IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[MistyWaters]

Haha..... that is correct, correct and correct.

Any idea what the video featuring the analysis of the data from the cellphone by the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce is about?

Given I offered a media link to prove LE has the cellphone, do you know of a link to the contrary that indicates they don't and the data was only recovered from iCloud?

 

[gliving]

A cellphone doesn't automatically download to iCloud. Sure maybe a professional photographer might preset for instant backup but Libby was only 14 years old. For all we know she downloads her photos to a family computer with a larger storage capacity and they don't use iCloud at all. The only reference to the type of phone that Libby had iirc was that it was a smartphone.

There's absolutely no mention of iCloud associated to this case anywhere that I can find, other than on forums.

iCloud Photo Library
iCloud Photo Library automatically uploads every photo and video you take, making them accessible from your iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, Apple TV, Mac, or PC and on iCloud.com. By storing your entire library safely in iCloud, you’ll have more space on your iPhone to take more great shots. iCloud Photo Sharing makes it easy to show off just the photos and videos you want to just the people you want to see them.

https://www.apple.com/icloud/icloud-drive/

 

[MistyWaters]

iCloud Photo Library
iCloud Photo Library automatically uploads every photo and video you take, making them accessible from your iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, Apple TV, Mac, or PC and on iCloud.com. By storing your entire library safely in iCloud, you’ll have more space on your iPhone to take more great shots. iCloud Photo Sharing makes it easy to show off just the photos and videos you want to just the people you want to see them.

https://www.apple.com/icloud/icloud-drive/

That occurs only if an iCloud account is activated and automatic downloads are enabled. Your quote is iCloud advertising and it's the service you receive only if you choose to use it.

Even if Libby used iCloud, how does that prove her cellphone wasn't retrieved by LE?

 

[Confusion]

iCloud Photo Library
iCloud Photo Library automatically uploads every photo and video you take, making them accessible from your iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, Apple TV, Mac, or PC and on iCloud.com. By storing your entire library safely in iCloud, you’ll have more space on your iPhone to take more great shots. iCloud Photo Sharing makes it easy to show off just the photos and videos you want to just the people you want to see them.

https://www.apple.com/icloud/icloud-drive/

I have no idea if she had her pictures automatically sent to the cloud or not, but I know several people who are into photography and don't want to. They take a lot of pictures and usually delete any they aren't satisfied with before saving the rest. That way they don't end up having to go through hundreds+ online to get rid of those that aren't wanted. Of course, it's always possible that her pictures always turn out and she never has to delete any of them, but it's not likely. Just because you can choose which pictures to save, that doesn't mean she did, anymore than being able to save them automatically means that she did that. I think it's good to keep all options open until we're told otherwise. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

"The audio quality is not great, but police said it’s enough for someone to recognize the person’s voice. Investigators believe the clip was recorded as criminal behavior was about to occur.

“Libby had the presence of mind to turn on her video camera,” Indiana State Police spokesman Capt. David Bursten told reporters, referring to one of the girls, Liberty “Libby” German. “There’s no doubt in our minds that that young lady is a hero.”

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2017/02/murdered-girl-captures-suspects-photo-voice-on-phone/#UbpHYiVukE5gJCxw.99

***
My speculation is that the perpetrator/s weren't aware that Libby's video camera had been turned on nor that it contained the image of BG on the bridge because at some point she placed it in her pocket.

Later she may have tossed it if they attempted to flee and if death was caused by gunfire, perhaps the perp wasn't interested in doing anything other than leaving the scene as quickly as possible without touching the bodies. The battery power was lost about the time the missing persons report was filed.

Other incriminating evidence that the cellphone may contains is no doubt of upmost concern to the perpetrator. MOO

 

[gliving]

That occurs only if an iCloud account is activated and automatic downloads are enabled. Your quote is iCloud advertising and it's the service you receive only if you choose to use it.

Even if Libby used iCloud, how does that prove her cellphone wasn't retrieved by LE?

It doesn't prove or disprove LE has the actual phone. That is all.

We don't know if LE got the BG photo from a cloud or an actual phone. We don't know what the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce found when they investigated Libby and Abby's online history.

I try to remain fact based. All theories are interesting but at the end of the day they are still - just theories.

 

[Peace777]

I have no idea if she had her pictures automatically sent to the cloud or not, but I know several people who are into photography and don't want to. They take a lot of pictures and usually delete any they aren't satisfied with before saving the rest. That way they don't end up having to go through hundreds+ online to get rid of those that aren't wanted. Of course, it's always possible that her pictures always turn out and she never has to delete any of them, but it's not likely. Just because you can choose which pictures to save, that doesn't mean she did, anymore than being able to save them automatically means that she did that. I think it's good to keep all options open until we're told otherwise. MOO

I wonder how many pictures were taken by Liberty or Abby (if she had a phone or I-Pad to take pictures with)? As we've only seen the 2 pics from Libby's phone, the dull grey picture of the bridge with no one on it then the 1 with Abby crossing at some point (no camera in her hand). If there are other pics on the phone they could maybe hold clues also JMO. Didn't MP say that's why the girls went to the bridge that day was to take pictures? Just wondering out loud.

 

[asyousay]

I thought I would check in and I can still see no arrest

I just hate the thought of Libby not getting justice when she managed to get her killer on audio and his photo.

 

[MistyWaters]

It doesn't prove or disprove LE has the actual phone. That is all.

We don't know if LE got the BG photo from a cloud or an actual phone. We don't know what the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce found when they investigated Libby and Abby's online history.

I try to remain fact based. All theories are interesting but at the end of the day they are still - just theories.

The video of the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce mentions nothing about investigating online history. It demonstrates the forensic procedure that was used to obtain data from the cellphone. That's as fact based as it gets IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

The retrieval of the cellphone is significant in my opinion because it may contain other critical information, for example if either of the girls were being stalked through Facebook or other apps and the murder was preplanned and intentional.

I wonder that because LE asked to look at this man's cell phone. Maybe to check the MAC address? I don't know, but it does appear LE is also interested in the cellphones of people they question, as they follow leads.

"One Flora, Ind. resident said he doesn’t know why, but police asked if they could question him Thursday.

He told 24-Hour News 8 he agreed to a cotton swab test and let police search his phone before they let him go.

The man said police asked, “if I was out on the trails and if I knew the two girls.”

He said he was not on the trails Monday afternoon."

http://wishtv.com/2017/02/16/police-question-multiple-people-in-delphi-girls-murders/

 

[gliving]

The video of the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce mentions nothing about investigating online history. It demonstrates the forensic procedure that was used to obtain data from the cellphone. That's as fact based as it gets IMO.

The video describes the many many tools they have to find cyber crimes against children, stating they usually investigate child *advertiser censored* and seduction. They do show one example of obtaining data from a phone. hth!

https://www.icactaskforce.org/

"The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force Program is a national network ​of 61 coordinated task forces representing over 3,500 federal, state, and local law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies. These agencies are continually engaged in proactive and reactive investigations and prosecutions of persons involved in child abuse and exploitation involving the internet."

A link to the video.

http://www.wow.com/video/590202f5955a31380f55a1aa

 

[MistyWaters]

The video describes the many many tools they have to find cyber crimes against children, stating they usually investigate child *advertiser censored* and seduction. They do show one example of obtaining data from a phone. hth!

https://www.icactaskforce.org/

"The Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force Program is a national network ​of 61 coordinated task forces representing over 3,500 federal, state, and local law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies. These agencies are continually engaged in proactive and reactive investigations and prosecutions of persons involved in child abuse and exploitation involving the internet."

A link to the video.

http://www.wow.com/video/590202f5955a31380f55a1aa

I really don't know what more I can say. It's states very clearly the involvement of the Taskforce pertaining to the photo and the audio "pulled off Libby German's cellphone by this team...."

 

[mtnlites]

Jethro, one thing puzzles me about your statement.

If they don't have the phone, where would the vid of BG come from? Someone uploaded to a cloud?

Via my settings, every video and picture I take (whether for snapchat, instagram, text, etc) is automatically backed up in the cloud which can then be accessed either on my phone or tablet or online. Anyone with the password can access those. Libby could have had her settings to back up her activities to the cloud as well.

 

[mtnlites]

That occurs only if an iCloud account is activated and automatic downloads are enabled. Your quote is iCloud advertising and it's the service you receive only if you choose to use it.

Even if Libby used iCloud, how does that prove her cellphone wasn't retrieved by LE?

There are other ways to automatically back up media, too, besides the cloud: dropbox, one drive, google photos, etc. My tablet actually offers its own service through Android. Not necessary to have an icloud account for auto backups.

I do not believe the phone has been retrieved. I have read the articles and considered the quotes but they do not read in that way to me. Saying that the video or picture came from the phone could just as likely mean it was retrieved through the phone's memory or backup system, imo.

 

[gliving]

Via my settings, every video and picture I take (whether for snapchat, instagram, text, etc) is automatically backed up in the cloud which can then be accessed either on my phone or tablet or online. Anyone with the password can access those. Libby could have had her settings to back up her activities to the cloud as well.

Agreed! A cloud is a backup system for your phone (or other devices) It is synced to your phone, basically part of your phone's operating system. If you retrieve photos from the cloud, they originated from your device.

 

[Shiressleuth]

<modsnip> Snapchat offers the exact time a snap was posted to the story, if it was posted the previous day.

If it was a recent post it simply tells me how many hours ago it was posted, which is not exact.

Also, someone posted that only friends can access your Snapchat, and while it's true that only friends you choose to send snaps to can see them, the Snapchat "story" can technically be accessed by others.

After you post a story you can bring up who has viewed it. Your story disappears after (I believe) 24 hours and after that you can't see who has viewed the story. LE may have a way around that though.

Now, you do need to add someone to your Snapchat contacts in order to see their story, but they don't have to add you back.

You can add someone by phone number, by username, or if they are nearby (in which case both people would have to open their Snapchat apps to "find each other"). The reason I'm saying this is because there are often random people who add me by username who I don't know. They are likely looking for another friend with a similar username. There are 4 people on the list in the attachment that I've never heard of before

Once someone adds you, you can block them, but IMO the Snapchat ui makes it complicated to find that option.

It's possible that BG or associates did have access to Libby's story - do we know if she posted it there for all her Snapchat contacts to see? Or, did she sent the pic of Abby to a select list of contacts directly?<modsnip>


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So my question was how did DM know that pic time was 02.07 on the day they disappeared? Who told them because it wasn't LE cos they didn't know?

 

[MistyWaters]

I have to admit I'm baffled. Am I watching a different video than the rest of you?

One thing's for sure, in a case like this where very little information is released, it wasn't by sheer chance the the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce arranged the interview with the media.

LE wants the general public (who at this time also includes anyone involved in this crime) to know they have Libby's cellphone. The information released in that interview was intentional. MOO

Aside from dozens of references by the media present at the Press Conference Feb 22nd all wording their reports exactly the same, the audio was " retrieved from the cellphone" now we also know it was retrieved by a very specialized unit.

Shouldn't that be a good thing if it provided additional evidence by which to eventually convict the perp? Complete forensic evidence from the actual cellphone is far stronger than a video downloaded to iCloud.

We all want the same thing I think, for the killer/s to be caught?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Indeed, LE only releases to the public what they want us to know and that's the way it should be. I wonder if past entertainment type shows that thrived on tragedy (such as Nancy Grace) have increased people's expectations in general.

On the topic of the search, early on LE was also under fire for an Amber Alert not being called. Based on what little we know, my theory is the deaths occurred where the bodies were discovered and prior to the missing report being filed.

“Even if we would have put an Amber Alert out, it wouldn’t have done this case any good,” Riley said at a press conference. “The short period of time and the location where the bodies were found, it would not have helped us in finding them.”
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

And from the Petition to Seal Autopsy Report:
On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. ]2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-47&styleid=21

BBM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I don't know how LE can say this unless TOD was before 05.30 p.m.

 

[MistyWaters]

So my question was how did DM know that pic time was 02.07 on the day they disappeared? Who told them because it wasn't LE cos they didn't know?

All we know is Sgt Riley didn't know on Feb 16th, the day the CNN show was aired. That doesn't necessarily mean LE still don't know.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't know how LE can say this unless TOD was before 05.30 p.m.

The clock on any date date including Feb 13th runs until midnight.

If you're referring to how does anyone know when death occurred, that's one of the purposes of the autopsy. By the statement that death occurred on feb 13th, their medical findings revealed it occurred before midnight.