IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[Burnt Toast]

If it's a local, I think it's a rage/revenge killing.

Something going on in his life or the girls' life caused intense anger in him.

or something that escalated from a confrontation.

 

[mtnlites]

(Marking my spot/intrigued by the Flora fire. Could this be a lead? Could be unrelated of course, but worth really looking into, imo. Thanks for finding those quotes, MistyWaters.

Travis Forbes and the last attack that put him away comes to mind.)

The Flora fire is something that I have been researching and sharing info about since Abby and Libby were killed. It would be great to be able to share that information and links to the other articles. It was actually my bringing up of the story and sharing it in SM that got one of the groups to sleuthing ME. A scary experience.

 

[margarita25]

So, thinking out loud (I guess that's what we are all doing here lol), I thought I'd randomly pick a case where one perp was tied to 2 separate cases (for comparative purposes while trying to find a connection to what else this monster has likely done, imo), so I picked Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham, murdered by JLM. These killings occurred 5 years apart. (Yikes L and L were 5 years ago...but since LE has not confirmed a connection...)...

Back to my point, which was, um I forgot. Ugh I hate it when that happens. Something about time spans between incidents...idk...maybe look back 5 years ago in the area, sigh.

(Sometimes I feel that with the passage of time the quality of my posts diminishes lol...I seem to think my initial impressions/questions and thoughts are best upon the initial onset when things are really fresh.)

 

[mtnlites]

For anyone else interested in the fire, take a trip to the basement and scanner feed from posts made about a month ago. Just don't discuss your findings up here.

 

[margarita25]

For anyone else interested in the fire, take a trip to the basement and scanner feed from posts made about a month ago. Just don't discuss your findings up here.

(I love this place....

:websleuther

 

[MOTORUNNER]

I know there's thousands of tips and so many people living in Flora, but the tip i sent in about a man I saw who had a likeness to BG lives in Flora... I know it's a long shot of having anything to do with it, but i'm interested...

 

[KellyNoonan]

For anyone else interested in the fire, take a trip to the basement and scanner feed from posts made about a month ago. Just don't discuss your findings up here.

I don't know how to find that thread using this app. Can you post a link? Thank you.


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[KellyNoonan]

It would be much better if he would become a Verified Insider.

We need something new to sink our teeth into.

...or "she"... [emoji16]


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[JLSChook]

Alright, here we go. I've read every WS post, every rumor on SM and don't feel like I'm any farther ahead in what's going on then I did on day one. Boy are you guys passionate here. Holy Toledo.

The is my first post to WS and likely my last. Love the site and came here as a result of Libby and Abbie. You know how the FBI mentioned someone taking an unusual interest in this case, I'm definitely that guy.

...or "she"... [emoji16]


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The above BBM by me kinda gave me a clue.

 

[Falling Down]

Alright, here we go. I've read every WS post, every rumor on SM and don't feel like I'm any farther ahead in what's going on then I did on day one. Boy are you guys passionate here. Holy Toledo.

The is my first post to WS and likely my last. Love the site and came here as a result of Libby and Abbie. You know how the FBI mentioned someone taking an unusual interest in this case, I'm definitely that guy.

This is all my opinion only.

Do you remember, about 3000 posts back, someone posted and said that they had information from someone connected to LE? Yeah yeah, I know, not a verified insider, but still. She made a great point. And I agree.

Often times, the simplest answer is the answer. This isn't a SK or anything crazy like that, this is a local issue. Initially, I'm not sure that LE knew and based on the horrific details of the murders, reacted quickly. We all know how much traffic is around the area with truckers etc. It would have almost been negligent not to take nation wide action, in my mind.

RL is and isn't involved. He's only involved by way of possibly knowing the guilty parties or somehow assisting, but unknowingly. Basically, he got caught up.

I really think that only one of the girls was the true target and it's a result of something local. I don't know what exactly that is. Whether retaliation etc. I think there are multiple people out there that know the truth but, again, small town, and will not come forward.

I don't believe the girls were taken anywhere. That night was an unorganized search for the most part. I spent many years in search and rescue and have been involved in similar situations. It's extremely tough to find someone in the dark. Especially if they're dead. I think they just weren't found.

I don't mean to sound cold when I say this, but I really don't think this will be as "exciting" as some would like to make it. Take a look at the trail and the bridge for instance. You have to have very detailed knowledge of the area to even be there. This isn't a random predator that saw an opportunity and took it, that happens at the mall, or the park etc. This was way off the road. The person that did this was specifically there for the girls. He had a plan in place and executed. I believe he likely parked in the cemetery. If he drove there at all. From everything that I've seen, that makes the most sense. To me anyways.

I respect each one of your posts. Like I said, you're a passionate bunch.

Finally. Think for a second, based on the victims, their ages and the suspected violent nature for which they were killed, I think we'd be hearing a lot more from LE if this case had gone cold. I'm fairly certain that they know the story for the most part and are just trying to connect the dots and DNA. This is going to be a hard case to eventually crack, but they will and I think we'll all be surprised that it truly was a local thing vs. some crazed lunatic driving around looking for victims. I wouldn't be surprised if no sexual assault took place.

It's obvious to me that they'll seek the death penalty and want an air tight case that will result in a conviction. That requires patience, both on their part and ours. And while I'd love to hear some LE leaks, I'm extremely impressed with how many leaks there have been. Virtually none and that's crazy considering how many people were involved.

All my opinion of course. Good day to you all.

BBM

I've thought this from the beginning. A lot of locals didn't know the bridge was there, until this happened. You have to know it's there. It's not visible from Delphi, or for that matter surrounding roads.

Good post.

 

[KellyNoonan]

The above BBM by me kinda gave me a clue.

Darnit!! [emoji58] Excellent sleuthing. Lol


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[margarita25]

BBM

I've thought this from the beginning. A lot of locals didn't know the bridge was there, until this happened. You have to know it's there. It's not visible from Delphi, or for that matter surrounding roads.

Good post.

Adding to your post, I remember early someone here went there and took pictures, etc. She had a hard time finding that location as a nonlocal, iirc. Which is why I am wracking my brain trying to figure out what his connection to this area is, past or present, which could be infinite...many ideas presented here.

 

[margarita25]

Does anyone here ever go back and read through old posts? I feel like many ideas get presented here, but they don't get followed up/researched enough by us. For example, the aspect of a possible hunter...there also seems to be many questions which have been posted which go unanswered, for example, was he working in the area? How do we take such ideas and develop them further? Hope this makes sense.

 

[LAK]

Alright, here we go. I've read every WS post, every rumor on SM and don't feel like I'm any farther ahead in what's going on then I did on day one. Boy are you guys passionate here. Holy Toledo.

The is my first post to WS and likely my last. Love the site and came here as a result of Libby and Abbie. You know how the FBI mentioned someone taking an unusual interest in this case, I'm definitely that guy.

This is all my opinion only.

Do you remember, about 3000 posts back, someone posted and said that they had information from someone connected to LE? Yeah yeah, I know, not a verified insider, but still. She made a great point. And I agree.

Often times, the simplest answer is the answer. This isn't a SK or anything crazy like that, this is a local issue. Initially, I'm not sure that LE knew and based on the horrific details of the murders, reacted quickly. We all know how much traffic is around the area with truckers etc. It would have almost been negligent not to take nation wide action, in my mind.

RL is and isn't involved. He's only involved by way of possibly knowing the guilty parties or somehow assisting, but unknowingly. Basically, he got caught up.

I really think that only one of the girls was the true target and it's a result of something local. I don't know what exactly that is. Whether retaliation etc. I think there are multiple people out there that know the truth but, again, small town, and will not come forward.

I don't believe the girls were taken anywhere. That night was an unorganized search for the most part. I spent many years in search and rescue and have been involved in similar situations. It's extremely tough to find someone in the dark. Especially if they're dead. I think they just weren't found.

I don't mean to sound cold when I say this, but I really don't think this will be as "exciting" as some would like to make it. Take a look at the trail and the bridge for instance. You have to have very detailed knowledge of the area to even be there. This isn't a random predator that saw an opportunity and took it, that happens at the mall, or the park etc. This was way off the road. The person that did this was specifically there for the girls. He had a plan in place and executed. I believe he likely parked in the cemetery. If he drove there at all. From everything that I've seen, that makes the most sense. To me anyways.

I respect each one of your posts. Like I said, you're a passionate bunch.

Finally. Think for a second, based on the victims, their ages and the suspected violent nature for which they were killed, I think we'd be hearing a lot more from LE if this case had gone cold. I'm fairly certain that they know the story for the most part and are just trying to connect the dots and DNA. This is going to be a hard case to eventually crack, but they will and I think we'll all be surprised that it truly was a local thing vs. some crazed lunatic driving around looking for victims. I wouldn't be surprised if no sexual assault took place.

It's obvious to me that they'll seek the death penalty and want an air tight case that will result in a conviction. That requires patience, both on their part and ours. And while I'd love to hear some LE leaks, I'm extremely impressed with how many leaks there have been. Virtually none and that's crazy considering how many people were involved.

All my opinion of course. Good day to you all.

Thank you for this great post- I agree with everything you said except I do still believe that SA could have been a motive. Its always useful to remember Occums Razor when trying to come up with any theory, and in my opinion you hit the nail on the head. Please stick around because its so easy to go down the rabbit hole when you are as passionate as we are. MOO of course.

 

[hilary1617]

The is my first post to WS and likely my last. Love the site and came here as a result of Libby and Abbie. You know how the FBI mentioned someone taking an unusual interest in this case, I'm definitely that guy.
...

Hi and welcome GMF3, thanks for your post and I hope you continue. Your view is interesting and adds to the conversation!

In respect to your above specific reference, I think you may be taking the FBI mention out of context??? IIRC wasn't that LE comment about unusual interest cited as means to potentially identify who might be BG and to send in tips? e.g. POI looks like BG image, voice, maybe acting out of character, maybe recently changed appearance, maybe taking an unusual interest in the case...

Hoping you and I are thinking about different quotes! All the best!

 

[KyMom]

Whether or not BG is local and knows the area or just happened upon it from wandering - I still feel like Libby & Abby became his victims due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time - that if it had been any other female there instead of the girls at that moment, I think he would have done, or attempted to do, the same thing. I believe this is an evil person who was there that day to do something sick & evil to anyone he felt was a good target.

JMO

 

[SonnieM]

Im from the Uk n understand that most things posted in the daily mail is b******t but I would like to know other opinions on why the bridge was opened so soon??

Quote below n not my wording...
It seems that police no longer need the public's help because they already have their suspect in custody. Police even reopened the remote bridge soon after the killings. Why would they do that if they thought a killer were still on the loose?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Indiana-teens-speak-case.html#ixzz4go6PfD3g
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[mtnlites]

I don't know how to find that thread using this app. Can you post a link? Thank you.


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Are we allowed to post links to the basement? I don't mind sharing, I just don't want to get in trouble.

 

[tuffgongc9]

First post and just my opinion with a couple things to think about. IMO this was a SK or at least a random professional opportunity kill. Random. He could have been familiar with the area, but I am 99.99% positive that BG is not anywhere near local. He would have been found immediately. He was unknowingly recorded in video and audio and even if the photos are grainy there is a lot of information. His physical appearance & size, his clothes, his posture, his gait, his voice, etc. The FBI have unbelievable technological resources. Probably tech that isn't even available to the public. I believe investigators ruled out the likelihood of him being local within a few days. If they suspected he was local would the FBI have launched 6000 digital billboards in 46 states 10 days after the killings? I wonder if they have ever taken such broad action when the suspect ended up being local? Maybe it's protocol for all murders or abductions with certain criteria. Perhaps this could be figured out with some appropriate research. Unless it was a massive diversionary tactic to make a potential local suspect feel more at ease or had no credible leads at the time then I think they realized they guy was probably long gone before the bodies were even found.

I really want to to know the answer to one question. Was the area where the bodies were found searched on 2/13 or very early 2/14? I realize we probably don't have this info, but it seems improbable to me that they didn't find the bodies initially. Where the bodies were found from where the BG photo was taken was not far at all. It seems like less than 1000 feet. At the end of this bridge is the short but steep embankment on the left that leads to the private road where 'down the hill' was very likely recorded. Once down here the bridge is up to the left and the creek is straight ahead. Once you get up to the creek you can literally see the area where they were found across the way although it is upstream maybe a couple hundred feet. The searchers knew where they were initially headed via at least one snapchat image. If I were a searcher, one the first plausible scenarios would have been an accident and possible fall off the bridge. I think searchers were probably at the SW end where the abduction took place immediately. Once you're here you're very close to the bodies and if they were there all along, but weren't across the stream, they would have been found immediately. You would think there would be evidence of a struggle or maybe a foot print in the mud once they were here. I don't know, it just seems unlikely that they weren't found if there all along. I realize they may have been hidden or camouflaged and the perp could have covered his tracks. Still, if we knew for sure that area was searched and they were not there then that opens up a huge can of worms.

My opinion (of course) is that it was a SK that lives no where near Delphi. The girls may have been creeped out enough to take a video, but not in a million years would they have expected their lives to be in danger. They were together, with phones, in a public park, in the middle of the day, just blocks from Abby's house, in a town where a violent crime probably hadn't occurred in decades (assumption). The girls were maybe assaulted then strangled or garroted and he was long gone right away. He had no reason to take their phones without knowing he was recorded. If it happened quickly, what difference does it make? I'm still unsure about how a lone perp gained control over both, or how or why the creek was crossed, but I still think it is the most likely scenario. He would have had to kill one girl first with the other one still ailve, although they could have been restrained or incapacitated. I don't think it's impossible for more than one person to be involved. There could have been a second person and maybe even vehicle on the access road below. I just think a lone wolf who knew exactly what he was doing is the most likely scenario. The longer this goes one the more the rumors start to circulate and the more ridiculous they become. I think LE suspect or know it's a SK and don't have enough to make an arrest. If they strongly suspected a random SK then it would also explain why LE didn't feel Delphi was at risk. He is long gone and has no reason to return.

Just my ramblings. It's nice to not have to contend with many theories about satanism, the occult or the free masons involvement on this thread!

 

[LaneGirl]

Does anyone here ever go back and read through old posts? I feel like many ideas get presented here, but they don't get followed up/researched enough by us. For example, the aspect of a possible hunter...there also seems to be many questions which have been posted which go unanswered, for example, was he working in the area? How do we take such ideas and develop them further? Hope this makes sense.

Yeah I tried but there are 58 threads so I gave up.