MistyWaters
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Excellent reply!
IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60
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Excellent reply!
mtnlites
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As far as I know, this is not something that has been addressed in MSM so it is off limits for discussion.
margarita25
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My theory:
1. Seasoned, experienced rapist and murderer. Age 50s + (maaaybe 40s). Not sure of his residential location, whether in the vicinty, or not (traveling, trucker, etc or IK type of killer)...I'll guess a couple hours out, if not a traveler.
2. Took the day, Feb 13th, to fullfill his sick desires. Perhaps planned, anticipated. Or not. Working in the area (also comfortable with bridge/heights) vs took the day to abduct?
3. Has knowledge/personal ties to the Bridge/Delphi (childhood, family, friends, recreation or work...this is my big question too...why delphi.)
4. Hunter, fisherman.
5. Was a random predator to the girls imo.
6. Had been there in the woods waiting, waiting for a female victim, maybe adult, maybe teen or child.
7. Saw the girls while they were on the trail.
8. Followed them. Stalked them. The girls noticed.
9. On the trails, maybe shortly short of the bridge he yells at them, maybe chases them onto the bridge, or they go there to escape him. (Snap).
10. He confidently follows/chases them onto the bridge. (Snap).
11. He pulls a gun, and either marches them down to the location where they were found, or he chases them from the bridge all the way to that location (they tried to run/swim across). They are tied up/restrained, maybe gagged or duct tape over their mouths. Maybe tied together, maybe one had that task. He has a kill kit. The white poking out is rope. He has a gun (9mm/.40/.45..) secured via body holster. Wearing brown suede gloves, camo baseball cap, blue jeans and a blue nylon windbreaker. Not sure on shoes or attire under windbreaker. Ammo pouch/fannypack/bumbag. He has a light colored mustache and goatee, maybe salt and pepper. Maybe a mullet. His voice is smooth and confident to me.
22. One or both are sexually assaulted.
23. As for COD could be anything imo, knife, strangulation (manual or ligature), bft, drowning or even gunshot. Perhaps a combination of these occurred.
24. The crimes are committed fairly quickly.
25. Hes out of dodge by darkness.
26. He's parked over yonder alongside the road.
MOO
Feel free to pokes holes/disagree!
Who IS BG!?
PS: I remember when Lizzie and Lyric were found, it was the most members I'd seen here up to date at that time, hundreds...(The Boston Marathon (scanner) and Live FB murders thread also had a lot of members and guests) anyway, it was a big day and sad day here when Lizzie and Lyric were found (their abducton was just before my time here)...Point is When and If either or both of their cases are solved we are going to have a HUGE PARTY in the jury room. It will never bring these precious girls back but at least these predator(s) will be off the street, and they can be accountable. Everyone needs this, LE, the public, their families.
This is one of those cases where I wake up every day and hope they caught this guy. I know you guys understand.
(Wow, 1 person in here right now.)
OK jumping off my own post. I think there's a hole/crease/dip in the top of his camo baseball cap. Maybe like those bigger harder ones from the truck stop, just popped in my head.
Then there's this possible duffle bag....
And where did he dispose of his tainted clothing, etc?
It seems like they they think he might have initially been a vagrant on foot (hitchhiking), or a trucker. I think he maybe had a vehicle along the highway treeline obscured from view, behind trees yet still adjacent/parallel? Maybe a pickup truck, van or suv? Down a trail or the creek, if not the cemetery. Needs an easy fast exit.
1. Seasoned, experienced rapist and murderer. Age 50s + (maaaybe 40s). Not sure of his residential location, whether in the vicinty, or not (traveling, trucker, etc or IK type of killer)...I'll guess a couple hours out, if not a traveler.
2. Took the day, Feb 13th, to fullfill his sick desires. Perhaps planned, anticipated. Or not. Working in the area (also comfortable with bridge/heights) vs took the day to abduct?
3. Has knowledge/personal ties to the Bridge/Delphi (childhood, family, friends, recreation or work...this is my big question too...why delphi.)
4. Hunter, fisherman.
5. Was a random predator to the girls imo.
6. Had been there in the woods waiting, waiting for a female victim, maybe adult, maybe teen or child.
7. Saw the girls while they were on the trail.
8. Followed them. Stalked them. The girls noticed.
9. On the trails, maybe shortly short of the bridge he yells at them, maybe chases them onto the bridge, or they go there to escape him. (Snap).
10. He confidently follows/chases them onto the bridge. (Snap).
11. He pulls a gun, and either marches them down to the location where they were found, or he chases them from the bridge all the way to that location (they tried to run/swim across). They are tied up/restrained, maybe gagged or duct tape over their mouths. Maybe tied together, maybe one had that task. He has a kill kit. The white poking out is rope. He has a gun (9mm/.40/.45..) secured via body holster. Wearing brown suede gloves, camo baseball cap, blue jeans and a blue nylon windbreaker. Not sure on shoes or attire under windbreaker. Ammo pouch/fannypack/bumbag. He has a light colored mustache and goatee, maybe salt and pepper. Maybe a mullet. His voice is smooth and confident to me.
22. One or both are sexually assaulted.
23. As for COD could be anything imo, knife, strangulation (manual or ligature), bft, drowning or even gunshot. Perhaps a combination of these occurred.
24. The crimes are committed fairly quickly.
25. Hes out of dodge by darkness.
26. He's parked over yonder alongside the road.
MOO
Feel free to pokes holes/disagree!
Who IS BG!?
PS: I remember when Lizzie and Lyric were found, it was the most members I'd seen here up to date at that time, hundreds...(The Boston Marathon (scanner) and Live FB murders thread also had a lot of members and guests) anyway, it was a big day and sad day here when Lizzie and Lyric were found (their abducton was just before my time here)...Point is When and If either or both of their cases are solved we are going to have a HUGE PARTY in the jury room. It will never bring these precious girls back but at least these predator(s) will be off the street, and they can be accountable. Everyone needs this, LE, the public, their families.
This is one of those cases where I wake up every day and hope they caught this guy. I know you guys understand.
(Wow, 1 person in here right now.)
OK jumping off my own post. I think there's a hole/crease/dip in the top of his camo baseball cap. Maybe like those bigger harder ones from the truck stop, just popped in my head.
Then there's this possible duffle bag....
And where did he dispose of his tainted clothing, etc?
It seems like they they think he might have initially been a vagrant on foot (hitchhiking), or a trucker. I think he maybe had a vehicle along the highway treeline obscured from view, behind trees yet still adjacent/parallel? Maybe a pickup truck, van or suv? Down a trail or the creek, if not the cemetery. Needs an easy fast exit.
margarita25
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Maybe he has totally different MOs like TK?
margarita25
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Completely opposite and juxtapostional theories, that's why I love this place, will be really interesting to see how this turns out. One thing theres no denying, he's a murderer..
margarita25
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If I had to go with a second theiry, it's an online connection, not discuss able via TOS but it goes back to the early days here and recent recreational activity of the victim(s). If this is pushing it TOS wise please deete, apologies.
margarita25
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A main theory would normally include someone known to the family or closeby, like a neighbor, uncle, etc, but considering the perp is still out there I keep reverting back to theory of random predator.
Shiressleuth
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So here's my understanding. For us to know that pic was taken at 02.07 p.m. then someone must have viewed it before an hour had passed right? So someone viewing it at 02.30 would see the time showing as 23 minutes ago. Therefore for the DM or anyone to know that time they would have had to have spoken to someone who viewed that photo in under the first hour. So is it possible for LE to know who viewed that photo before 03.06 p.m. ? LE didn't know the time of the pic but DM and at least one other person knew that day, if not many more knew who viewed it in that hour. Who viewed it between 02.07 and 02.30 when BG appeared?
Would it help knowing who saw that pic and when? I think so.
This is, after all dubbed the "Snapchat Murders" so does SC hold the key?
Shiressleuth
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They met BG. Was that random or planned is the crucial thing. He was approaching across the bridge towards them and was 80 feet away. Why didn't they run? Why wait at the end of that bridge. Was there another person under the bridge in a vehicle? This was 02.30 p.m. just 23 minutes after the pics when no one was in sight either end of the bridge based on the evidence of the SC photos. How long does it take to walk across that bridge?
10 - 20 minutes. They had to have seen him coming right?
I often think that maybe this is a guy one or both of them have seen before, but don't necessarily know. They may not know his name, but maybe have a name for him. (Of course, if my theory is correct one or both may have made an off-hand remark about him to someone else and I'm sure LE has talked to most of their friends and classmates.) Maybe the video of BG was started innocently and Liberty put her phone in her pocket inadvertently. If there was an immediate fear or sense of danger a 911 call might have been made?
D
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First of all my thoughts are for all those family and friends who have lost two special little girls at the hands of an unknown person/s it is tragic.
To me it is obvious that LE are only releasing the information they need to release and need help with. With reference to the voice recording we can only assume they have done the linguistics studied the dielec and will have some idea of where the voice originates from. No doubt they will have tried to match it to all known male voices which ever way they can.
Does the voice belong to the video? Non of us know
Does the Video belong to the Voice? Non of us know
Personally I can't see this guy being a transient or just passing through. I think he knew the area and knew it well, he appeared to be brazen - broad daylight and not one but two victims. I think he was authoritative, stern and knew exactly where he was going.
On a side note I try to think of motive and am pondering if the girls saw something or witnessed something they weren't meant to see therefore the motive for murdering two youngsters was to ensure whatever they saw or heard was kept silent.
Non of us know how the girls were murdered or even if they were murdered in the same way as each other.
Non of us know if they were murdered where they were found or later moved to where they were found.
I still don't understand why the search was called off on the first evening of them missing. For all we know they could have still been alive and placed where they were found between the end of the 1st evenings search on the 13th and the beginning of the next day's search on 14th .
We don't know anything that LE don't want us to know nor should we. LE will go out to the public when they need our help. For all we know they have it all sewn up and simply just crossing the T's and dotting the I's.
All IMPO
KR
Reacher
To me it is obvious that LE are only releasing the information they need to release and need help with. With reference to the voice recording we can only assume they have done the linguistics studied the dielec and will have some idea of where the voice originates from. No doubt they will have tried to match it to all known male voices which ever way they can.
Does the voice belong to the video? Non of us know
Does the Video belong to the Voice? Non of us know
Personally I can't see this guy being a transient or just passing through. I think he knew the area and knew it well, he appeared to be brazen - broad daylight and not one but two victims. I think he was authoritative, stern and knew exactly where he was going.
On a side note I try to think of motive and am pondering if the girls saw something or witnessed something they weren't meant to see therefore the motive for murdering two youngsters was to ensure whatever they saw or heard was kept silent.
Non of us know how the girls were murdered or even if they were murdered in the same way as each other.
Non of us know if they were murdered where they were found or later moved to where they were found.
I still don't understand why the search was called off on the first evening of them missing. For all we know they could have still been alive and placed where they were found between the end of the 1st evenings search on the 13th and the beginning of the next day's search on 14th .
We don't know anything that LE don't want us to know nor should we. LE will go out to the public when they need our help. For all we know they have it all sewn up and simply just crossing the T's and dotting the I's.
All IMPO
KR
Reacher
MistyWaters
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My understanding of SnapChat is the photos of any one user can only be viewed by others who are listed as friends. It's not a public app where anyone can see everyone's photos. Maybe someone might confirm this?
The cellphone forensics conducted by the Internet Crimes Against Children Taskforce would involve determining who had programmed access to any of the online activity. It was likely a very important component of searching for evidence.
Lilowlet
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OT ( https://mobile.twitter.com/TBInvest...0?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet )
Amber alert my area busy w kids if anyone has time to post for me in proper place I'll delete this post in a few so mods don't have more work load Tia)
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Amber alert my area busy w kids if anyone has time to post for me in proper place I'll delete this post in a few so mods don't have more work load Tia)
Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk
D
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My understanding of Snap chat is that it is a way of talking in pictures rather than words. The friends or recipients it was sent to can view the photo or video for up to 10 seconds once they open the alert then it self destructs.
Apparently there are ways of retrieving the deleted self destructive messages but this is for the experts in mobile information retrieval land who have papers printed on the web
KR
Reacher
eastcoasterinco
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<modsnip> Snapchat offers the exact time a snap was posted to the story, if it was posted the previous day.
If it was a recent post it simply tells me how many hours ago it was posted, which is not exact.
Also, someone posted that only friends can access your Snapchat, and while it's true that only friends you choose to send snaps to can see them, the Snapchat "story" can technically be accessed by others.
After you post a story you can bring up who has viewed it. Your story disappears after (I believe) 24 hours and after that you can't see who has viewed the story. LE may have a way around that though.
Now, you do need to add someone to your Snapchat contacts in order to see their story, but they don't have to add you back.
You can add someone by phone number, by username, or if they are nearby (in which case both people would have to open their Snapchat apps to "find each other"). The reason I'm saying this is because there are often random people who add me by username who I don't know. They are likely looking for another friend with a similar username. There are 4 people on the list in the attachment that I've never heard of before
Once someone adds you, you can block them, but IMO the Snapchat ui makes it complicated to find that option.
It's possible that BG or associates did have access to Libby's story - do we know if she posted it there for all her Snapchat contacts to see? Or, did she sent the pic of Abby to a select list of contacts directly?<modsnip>
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MistyWaters
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Indeed, LE only releases to the public what they want us to know and that's the way it should be. I wonder if past entertainment type shows that thrived on tragedy (such as Nancy Grace) have increased people's expectations in general.
On the topic of the search, early on LE was also under fire for an Amber Alert not being called. Based on what little we know, my theory is the deaths occurred where the bodies were discovered and prior to the missing report being filed.
Even if we would have put an Amber Alert out, it wouldnt have done this case any good, Riley said at a press conference. The short period of time and the location where the bodies were found, it would not have helped us in finding them.
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/
And from the Petition to Seal Autopsy Report:
On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. ]2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings. 4) The details related to the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German, if they remain confidential, make it easier for investigators to recognize a false confession as it is improbable for an innocent person to accurately describe the details of the deaths without personal knowledge. 5) Investigators are able to maintain a tactical advantage when speaking with a suspect if the manner and mechanism of the deaths of Ms. Williams and Ms. German are not made public.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-14-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-47&styleid=21
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Ember123
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Perhaps he intended to whisk them away in his car which was parked "down the hill" but upon nearing it they took off running, he grabbed one of them, the other returned hoping she could talk him into letting the other free but they all ended up at the kill site where he killed both and took off.
Bird of Paradise
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Misty, here are two articles that use the exact wording.
(Map people can you enlighten us why the area is considered "just outside" and not Delphi proper.)
Liberty "Libby" German, 14, and Abigail "Abby" Williams,13, were reported missing Monday afternoon after they were dropped off to go hiking near the Monon High Bridge just outside of Delphi.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens
Where the two bodies were found near Delphi, Indiana
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...the-two-bodies-were-found-near-delphi-indiana
(Map people can you enlighten us why the area is considered "just outside" and not Delphi proper.)
Liberty "Libby" German, 14, and Abigail "Abby" Williams,13, were reported missing Monday afternoon after they were dropped off to go hiking near the Monon High Bridge just outside of Delphi.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens
Where the two bodies were found near Delphi, Indiana
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...the-two-bodies-were-found-near-delphi-indiana
Jax49
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Snipped for space.
The area where the girls were found is outside the city limits of Delphi. It is in Deer Creek Township.
ETA: I think the name caused some of the original confusion when people thought the girls were found in the water. LE said they were found in Deer Creek, but meant Deer Creek Township, imo.
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