IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[MistyWaters]

The suspect would have to commit a crime for LE to get the dna swab though right? What if he doesn't put a foot wrong? Could they arrest and swab on a minor offence like traffic for instance? Could they get the dna surreptitiously and it still be legal?

I can't answer that but considering LE is not judge and jury, people get arrested for crimes they didn't commit all the time. Not enough evidence or enter a good lawyer and the charges get dropped. If this tactic is also used as a means to obtain a DNA sample, I'd be very surprised that a perpetrator who murders two young teens lives an otherwise squeaky clean life. All to often it works the other way, where laws benefit the criminal.

 

[Rott Mom]

I'm sorry if this is not allowed, but I really want to know why the property across from RL's (the Mears) was searched.

 

[MistyWaters]

Not in the US... 4th amendment protection against illegal search and seizure. LE cannot arrest, or even search, based on mere "suspicion." They must have probable cause, an objective reason and evidence, to believe they will find evidence related to the crime and present that to a judge for approval [ie, search warrant] before a search can be executed. They even have to list on the warrant the evidence they expect to find.
Taking a DNA swab involuntarily requires the same showing of probable cause.

Is a tip sufficient probable cause? I would think it depends on the tip. Someone calling and saying "you should look at my neighbor" without much in the way of specifics wouldn't be enough. But a caller that says "my neighbor looks and sounds like BG and he told me he was going hiking at the bridge that morning, I saw him sharpening a knife right before he left and he came back covered in blood, and the next day shaved his moustache and asked me to look after his puppy because he was leaving town for awhile"... yeah, that would probably be sufficient cause for a search and DNA swab. [emoji6] [emoji190] [emoji4]

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Thanks for your clarification. Another example I was thinking about was a very strong anonymous tip involving second hand information with no proof (perhaps the tipster is anonymous in fear of retaliation). Because the tip was anonymous it also might not serve as sufficient cause?

 

[MistyWaters]

Well....just hypothetically speaking, what would be illegal about picking up a cigarette butt or a paper cup that someone leaves behind and testing that? Seems legit to me.

It's not legit in terms of evidence IMO but certainly might be helpful, somewhat of a preview.

 

[Rott Mom]

Wow - only 25 members right now on this thread - Sadly.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Oh the police state this could cause and privacy issues. It would work out of pure ostracism of people who didn't comply with "voluntary spit samples". You know with human nature being what it it is even on a forum posting.

I hate to say it, but I would only volunteer​ my DNA if I'm 100% confident that the sample would be protected. With all the data breaches now, I'm dubious about how info is stored and how it's maintained without contaminating it.

And I also thought about how it would appear if I didn't comply. People who subscribe to the "you shouldn't have anything to hide if you're innocent camp," would likely doubt and judge me, and in a small town, that's nothing to sneeze at.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[MistyWaters]

I hate to say it, but I would only volunteer​ my DNA if I'm 100% confident that the sample would be protected. With all the data breaches now, I'm dubious about how info is stored and how it's maintained without contaminating it.

And I also thought about how it would appear if I didn't comply. People who subscribe to the "you shouldn't have anything to hide if you're innocent camp," would likely doubt and judge me, and in a small town, that's nothing to sneeze at.

The above is just my opinion.

I think more and more people share your opinion as time goes on, especially because DNA can be fabricated from existing samples.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Yesterday I watched an episode of a show called Real Detective. It covered a case from 1984 where an 18-YO girl was murdered. It was a crime of opportunity, they eventually learned. They also learned that the murderer​ went to the family's house or wake to pay his condolences. 😒

I wonder if LE checks on people who show up at funerals or at relatives' houses for wakes. The case in the show I watched happened over 30 years ago. Maybe LE has since started watching things like that as SOP.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder which media report is correct. The new law takes effect July 1st (posted earlier) or in 2018. If it was indeed rolled back to commence July 1st, surely there's a very good reason.

"INDIANAPOLIS — Indiana law enforcement is entering a brave new world where police can obtain and test any Hoosier's DNA profile against crime scene evidence, so long as a prosecutor can show the person probably committed a felony.

Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb on Friday signed into law Senate Enrolled Act 322 requiring police to take a cheek swab DNA sample from every person arrested for a felony, starting in 2018."
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/...cle_c5bb69f0-6d66-5db9-bc2f-3db09d67fccd.html

 

[Maplesyrup]

According to what was posted upstream, the bill requires a felony in order to be swabbed. JMO...I'm not sure a minor traffic offense would qualify, unless there was another law broken at the same time. I.E. probation violation, drug possession, weapons charge, etc that was found during the traffic stop. JMO.

I have watched a real life crime report on TV where detectives suspected someone but had NO DNA specimen. They followed the person at a distance and saw them dispose of a paper coffee cup in a trash can at a construction site. They quickly collected the cup after he walked away and tested it for DNA. It in fact linked him to the crime they were investigating so they knew he was their perp and they pursued other avenues to secure what they needed to arrest and ultimately convict. The DNA off the cup simply comfirmed that he was their guy. Then they knew to be on his trail. Just a thought of what might have to be done if they surmise someone is BG but NO DNA is on file (assuming they have DNA from the crime scene). IMO

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Wow - only 25 members right now on this thread - Sadly.

JMO....
I think some people migrated to the image thread.

 

[everybodhi]

Yesterday I watched an episode of a show called Real Detective. It covered a case from 1984 where an 18-YO girl was murdered. It was a crime of opportunity, they eventually learned. They also learned that the murderer​ went to the family's house or wake to pay his condolences. ��

I wonder if LE checks on people who show up at funerals or at relatives' houses for wakes. The case in the show I watched happened over 30 years ago. Maybe LE has since started watching things like that as SOP.

The above is just my opinion.

LE definitely watch the funerals and wakes, I've read other cases where the killer went to the funeral and also they sometimes join the search party.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

LE definitely watch the funerals and wakes, I've read other cases where the killer went to the funeral and also they sometimes join the search party.

Thanks so much. Since the Delphi killings, most everything I hear about other cases I wind up relating back to Abby and Libby.

Someone here posted a link to a crime in Europe where the murderer assisted in the search. 😨 There was a YouTube documentary about it.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[Elle*Bee]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article9253622.html
2015. Charlotte, NC court upholds DNA evidence on discarded cigarette butt.

 

[her]

I hate to say it, but I would only volunteer​ my DNA if I'm 100% confident that the sample would be protected. With all the data breaches now, I'm dubious about how info is stored and how it's maintained without contaminating it.

And I also thought about how it would appear if I didn't comply. People who subscribe to the "you shouldn't have anything to hide if you're innocent camp," would likely doubt and judge me, and in a small town, that's nothing to sneeze at.

The above is just my opinion.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm sorry if this is not allowed, but I really want to know why the property across from RL's (the Mears) was searched.

I think we all do! My opinion, however, is that it was either searched because a) they were trying to prove the theory of BG removing the girls and taking them to a second location b) they were looking for places where BG might have stashed evidence or c) like many people on the internet (including some members of the media) they mistakenly thought the Mears barn belonged to RL.

 

[Evania]

LE definitely watch the funerals and wakes, I've read other cases where the killer went to the funeral and also they sometimes join the search party.

Yep, I have heard that too. One reason is that they want to hear "insider" knowledge, obviously to gauge if they are suspected. In a case like this where people are trying to guess what LE has or doesn't have, I wouldn't be surprised if he is keeping tabs via being a Facebook "friend" to someone local, following forums such as this one, or is somewhere feigning concern. I've even wondered if he could have posted on here at one time or another. I honestly don't think he is traipsing around without a care in the world. I think he's wondering just like us, "What all do they know?" I sure as heck don't think he's as super confident as he would be if the girls didn't get his voice, an image and possibly the whole crime caught on tape. I bet he had to have a "Doh!" moment when he discovered that out. IMO


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[OldDick1933]

Oh the police state this could cause and privacy issues. It would work out of pure ostracism of people who didn't comply with "voluntary spit samples". You know with human nature being what it it is even on a forum posting.

thank you

 

[Falling Down]

"INDIANAPOLIS – A bill that would require all felony arrestees to submit a DNA sample is headed to the governor’s desk for his final decision.

Senate Bill 322 requires the sample to be taken by a cheek swab along with fingerprints, photographs during the arrest. The DNA will go to through a database, once the authorities have probable cause.

Sen. Brandt Hershman, R-Buck Creek, represents the people of Delphi, Indiana, and he said this type of technology could find the murderer of the two young girls from his district."
http://thestatehousefile.com/bill-requiring-dna-collection-felony-arrest-final-step/31109/

BBM

Subsequent news stories say Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb signed the bill and it goes into effect July 1, 2017.

Won't matter if the perp isn't in a system, or is from out-of-state, unless they're in the national database.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Lost my post. Does anyone remember a pic with lots of police cars near the crime scene? How did they get across the creek? Did the police get the girls out by going to the cemetery or back across the creek? Is there some kind of road on the north of the creek? I have looked but can't find such a picture. Maybe it was in a dream.

IIRC many vehicles were parked at the cemetery and at the treeline of an adjacent field to the north, plus on the other side at the private road to the south. No video was captured of the bodies being removed and baracades were also set up on all the adjacent roads to keep the media and everyone else out.

The photo of numerous parked you might be recalling was taken by media helicopter. Another WS member here linked the 1/2 hr video yesterday iirc but it doesn't contain any overhead footage of processing of the crime scene area or removal of the bodies of the victims. I'm not able to find it but maybe someone else saved the link because it does offer a good broad overview of all the activity that was occurring in the general area.