IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[Shiressleuth]

Any news from LE on the forensics results that were still to come back a couple of weeks ago?

We do know who was on the bridge at the time don't we? The one witness who saw one other couple and a man in black AFAIK. This would be in addition to BG, LG and AW. So that's 7 persons for LE to trace IMO. Has that been done DWK? The couple could be BG and accomplice but then LE would have said they are looking for a couple and a man in black. So IMO they must have traced them all except BG right? Just trying to get this straight in my head.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Snipped by me for space.

Excellent comment and observations about the difficulty and genreal area of CS.
Well said !

JMO...
<snip>
Yes, the police search was called off at midnight since foul play was not suspected at that time, but MSM reported family and friends kept searching through the night. We don't know where they were searching or if it would have prevented the suspect(s) from returning the girls to the area. RL was supposedly home that night, too, and his little dog likely would have barked, so it would have been riskier to approach the CS from that location. I feel there are too many variables: darkness (even in moonlight), terrain, possible searchers interrupting, awkwardness of transportation (even on a deer sled), neighbors being home, weather conditions (no precipitation forecast from what I recall, but wouldn't the grass and leaves have been wet and slippery from the melting snow making it difficult to maneuver to where the girls were found, and the area did not appear to be disturbed, so it probably didn't have damage from someone losing their balance or slipping or falling into branches.)


It just doesn't make sense to me to take the girls and then bring them back.


JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

It may not make sense to us re a second CS but would it make sense to BG?

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Snipped by me for space.

Excellent comment and observations about the difficulty and genreal area of CS.
Well said !

:tyou:

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Any news from LE on the forensics results that were still to come back a couple of weeks ago?

We do know who was on the bridge at the time don't we? The one witness who saw one other couple and a man in black AFAIK. This would be in addition to BG, LG and AW. So that's 7 persons for LE to trace IMO. Has that been done DWK? The couple could be BG and accomplice but then LE would have said they are looking for a couple and a man in black. So IMO they must have traced them all except BG right? Just trying to get this straight in my head.

RBBM

JMO...
IIRC, this "witness" saw a couple and the "sighting" was in a post on SM which has since been deleted (according to a WS post several (dozen) threads back.) There was no mention of it in MSM AFAIK. The "man in black" was a comment (possibly from MSM) by a peer of Abby and Libby's who heard about it from other peers, but didn't see him herself (this also from WS posts). Neither sighting has been confirmed by LE as of this point and since it isn't confirmed, should be treated as rumor/hearsay, if I'm interpreting WS TOS correctly.
JMO.

 

[Peace777]

Any news from LE on the forensics results that were still to come back a couple of weeks ago?

We do know who was on the bridge at the time don't we? The one witness who saw one other couple and a man in black AFAIK. This would be in addition to BG, LG and AW. So that's 7 persons for LE to trace IMO. Has that been done DWK? The couple could be BG and accomplice but then LE would have said they are looking for a couple and a man in black. So IMO they must have traced them all except BG right? Just trying to get this straight in my head.

What about at the cemetery? A vehicle could have been parked there. And I believe there is a trail through the woods from there that leads to the bridge. RG's videos show this. JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It may not make sense to us re a second CS but would it make sense to BG?

Yes, it would have made sense I think. In a vehicle/under some roof/between some walls where he couldn't be seen/heard any longer with the girls - that would have been reason enough for BG, IMO.
Next question would be: Was it him or an accomplice or both men (if not more than 2) who planned and used a second CS?
Next question we all think of: Why had the RL property been chosen voluntarily / intentionally as a last CS?? Although we have to be something like "thankful" for the place because after all the place could rapidly be found and meant a certain relief to parents/family/friends/police/forensics etc. IMO MOO

 

[DeDee]

The main reason why I discount the "bodies moved" theory is in any murder investigation, locating the scene of death is CRITICALLY important in terms of incriminating crime scene evidence. Early investigation of the death scene is as significant as identifying the suspect/s. A secondary location where the bodies were recovered from proves dead bodies were moved, but is a much lesser crime than murder.

On Feb 14th or very shortly thereafter, investigators and medical examiners would've been able to determine how death occurred and if the bodies had been moved, body positioning (blood pooling/rigor mortis) and by considering ground disturbance, footprints, drag marks etc left in the damp ground. LE has never given even one indication that I've noticed to indicate the homicides occurred anywhere but the area of discovery. Other than asking for people to report vehicles at the Trail Head parking lot between 1 and 5pm on Feb 13th, nothing related to possible sightings in or around out buildings or other suspicious behaviour during late night hours in or around the immediate area. No other area away from the bridge and discovery site has been identified as the primary crime scene and if it had, what would be the reason to keep the location of the homicide a secret?

On the topic of out buildings, while the searches mid March gained media attention, there's an early YouTube video of an interview with LE where it's stated all the outbuildings were searched when the crime was discovered so it's not quite accurate that it took an entire month to have a look inside any of them.

To your theory, do you think LE still hasn't even yet determined the location of the actual murder scene and if so, what are the implications to the crime being solved?

Additionally your comment "The official search was called off at midnight." I wasn't aware of an "official" search on Feb 13th. Do you have a link that supports that to be factual? Thanks.

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The Sheriff called off the LE/FF search at midnight. It has been in the news since he made the decision. [Thank you, Bird of Paradise, for providing insight into the searches via links.]

I possess understanding of livor mortis and the body's natural process following death. There is no way of knowing what data LE has been able to obtain during their investigation. There have been dozens of SWs issued. We are not privy to the reasons for them.

I possess no specific knowledge about where RLs dog stayed during the day or night. I cannot state whether or not RLs dog would have alerted RL to the possibility of intruders.

It is reasonable to believe the entire abduction/killings took place within the immediate area. Therefore, the basis of not taking the two girls to another location is valid. I just do not think whatever was done, was committed in a wide open area. Nor do I believe the girls were taken to an easily accessible location from High Bridge. Hence, searching the High Bridge exterior buildings and barns proved futile. This is only my opinion and is subject to change at any given time.

 

[kstephens98]

This is my recollection as well. Its interesting how much "speculation/rumor" can transform into people believing they are "facts" over time. Unfortunately, too often, this type of misinformation is relied upon by sluethers to help form opinions and theories. JMO.

RBBM

JMO...
IIRC, this "witness" saw a couple and the "sighting" was in a post on SM which has since been deleted (according to a WS post several (dozen) threads back.) There was no mention of it in MSM AFAIK. The "man in black" was a comment (possibly from MSM) by a peer of Abby and Libby's who heard about it from other peers, but didn't see him herself (this also from WS posts). Neither sighting has been confirmed by LE as of this point and since it isn't confirmed, should be treated as rumor/hearsay, if I'm interpreting WS TOS correctly.
JMO.

 

[Alison]

RBBM

JMO...
IIRC, this "witness" saw a couple and the "sighting" was in a post on SM which has since been deleted (according to a WS post several (dozen) threads back.) There was no mention of it in MSM AFAIK. The "man in black" was a comment (possibly from MSM) by a peer of Abby and Libby's who heard about it from other peers, but didn't see him herself (this also from WS posts). Neither sighting has been confirmed by LE as of this point and since it isn't confirmed, should be treated as rumor/hearsay, if I'm interpreting WS TOS correctly.
JMO.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/
MSM link about the woman seeing the couple. Under #2.

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[CoreyRocks]

Any of those 1,000 followers may have thought about the "window open" statement! Kinda scary to be so innocent and the world may not be.

I couldn't find that statement. Please tell me where.

I did notice on last pic someone on the outs, then clicked, lead to snap chat someone left IG knows girls from fire. Small world hmmm. Moo.

 

[Alison]

This is my recollection as well. Its interesting how much "speculation/rumor" can transform into people believing they are "facts" over time. Unfortunately, too often, this type of misinformation is relied upon by sluethers to help form opinions and theories. JMO.

Imo speculation should lead to theories. That's how it should work or nothing would ever get solved. However people need to be able to remain flexible in their opinions until something is proven as fact.

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[Shiressleuth]

It was on the heavy.com news site IIRC with the witness name CME so that was not rumour IIRC. Like the drone mentioned in the search. I will double check. What about the forensics due back? That was mentioned by LE a fortnight ago.
Eta. Thanks Alison . I see you have posted the link here ^^^ and here vvv .

 

[Alison]

It was on the heavy.com news site IIRC with the witness name CME so that was not rumour IIRC. Like the drone mentioned in the search. I will double check. What about the forensics due back? That was mentioned by LE a fortnight ago.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/
I posted it above as well.


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[CoreyRocks]

Good morning All ! Going to refresh my optimism and support our girls by getting a blue and purple tie dye Libby & Abby tee shirt! Saw them available online the other day and hoping they still are! May Today Be The Day. :heartbeat:

I have one and wear it every week and when
people ask about the shirt I get to share their story. The families designed it and money goes to help them. Very well made.

Corrected: actually mine isn't tie-dyed. It is the first one they were selling. Family from Lilo and stitch quote on back. No one left behind.

 

[whiskers]

It's too bad RL's terrier doesn't speak or that LE doesn't speak doglish. It needs to be interviewed. I'd love to know what that little 4 legged friend heard that afternoon. Maybe it's the type of dog that goes in and out via a dog door. Although it's possible he/she went with RL into Lafayette that afternoon.

It's also possible that where the girls were found is too far away from the main house for a dog to hear anything.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

RBBM

JMO...
IIRC, this "witness" saw a couple and the "sighting" was in a post on SM which has since been deleted (according to a WS post several (dozen) threads back.) There was no mention of it in MSM AFAIK. The "man in black" was a comment (possibly from MSM) by a peer of Abby and Libby's who heard about it from other peers, but didn't see him herself (this also from WS posts). Neither sighting has been confirmed by LE as of this point and since it isn't confirmed, should be treated as rumor/hearsay, if I'm interpreting WS TOS correctly.
JMO.

Okay, maybe we hear of something and shut our mouth because of TOS and because there would be no basis to sleuth more re "man in black" or similar. Though my brain would like to work (IF at all) otherwise. "Man in black, stranger in that area, unfriendly, replied no greeting" I would inevitably connect with MSM news about some guy who was wearing black pants and was impersonating an official guardian .....

kittycat posted:
http://www.abc57.com/story/35501616/alleged-police-impersonator-at-kingsbury-fish-and-wildlife

 

[Evania]

RBBM

JMO...
IIRC, this "witness" saw a couple and the "sighting" was in a post on SM which has since been deleted (according to a WS post several (dozen) threads back.) There was no mention of it in MSM AFAIK. The "man in black" was a comment (possibly from MSM) by a peer of Abby and Libby's who heard about it from other peers, but didn't see him herself (this also from WS posts). Neither sighting has been confirmed by LE as of this point and since it isn't confirmed, should be treated as rumor/hearsay, if I'm interpreting WS TOS correctly.
JMO.

Is there a reference link that explains what all the abbreviations on Web Sleuths means? I know what JMO, IMO, MOO SM and BG means, but what about the others? In particular, I see IIRC,AFAIK and TOS posted off and on and I'm still trying to figure out what some of those stand for. lol

Please don't take this as a snarky post. I'm sincerely trying to better understand.


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[Deleted member 102539]

Is there a reference link that explains what all the abbreviations on Web Sleuths means? I know what JMO, IMO, MOO SM and BG means, but what about the others? In particular, I see IIRC,AFAIK and TOS posted off and on and I'm still trying to figure out what some of those stand for. lol

Please don't take this as a snarky post. I'm sincerely trying to better understand.


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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...iations-and-Acronyms-LIST-ONLY-NO-DISCUSSION/

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/
MSM link about the woman seeing the couple. Under #2.

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JMO...
But it's still referencing a FB post on social media. The woman was not interviewed by the press, nor has LE confirmed/denied it. Still SM rumor per WS TOS as far as I know.