IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[SomeoneElse333]

Yep definitely most likely a socialpath, amongst many other things (insert bad names here). How anyone can kill innocent children, is something I will never understand /comprehend.


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How anyone can kill period...

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes there was a case in Wisconsin (?), recently where a college student was helping out by turning evidence, and he was murdered. It is dangerous to work with LE and not be in a uniform or have proper backup on short notice. Remember that due to high profile media events the Police, especially, have been targeted and much violence has been directed toward them since Ferguson...and LE was in a very vulnerable spot when all this occurred. I believe they have been positive and tight-lipped for the good of us all, and they deserve much credit, when before now, none was forthcoming. Another reason I applaud the families for remaining true.

You are illustrating why many cases go unsolved, that could be solved. People are afraid of retribution.

 

[Idareyato]

You are illustrating why many cases go unsolved, that could be solved. People are afraid of retribution.

Fear of retribution was a frequent topic of news reports and at least one documentary since the 1980's. It angers me to some degree, but our society has the mentality of "Looking Out For Number One", and each of us have varying shades of conscience to torment us. When the Police look for motive in why a person should come forward to help....and it is done, (Wants to be a hero...etc.) sometimes they use faulty judgement. It tends to alienate the individual, and if the victim is some one close instead of the responder it hurts doubly bad. But it used to anger me that such dismissal could be so prevalent. Maybe I heard some biased news??

 

[DeDee]

Stories of young teen girls, often with behavioural difficulties, lured away from their home by predators on the internet with offers of riches and drugs sadly are all too common. I just don't see any connection to that sort of situation here considering Delphi is such a small community plus Abby and Libby seemed to be responsible, activity and educational oriented teens. However it's possible a stalker knew of their plans that afternoon through online comments. If so, in my opinion they were intentionally targeted without knowing it.

Maybe it began as a kidnapping gone wrong because they stuck together and refused to cooperate, not a kidnapping for ransom but a kidnapping designed to inflict fear into an adult who was working with LE by naming names in the lucrative drug trade? In my imagination, such a scenario would warrant LE to be tight lipped. Solving the crime would also involve pursuing the hierarchy, the leader/s, not necessarily the same person as the actual murderer. That would also make it "a very complex case". MOO

Stories of young teen girls, often with behavioural difficulties, lured away from their home by predators on the internet with offers of riches and drugs sadly are all too common.

I never stated that nor do I believe it happened to the Delphi Daughters. Their families are not poor by any means so they did not need money nor were drugs involved in their being at High Bridge.

they were intentionally targeted without knowing it

The two girls surely did not know it or they would not have gone to High Bridge but what about the one who stayed away that fateful day? The second paragraph is interesting. I have seen no evidence to lead me down the drug trafficking road of revenge to make an adult fearful. I believe the complexity has to do with narrowing the suspects and locating the actual murder scene. The twist has to do with what was done to our girls, unfortunately.

Since, MP feels his Libby put up a fight, she may have been pistol whipped and more. These crimes took time. They were not marched to the final crime scene and shot. I believe a deer sled was involved in transporting, after the murders, and then rolled over onto RLs land, on purpose, and with ill intent, of explicitly implicating him in the crimes knowing his weak propensity to drink and drive. JMO

 

[Burnt Toast]

This tweeted image by PB on Feb. 14 depicts snow on the ground around High Bridge that wasn't present the day the two girls were there. I did not see a High Bridge image on IG with that date.

[video=twitter;831498353343094784]https://twitter.com/pbenson99/status/831498353343094784/photo/1[/video]

the water looks very shallow in places.

 

[Idareyato]

the water looks very shallow in places.

The depth is determined by rain amounts in the region, this being drainage into the big river system. Rain also determines the velocity of the water, and amount passed. It is seasonal with major run-offs.
Looking up stream you can notice the bank erosion from high floods, and the log jam close to the bridge is typical. Beautiful pic by the way.

 

[MistyWaters]

I never stated that nor do I believe it happened to the Delphi Daughters. Their families are not poor by any means so they did not need money nor were drugs involved in their being at High Bridge.



The two girls surely did not know it or they would not have gone to High Bridge but what about the one who stayed away that fateful day? The second paragraph is interesting. I have seen no evidence to lead me down the drug trafficking road of revenge to make an adult fearful. I believe the complexity has to do with narrowing the suspects and locating the actual murder scene. The twist has to do with what was done to our girls, unfortunately.

Since, MP feels his Libby put up a fight, she may have been pistol whipped and more. These crimes took time. They were not marched to the final crime scene and shot. I believe a deer sled was involved in transporting, after the murders, and then rolled over onto RLs land, on purpose, and with ill intent, of explicitly implicating him in the crimes knowing his weak propensity to drink and drive. JMO

My apologies, I quoted your post and then added more possibilities, not actually responding to it verbatim.

But I'm not sure what you mean by the families not being poor. A kidnapping for ransom is very low on my list of possibilities and therefore not my theory.

The grandmother in the Iowa case, quoted by the media, believes the two cousins deaths may be directly related to one of the fathers turning over evidence to LE involving the meth trade. If her theory is correct and if the two cases are indeed connected, enter the drug trade.

Because we don't know the cause of death or the condition of the bodies, how long the crime took is unknown. If they died by gunshot upon fleeing for example, the homicides may have occured very shortly after 2:30pm.

ETA - MP suggesting Libby would've put up a fight, she was strong willed doesn't neccesarily refer to battle. It could also mean she refused to willingly cooperate with BGs intentions. (similar context, when my kids were little every night they put up a fight when it was bedtime, drove me crazy.....)

 

[tuffgongc9]

Since, MP feels his Libby put up a fight, she may have been pistol whipped and more. These crimes took time. They were not marched to the final crime scene and shot. I believe a deer sled was involved in transporting, after the murders, and then rolled over onto RLs land, on purpose, and with ill intent, of explicitly implicating him in the crimes knowing his weak propensity to drink and drive. JMO[/QUOTE]

The second crime scene may be plausible, but it really doesn't make much sense. The most popular theory of 2nd location is the crime taking place in the Mears outbuilding. If that is true, then why move the bodies at all? It makes zero sense to move the bodies and endanger yourself being caught when the whole town is on high alert looking for them or suspicious activity. If it was just to be found, they would have inevitably been found in that small barn. What indication is there that this crime took time? It could have been over 10 minutes after the audio was recorded. Is there any evidence that disputes this?

Framing RL makes as much sense as any other explanation for them coming all the way back to dump the bodies, although still not worth the risk. It would be extremely brazen or plain stupid to move bodies less than a mile just to implicate an old man with no violent history. According to RLs wife, the police have time stamped video of RL in other places during the time that the crime occurred. I highly doubt she would defend him so robustly and publicly if this weren't the case. RL for me is 100% not involved in the criminal act, thought it may be possible that he knows something, but that's it. I would happily admit I was wrong if it meant LE had the evidence to charge him and ultimately solve this, I just don't see it.

Occam's Razor for me. I strongly believe the sight of the crime happened very near to where they were found. I also believe it was a single person mostly acting on opportunity. I would be interested to know if anyone has any statistic on how often more than one person (versus one perpetrator) commit a murder on a minor. I would be surprised if a single perpetrator wasn't the overwhelming majority of cases. MO and not looking at facts, but you would need numerous very sick people.

Many people are thinking of every motive under the sun that this could happen, but the fact of the matter is there aren't many things those girls could have done/seen/heard to warrant MURDERING them. For me, the motive is one psychopath/sociopath plus two beautiful and innocent girls and a small window of opportunity. No drugs or pregnancy or abuse and certainly no occult conspiracy. Again MOO, but I believe that the perpetrator was calm, calculating, and thorough, and may have done it before.

 

[Idareyato]

Being unseasonably warm on the 13th, I believe all the snow had evaporated by then. On Libby's photos taken that day your best judgements can be made.

 

[Daae]

Being unseasonably warm on the 13th, I believe all the snow had evaporated by then. On Libby's photos taken that day your best judgements can be made.

It was not that warm on the 13th. Here are the temperatures from Delphi.


Friday and Saturday following the murders it was very warm.

 

[Lilowlet]

It was not that warm on the 13th. Here are the temperatures from Delphi.
View attachment 117297

Friday and Saturday following the murders it was very warm.

That's not warm. Not in my version of warm feb. I'd be freezing. Imo always goodness! I thought they meant upper sixties mid even.

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[MistyWaters]

Just for the record, it wasn't MP who said Libby would put up a fight, was strong willed, it was the other grandfather, DB.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

 

[Lilowlet]

Just for the record, it wasn't MP who said Libby would put up a fight, was strong willed, it was the other grandfather, DB.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-one-murdered-Indiana-teens-speaks-out.html

Thanks I thought it was MP who said that, the entire time too.

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[CoreyRocks]

The depth is determined by rain amounts in the region, this being drainage into the big river system. Rain also determines the velocity of the water, and amount passed. It is seasonal with major run-offs.
Looking up stream you can notice the bank erosion from high floods, and the log jam close to the bridge is typical. Beautiful pic by the way.

It is a nice picture, but makes me dizzy just looking at that bridge. So high, no railings, rickety, missing planks, partially over water. Yikes. I couldn't and wouldn't even attempt it. One false move.

Our girls were courageous.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

That's not warm. Not in my version of warm feb. I'd be freezing. Imo always goodness! I thought they meant upper sixties mid even.

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Lol.. I guess it's all relative to where you live and what you're used to but anyways there was not that much snow on the ground previously. it doesn't take much much to melt a dusting of snow, and bright Sunshine will melt snow even when it's below freezing. it would not have taken much time at all to melt the little bit of snow there was in the Drone video

 

[Idareyato]

That's not warm. Not in my version of warm feb. I'd be freezing. Imo always goodness! I thought they meant upper sixties mid even.

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I admit the discrepancy. It was a sunny day, perfect for taking pictures in the park. Auto-correct me if my delinquency persists. Sorry.

 

[Lilowlet]

I admit the discrepancy. It was a sunny day, perfect for taking pictures in the park. Auto-correct me if my delinquency persists. Sorry.

No no. It's me really. I'll be honest, I said 60s was warm to me, here I sit outside on a phone 65 degrees, springtime nightfall. In a jacket over a long sleeve, so 40s and sunny is probably warm to others.[emoji6]

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[Evania]

I never stated that nor do I believe it happened to the Delphi Daughters. Their families are not poor by any means so they did not need money nor were drugs involved in their being at High Bridge.



The two girls surely did not know it or they would not have gone to High Bridge but what about the one who stayed away that fateful day? The second paragraph is interesting. I have seen no evidence to lead me down the drug trafficking road of revenge to make an adult fearful. I believe the complexity has to do with narrowing the suspects and locating the actual murder scene. The twist has to do with what was done to our girls, unfortunately.

Since, MP feels his Libby put up a fight, she may have been pistol whipped and more. These crimes took time. They were not marched to the final crime scene and shot. I believe a deer sled was involved in transporting, after the murders, and then rolled over onto RLs land, on purpose, and with ill intent, of explicitly implicating him in the crimes knowing his weak propensity to drink and drive. JMO

Is there a link stating that another girl was originally planning on going with them to the bridge that day? I've seen a few people talk about it, but I haven't been able to come across a news article. If that's true, then that's interesting! Did the other girl have something weird happen that made her back out of the plans? Did she possibly tell anyone through social media about where Abby and Libby were going? In any event, I'm glad she didn't go...I just wish Abby and Libby didn't go either.[emoji25]


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[midwestseeker]

This tweeted image by PB on Feb. 14 depicts snow on the ground around High Bridge that wasn't present the day the two girls were there. I did not see a High Bridge image on IG with that date.

[video=twitter;831498353343094784]https://twitter.com/pbenson99/status/831498353343094784/photo/1[/video]

You are correct it was Twitter. I had been up too late. LOL. Just another curiosity of photos and vids connecting to dates. No way to know when it was taken but oddly posted without comment on Feb 14th

 

[Confusion]

It was not that warm on the 13th. Here are the temperatures from Delphi.
View attachment 117297

Friday and Saturday following the murders it was very warm.

That's warm enough to melt the snow almost every day on your chart. I'm not sure how Indiana is at that time of the year, but that's unseasonably warm here. MOO