IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #58

[Burnt Toast]

"We have a killer on the streets running around our state, our nation. We need to get that. And I need people's help to do that. Somebody knows. Please call it in." Patty said."
http://www.wthr.com/article/large-turnout-for-celebration-of-life-for-delphi-murder-victims

If MP has suspicions, speculation could be read into his statement -- the perp does not live in Delphi but is in Indiana and is not presently incarcerated.

i think the only thing MP knows that we don't is the cause of death, anything more than that could compromise LE's investigation. It sounds like pure speculation.

 

[MistyWaters]

Since we're guessing, I would think this most likely. The scenario with them being shot, perhaps as they were fleeing. IMO

I've began to wonder about a intentional and deliberate shoot to kill scenario because of various comments in media reports, a couple examples.....

"Why Libby? Why Abby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County?" Carter asked struggling to control his emotion."
http://fox59.com/2017/02/21/officials-to-provide-update-in-murder-investigation-of-delphi-teens/

"Even if we would've put an Amber Alert out, it would not have done this case any good," Riley said. "In the short period of time, and the location that the bodies were found, it would not have helped us in finding any leads at all."
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good

 

[Shiressleuth]

my guess he had been driving for quite some time prior to the murders, and that LE has been aware of it. The town is too small for them not to know. They have probably driven by his place and the white truck countless times.

I'm sure police would not ignore a traffic offence. Like they didn't when he was discovered. He was getting close to the end of his ban and stupidly went on a back road to the waste station. I don't believe he drove to Lafayette or he would have been done for that too IMO. As posters have already said if it was habitual someone would have dobbed .him in for sure in the previous two years.

 

[kat913]

Websight well done...I was looking at them and saw this little add on

It;'s called a magnattach....just what it sounds like...attach anything metal.

Just a curious idea...

 

[MistyWaters]

i think the only thing MP knows that we don't is the cause of death, anything more than that could compromise LE's investigation. It sounds like pure speculation.

Okay well then how about the conclusion can be drawn, considering MP refers to the suspect "on the streets, running around our state, our nation" that MP speculates RL is not the guilty party as his very specific reference also excludes anyone presently incarcerated,

 

[Burnt Toast]

"What if" someone was staying at his house at that time, so RL knows him well enough; RL was really gone where he finally admitted he went; and the rest of this speculative scenario is that LE was angry with RL for not being forthcoming about this immediately. He could be behind bars for violating probation, retaliation, and now for his own protection. as well. I don't believe he was involved in murder, nor condones it.
More interested in what all you other sleuths have to say, though...

I don't think LE put people in jail for protection.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Maybe someone has the link handy or it is in the media thread but in one article there was a mention (it could have been a quote) that they had interviewed some 300 persons, issued 70 subpoenas, and conducted a dozen searches. That was about or slightly less than one month into this - I believe before RL's place was searched. And it might have been the Carroll County prosecutor that was giving this information.

yes, i once posted something. I believe it was something that was said just a few days before the day at RL's. I think it was a couple of searches, and a dozen search warrants (wish could be for a variety of things) and i think it was 77 subpoenas. if you are trying to find it I would look for news from march 14 or 15. I will see if i can find it, although i have to leave shortly.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Maybe someone has the link handy or it is in the media thread but in one article there was a mention (it could have been a quote) that they had interviewed some 300 persons, issued 70 subpoenas, and conducted a dozen searches. That was about or slightly less than one month into this - I believe before RL's place was searched. And it might have been the Carroll County prosecutor that was giving this information.

This is from CBS on the 17th. however, it is not the one i am trying to find.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/search-warrant-served-in-case-of-slain-delphi-indiana-girls/


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/15/indiana-teens-killer-may-have-met-police-prosecutors-say.html

 

[Burnt Toast]

Maybe someone has the link handy or it is in the media thread but in one article there was a mention (it could have been a quote) that they had interviewed some 300 persons, issued 70 subpoenas, and conducted a dozen searches. That was about or slightly less than one month into this - I believe before RL's place was searched. And it might have been the Carroll County prosecutor that was giving this information.

he is the one i was thinking about...a couple of searches.

http://fox59.com/2017/03/14/prosecu...r-received-crucial-tip-due-to-scope-of-probe/

 

[Wraith13th]

Yes, to me this says it was more about both places and their proximity to the crime scene and not so much the person, although the person was necessarily checked out as well .

LE warned not to read too much into the SW at RL's. It is unfortunate that the simultaneous search at the Mears' property was never mentioned by the MSM on the scene. We might have sleuthed that news in a different manner knowing two properties were being searched.

With two simultaneous searches across the street from each other, my mind would have wondered how those properties might have been used in the crime, as the probability of two neighboring property owners being in cahoots to commit the crime would be quite low (although it could be).

Definitely just imo, of course.

Wonder if this is the neighbor who found them...???

 

[Shiressleuth]

Okay well then how about the conclusion can be drawn, considering MP refers to the suspect "on the streets, running around our state, our nation" that MP speculates RL is not the guilty party as his very specific reference also excludes anyone presently incarcerated,

That is a definite interpretation although, excluding RL , I had hoped the perp might be in custody for another crime.

 

[ocgrad]

Wonder if this is the neighbor who found them...???

It would not have to be the property owner for them to have access to the barn. If you review the property owners in the area you will see the Mears own a lot of land and must hire many folks. Also they may lease barns they are not using. RL may do so also.

 

[Cryptic]

The other thought is, this is a deeply entrenched local crime where many of the players know each other. If the latter, why in the heck are we still here sleuthing? Shouldn't this have been an easy crime to solve if that were the case?

Ordinarily, I would agree with you. Such killers never tell anybody about their crime- except their current girl friend and the "cool" ex con at the bar. Thus, they are usually quickly caught.

One thing, however, that gives me hope that the police have a suspect(s) in mind is the horrific murder of Jessica Chambers. The case seemed to go cold as the police needed time to unravel a complex coalition of local gangsters, druggees, jihad fan boys and various wanna'bes.

This involved sifting though a lot of circumstantial evidence, lies, half truths, truths and "I will help the police, but they must help me- first" type dealings from members of the "coalition". But.... an arrest was made. I really pray that this case is similar and that an arrest will come tomorrow.

 

[Evania]

Libby was a strong swimmer; maybe she helped Abby across. But they would be drenched and cold and very vulnerable to hypothermia.

Reading your post reminds me of the comment the grandfather made at the press conference. Something about how the girls could have separated, but they chose to stay together.

I believe they tried making a break for it.

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[Evania]

Since we're guessing, I would think this most likely. The scenario with them being shot, perhaps as they were fleeing. IMO

That's my guess as well, more or less. Although I think he was angry and did additional things as well. Pure speculation on my part. IMO

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[MistyWaters]

It is right to wait for the release of information. A petition to seal only requires an affidavit where facts are stated, to the best of their knowledge at that point in time. Some of these facts can turn out to be determined at a later time to not to be a fact at all and/or is actually untrue. So long as an attested statement of fact is not made of something that is known to be false at the timethen the judge must accept it on its face as true.

Often times you will see this with search warrants. With a case search warrants are applied for at different dates going forward in time from the time of the crime. If you were to read the affidavits it is not uncommon to see facts attested to in the earliest warrants completely missing or changed in later warrants. For example, in the Missy Bevers case the earliest three search warrants (prior to her autopsy) mentioned wounds and attributed those to indicate a mechanism of death (without using that precise term). Later warrants starting just hours after the autopsy no longer attested to such facts - they were no longer stated in any warrant going forward.

We have no way of knowing that the attested statement or alleged fact of the location of the murder is truly a fact or merely a "to the best of their knowledge" kind of fact at the time of the preparation of the Petition To Seal. Until LE releases more information or this goes to trial the veracity of that fact cannot be ascertained.

Jethro, I've intended to respond to this post several times because your response has me confused.

The Petition to Seal Autopsy Report was presented to the Court by the County Prosecutor AFTER the Autopsy Report was completed by the Carroll County Coroner. The Autopsy Report concerns WHAT caused the loss of life, but not who is responsible.

Can you give a specific example of why an Autopsy Report would later be required to be changed (aside from a total incompetence situation which in this case is doubtful considering the high level attention) as I have never heard of that occurring. Because my point is unless the Autopsy Report is required to be changed, the few details mentioned in Petition to Seal can be considered facts of the case as presented by the prosecution. "On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana."

The Autopsy Report does not concern itself with WHO caused the death, which of course is when LE steps in. The connection you're making to LE Search Warrants executed prior to an autopsy being completed in another case really has no bearing on an Autopsy Report in this case that's signed and sealed. If I totally missed the point you're attempting to offer, then I apologize.




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[ClementineK]

Another thought, don't know whether possible:
Abducted from South bridge end, driven by car to another location, left injured/dead at some place on RL-ground. RL found them, panicked because of possible investigation into himself (alcohol, driving etc.) and notified someone to help him dragging ("Not in a million years!") the bodies by night to the already searched location on his property (last CS) where it seemed impossible to have dragged or carried the girls (as he said and stressed).
Does it make sense in any form?

It would be "twisted" IF something like this would have been the crime flow ....

I keep having to remind myself of something I checked out more towards the beginning of this. I checked prior weather and precipitation from at least a week beforehand and after the murders for a few days. I wish I could provide a link but it was hard for me to find the observed weather for that area at the time and I didn't save it.. The ground would've been moist enough for good footprints and any drag marks. It makes me think that they have a really good idea of the locations of where things transpired, at least the flow of the events, and where BG left from. They'd also had at least a few clear days after the crimes to find other footprints, ect. before it rained at all.

 

[ClementineK]

I should've added that I guess my point on that is that it makes me think that they'd surely have found footprints from his house to where they were found and back to his house. I guess it isn't totally impossible but I'd think they'd have been much more interested in *only* him and people known to him and it makes me wonder if we'd be seeing billboards so far away if that were the case.. Who knows.. I feel like all I can do is guess at this point.

 

[gliving]

You have a good point whiskers. I don't think we know if other Mears property was searched because we don't know the details of all the search warrants. It would be logical based on the proximity to the CS imo.

RL's probation terms said he wasn't to have access to a vehicle. In one of the search videos I thought I saw his truck being removed from the Mears' barn (at the time I thought it was RL's barn) so I kinda assume he was storing it across the road from his house. Perhaps that's why the barn was searched. Another reason could be just the close proximity to his house. He could easily put something there.

Of course not accusing RL of a crime, :blushing: just sharing my thoughts of why LE searched there.

 

[tuffgongc9]

A little off subject but I came across a statistic today on the NPR website that really surprised me. Evidently 1/3 of murders in the US go unsolved. In 2015 the FBI national clearance rate for homicide was 64.1%, and even worse 'clearance' does not equal conviction, it merely means the case ended in an arrest. Criminologists estimate that 200,000 murders have gone unsolved since the 1960s.

This really surprised me. I thought with the rapid advances in technology and security cameras everywhere that catching killers was easier than ever, but somehow the clearance rate is only 64% and fifty years ago it was over 90%. This seems irrational. I guess the standards for charging people are much higher now and prosecutors demand open-and-shut cases. Regardless, 1/3 of murders going unsolved really surprised me and I thought I'd share.

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved

It also contains a link to a different page where you can search how many crimes the police 'cleared' by a specific town or city. It appears to work and brings up a lot of information when you search a municipality.