.

BBM

How is it extremely significant, IYO? Do you think that amount of security casts doubt on RL's innocence?

Here is Leazenby's answer regarding the security at the court hearing:

"Obviously, under oath, I'm required as sheriff to make sure every individual in our custody is protected and safe," Leazenby said.

I didn't want to blow things out of proportion," he added, saying there was information and rumors jumping about regarding his involvement with this investigation. "We have not received any direct threats, but being in a small county, we've obviously heard things."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwNVlCNEZKelBWUEU/view

 

[margarita25]

Post by Foxfire from L and L's thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sdale-13-July-2012-35&p=10044348#post10044348

12-14-2013,*06:24 AM#254
Foxfire

_____________
"MJK, had honed his predator skills for decades via his many abductions and violent attacks on females. Imo, MJK was also very well read on LE investigative strategies and detection avoidance. The Dayton IA Police Department is a very small LEA with limited resources. MJK, would have been aware of this, imo. Backup resources from State, County, and Federal LEAs would have taken time and delayed the initial investigation of KS & DH's disappearance.*

MJK, was also aware of police jurisdictional linkage blindness which is used to prevent investigators from connecting the dots. Jurisdiction Linkage Blindness is a phrase coined by Professor Steven Egger in the 1980s. Law enforcement investigators sometimes do not see, or are prevented from seeing beyond their own jurisdictional responsibilities.*
__________________________________
http://www.experts123.com/q/what-is-...blindness.html
What is linkage blindness?

Linkage blindness is a term coined by a criminology professor [Steven Egger] who did a study on serial murderers in democratic nations across the world and compared them with serial murderers in America. What he found is that American law enforcement agencies take LONGER to identify serial murderers, and serial murderers commit MORE murders in America than they do in other democratic nations like England, Germany, and France.*

He attributes the reason for that to linkage blindness. American law enforcement agencies suffer from linkage blindness for three reasons: 1) We have what the professor terms a non-system of policing.*
2)Our country is made up of a whole bunch of very, very small police departments. I think the average size is on average 15 police officers across the country.*
3)The police officers in these small departments think within their jurisdiction and not beyond their borders.
____________________________
http://knowledge.sagepub.com/view/violentcrime/n259.xml
Linkage Blindness
DR Steven Egger
Law enforcement investigators sometimes do not see or are prevented from seeing beyond their own jurisdictional responsibilities. The officer's responsibility usually stops at the boundary of the jurisdiction except when hot pursuit is necessary.

A police department's accountability and responsiveness to its jurisdictional clients can create a sense of isolation from the outside world. The term linkage blindness was coined in 1984 to denote an underlying problem with law enforcement serial murder investigations and many other crimes as well.*

Intergovernmental conflict between law enforcement agencies is unfortunately a very common occurrence. The basis of these conflicts is a real or perceived violation of an agency's boundaries or geographical jurisdiction, or of the specific responsibilities of an agency to enforce specific laws. Agencies large and small continually practice boundary maintenance to protect their jurisdictions from intruder agencies moving onto their turf. The problem with boundary maintenance is that a serial killer can*

Therefore, people can pass through their borders and commit criminal acts and then move on, never getting caught or identified. ..

Last edited by Foxfire; 12-14-2013 at*06:51 AM."

 

[Burnt Toast]

I think you're right- nothing was found.

But certainly LE has NOT acted like RL is innocent since then. He's been targeted pretty significantly as a focus of the investigation. That's clear. The fact that the sheriff investigating these murders saw fit to accompany RL during his court appearance is extremely significant to me. Also, the statement that he's "still involved" in the investigation is noteworthy, IMO, even though it's followed by what's now protocol whether a person is actually a suspect or not- which is the disclaimer that he's not a suspect.

thanks. i will probably quote this post in the future. they are so many that just don't realize that saying someone is not a suspect is just standard protocol by LE days....like you said "whether a person is actually a suspect or not." It is nice to see an attorney back up what i have said for weeks.

 

[Agent Apricot]

I thought I read that somewhere. Let me see if I can find it.

All I'm finding is Police saying that LG started filming when she became concerned that they were being followed. I must have assumed it she messaged that to someone? But I could have sworn I read that in an article. For now I'll backtrack that to saying she was concerned she was being followed.
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...e/news-story/28908ec6b693b0460913a84d05b93c13

As far as I know, there's nothing in MSM regarding such a text. That said, I've heard the same and believe it to be true. Imo

 

[cluciano63]

Le was protecting RL in court, imo.

 

[margarita25]

More from Foxfire re: L and L's case: I have no doubt he would say the same thing here re: Abby's and Libby's case:


"Originally Posted by*Cherry*

I have completely lost faith in this investigation. They need to go back to the stores where they were first SEEN."

Response to Cherry from Foxfire re quote above (L and L's case):

"12-20-2013, 11:01 PM#329
Foxfire

Cherry, imo, if investigators have hit a wall. They should release more information to the public. The public is a very valuable resource that has been squandered throughout this investigation, imo.*

Releasing additional information would not only provide awareness and possible tips for this investigation, but would be a reminder to others that abductions can happen to anyone, anywhere, and at anytime."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sdale-13-July-2012-35&p=10059720#post10059720

 

[gitana1]

Alethea, I wonder if you would mind answering a question for me? In re-watching a news video from the day that RL's property was searched there were LEOs with dogs on the Mears property and in their barn. Wouldn't that have required a SW also? Could LE simply go in on a verbal okay from the Mears family? Thx.

They could do it but if they have even the tiniest thought that hey might find evidence which links anyone from the Mears family, they would secure a warrant first.

Its just good, standard practice to get search warrants even when you have permission. But when did it occur? If it was a search for the girls when missing that would be different as they aren't searching for evidence of a perp but instead to find a missing person or child. In those cases verbal okays suffice.

 

[gitana1]

Le was protecting RL in court, imo.

From what? They don't need the main investigating sheriff for that. Regular bailiffs are fine. And there are metal detectors in court.