IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[Crwhitlock]

Unless it was a revenge killing. Payback for someone in either families.

Or perhaps someone needed them dead for a reason and BG offered to help out. A hit man of sorts.

It wasn't a robbery. It wasn't a gang war. It wasn't a drive by stray bullet. It wasn't a bar fight that escalated. Yeah I guess it could have been a "hit" <modsnip>. <modsnip> David Berkowitz, "Son of Sam", never made any physical contact with his victims yet his murders were sexually motivated. He would "pleasure himself" after the killings by reliving the crime and the power it made him feel. Prior to killing, he was an arsonist, and after starting the fires he would watch from a distance and "pleasure himself" again at the power he felt from it. Human beings are very sexual creatures, much more than we realize. I don't know of a serial killer in history who wasn't sexually motivated. I'm not saying BG is a serial killer, but he's cut from the same cloth. if he isn't caught he will likely become one eventually. Hopefully it doesn't take that happening to catch him.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Just following along a bit
My theory so far is that he doesn't live in the area or he would definitely be recognized by now. So if he's not in the area, how did he know about the bridge? Retaliation of some sort? and How did he commit this with passerby's out there? Was there a lookout? Just musings.



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[Area52]

Something that has bothered me for many weeks regarding the search on the morning of February 14, when the bodies of the girls were discovered. I went back today and listened again to the Law Enforcement press conference from February 22. When FBI Asst. Special Agent Greg Massa speaks to the media (about 13.30 minutes in) he states that "an FBI Agent participated in the search". So my question is why was the FBI called in BEFORE the bodies were discovered???? Had the police already accessed the audio or video from the cloud? We're one of the girls family members able to access the to audio and video and turned it over to the Police before the search began? On the morning of 2/14, the girls were considered missing at that point, Just doesn't make sense to me that the FBI would be involved when it was a "search" as opposed to a homocide investigation. Any thoughts????

The video of the Law Enforcement Press Conference can be seen on RTV6 ( YouTube) from 2/22/17 ( And I know what you're thinking and you're right! I don't know how to copy and paste!) Sorry

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Just following along a bit
My theory so far is that he doesn't live in the area or he would definitely be recognized by now. So if he's not in the area, how did he know about the bridge? Retaliation of some sort? and How did he commit this with passerby's out there? Was there a lookout? Just musings.



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JMO...
We do not know how many people were at the bridge that afternoon nor how many may have seen something seemingly innocent at the time and later reported it to LE when LE made it known they wanted to talk to anyone who was on the trails/bridge on February 13.
He possibly could have known about the bridge/creek if he fishes, hikes, is a railroad bridge enthusiast, grew up in the area and has since moved, has or had family or friends in the area, used to vacation around there....
With the information we have, which isn't much, it's equally as likely he worked alone as it is he had one or more accomplices. I could see this crime having been committed just as easily either solo or with assistance.
JMO.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Something that has bothered me for many weeks regarding the search on the morning of February 14, when the bodies of the girls were discovered. I went back today and listened again to the Law Enforcement press conference from February 22. When FBI Asst. Special Agent Greg Massa speaks to the media (about 13.30 minutes in) he states that "an FBI Agent participated in the search". So my question is why was the FBI called in BEFORE the bodies were discovered???? Had the police already accessed the audio or video from the cloud? We're one of the girls family members able to access the to audio and video and turned it over to the Police before the search began? On the morning of 2/14, the girls were considered missing at that point, Just doesn't make sense to me that the FBI would be involved when it was a "search" as opposed to a homocide investigation. Any thoughts????

The video of the Law Enforcement Press Conference can be seen on RTV6 ( YouTube) from 2/22/17 ( And I know what you're thinking and you're right! I don't know how to copy and paste!) Sorry

As I'm not able to locate posts or msm to back up my remarks, please consider them MOO.

There is an FBI field office near Delphi and an FBI agent that lives in Delphi was a volunteer in the original search.

I believe FBI involvement evolved from the Fbi resident's participation in search of feb 13/14.

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[Crwhitlock]

JMO I think he is an ORGANIZED killer and was prepared. Look at the lumpiness under his jacket, (even under what appears to be his hat) all bulging with mysterious stuff...some even say they see a gun outlined under his jacket (I can see what appears to be something too, probably a gun). I think he had all kinds of tools..a kill kit on him. I dont think he specifically stalked them out, targeted them. I think he prepared himself to kill any woman or women? he encountered that day that fit his "type" of victim. He laid in wait like a predator, filled with giddy excitement of what would come his way, then pounced. All JMO. I also think he is an organized killer because they tend to not get caught as much as unorganized ones.

I can understand that. Not all SKs are totally organized or disorganized. Many have tendencies of both. I agree he was definitely out there that day "trolling" for victims. Something he probably spends the vast majority of his time doing. He wasn't bird watching and decided to put the binoculars down and kill some kids. I don't think a totally organized killer would have done what BG did though. It was extremely brazen and risky. Broad daylight in a totally visible area. It was simply luck no one came along and saw him in the middle of it. Granted he could have scouted and analyzed how many people came by on an average monday afternoon and decided the odds of someone passing by were very small. A full abduction would have been the route a completely organized killer would have taken I think. There was an access road directly below that bridge, getting them into a vehicle would have been very easy. Had he done that the girls likely would be missing persons to this day.

 

[Idareyato]

we don't know that the crime was sexual in nature. i personally do not think it was. I think things escalated very quickly and that the killer was likely home by the time their ride arrived. i would surprised if he was not a local.

Has anyone made a chart with headings such as, 1.Unorganized Killer 2. Experienced Killer 3. Random Attack 4. Planned AttackHas anyone else created a tabular profile for possibilities? What I mean is a chart with 5. Targeted Victims 6. Any Possible Victim. [then another category] MOTIVE: 1. Sexual 2. Instinctual 3. Vengeful 4. Other Reasons (idolizes serial killers) 5. Robbery (?) 6. Spite.---Just with these broken down and tracked offers a wide field of vision for our complication on opinions, and why we usually go with our gut instinct. But LE has heard complaints of going after one suspect and discarding all else in the past with other cases. So yeah they are holding cards tight so as not to jeopardize their own defense. But with all the possibilities even when one statistic says in 80 per cent of the crimes the victims knew their killer, the 20 per cent working here is hard to manage. So how do other people judge which theory best fits, with no shown evidence of the Killer's particular quirks or habits? Wondering outloud!

 

[Hazelnutty]

Has anyone made a chart with headings such as, 1.Unorganized Killer 2. Experienced Killer 3. Random Attack 4. Planned AttackHas anyone else created a tabular profile for possibilities? What I mean is a chart with 5. Targeted Victims 6. Any Possible Victim. [then another category] MOTIVE: 1. Sexual 2. Instinctual 3. Vengeful 4. Other Reasons (idolizes serial killers) 5. Robbery (?) 6. Spite.---Just with these broken down and tracked offers a wide field of vision for our complication on opinions, and why we usually go with our gut instinct. But LE has heard complaints of going after one suspect and discarding all else in the past with other cases. So yeah they are holding cards tight so as not to jeopardize their own defense. But with all the possibilities even when one statistic says in 80 per cent of the crimes the victims knew their killer, the 20 per cent working here is hard to manage. So how do other people judge which theory best fits, with no shown evidence of the Killer's particular quirks or habits? Wondering outloud!

2, 5 & 3/6 [emoji22]

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[DeDee]

Something that has bothered me for many weeks regarding the search on the morning of February 14, when the bodies of the girls were discovered. I went back today and listened again to the Law Enforcement press conference from February 22. When FBI Asst. Special Agent Greg Massa speaks to the media (about 13.30 minutes in) he states that "an FBI Agent participated in the search". So my question is why was the FBI called in BEFORE the bodies were discovered???? Had the police already accessed the audio or video from the cloud? We're one of the girls family members able to access the to audio and video and turned it over to the Police before the search began? On the morning of 2/14, the girls were considered missing at that point, Just doesn't make sense to me that the FBI would be involved when it was a "search" as opposed to a homocide investigation. Any thoughts????

The video of the Law Enforcement Press Conference can be seen on RTV6 ( YouTube) from 2/22/17 ( And I know what you're thinking and you're right! I don't know how to copy and paste!) Sorry

Your keen observance is recognized. Several of us have wondered about the FBIs early presence. If a family member was able to access Liberty's data via a cloud, why call off the search at midnight? Why did a family member state that the girls may have gone to Abby's brother's home? We are missing pieces of the puzzle and this is one of them.

 

[Jax49]

As I'm not able to locate posts or msm to back up my remarks, please consider them MOO.

There is an FBI field office near Delphi and an FBI agent that lives in Delphi was a volunteer in the original search.

I believe FBI involvement evolved from the Fbi resident's participation in search of feb 13/14.

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I found a discussion about the first FBI agent being a local volunteer, back in thread 12.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-12&p=13182175#post13182175

 

[Hazelnutty]

I found a discussion about the first FBI agent being a local volunteer, back in thread 12.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-12&p=13182175#post13182175

Thanks! You're quick. [emoji258]

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[Deleted member 172065]

<modsnip>

I hear you. It usu is sexually motivated. But then again, the Pike County (8) murders in OH were a hit. So I'm still open to it. A poster upthread thought a relative had helped LE. I need to find the post...

 

[Area52]

I found a discussion about the first FBI agent being a local volunteer, back in thread 12.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-12&p=13182175#post13182175

Thanks Jax and Hazelnutty. I missed that. Now it makes more sense to me:blushing:

 

[Burnt Toast]

You don't think it was sexual? Why do you think he murdered them? Did they get into an argument that turned into a physical altercation and escalated into him murdering two 12 year old girls? Odds are astronomically small that this wasn't a sexual homocide. There is virtually no other motive possible.

because they "snapped". i don't think they woke up that day with the intention on committing a double homicide. i think their day started like any other day. i think there was a confrontation that escalated into something horrible. i don't think they are what we would typically consider a sociopath. they are likely someone that no one would ever suspect. if the picture of him was taken at 2:30. i would not be surprised if they whole encounter took less than a half and hour, and maybe even less. i think they were likely dead within minutes of arriving at the CS. i think it was a local who was very familiar with the area and trails. i think the girls likely knew him and because of that the were not scared enough to dial 911. they may have expected a strange encounter, but not one that ended up with them both dead. i just don't see a out of town stranger as the culprit.

i can also see the following: accident, murder, cover up.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Unless it was a revenge killing. Payback for someone in either families.

Or perhaps someone needed them dead for a reason and BG offered to help out. A hit man of sorts.

there are plenty of murders that occur without being sexually motivated or some type of revenge killing. the person could have simply just snapped

 

[Crwhitlock]

Something that has bothered me for many weeks regarding the search on the morning of February 14, when the bodies of the girls were discovered. I went back today and listened again to the Law Enforcement press conference from February 22. When FBI Asst. Special Agent Greg Massa speaks to the media (about 13.30 minutes in) he states that "an FBI Agent participated in the search". So my question is why was the FBI called in BEFORE the bodies were discovered???? Had the police already accessed the audio or video from the cloud? We're one of the girls family members able to access the to audio and video and turned it over to the Police before the search began? On the morning of 2/14, the girls were considered missing at that point, Just doesn't make sense to me that the FBI would be involved when it was a "search" as opposed to a homocide investigation. Any thoughts????

The video of the Law Enforcement Press Conference can be seen on RTV6 ( YouTube) from 2/22/17 ( And I know what you're thinking and you're right! I don't know how to copy and paste!) Sorry

Good thinking, nice catch. I don't think anyone would have accessed the recording prior to the discovery of the bodies. Had the parents or anyone gotten a hold of that recording I think the area would have been flooded with LE immediately, that night. Probably a tactical group with thermal imaging goggles and scopes as to not destroy evidence in the dark but they would have been out there immediately. They would have sectioned the whole area off immediately as well, volunteers wouldn't have been conducting the search, I think it would have been all LE had they known what they were dealing with.

I do think the calling off of the search the night before was a tragic mistake. Even if the girls hadn't been met with foul play, it was February in Indiana. I think they would have had a tough time surviving the night out there in the woods with no shelter or way to keep warm even if they were just lost. Which really makes me question the decision to call off the search at dark. It gets dark here in February around 6 pm which means by the time searchers got started they probably only had an hour or so to work. I think dogs could have found them very easily also, regardless of the dark. It might not have changed anything but I know rumors are one of the girls survived most of the night and had only died within hours of being found. How much truth there is to that who knows. It would have given LE a 15 hour jump on BG regardless. And if the girls had really just been lost it would have very likely saved their lives.

Hindsight is 20/20, I just don't understand why they called off the search when they thought the girls were lost out there in the cold.
I suppose they might not have actually thought the girls were lost out there, they might have figured 12-13 year old girls probably had just gone to a friends house, bf's house, something.

Unless/until this thing goes to trial we won't know much of anything that went on. if/when it goes to trial some pretty horrific stuff is probably going to be brought to light also.That recording will likely have to be unveiled during the course of a trial. I don't even want to imagine what that contains. Life changing horror I'm sure.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Has anyone made a chart with headings such as, 1.Unorganized Killer 2. Experienced Killer 3. Random Attack 4. Planned AttackHas anyone else created a tabular profile for possibilities? What I mean is a chart with 5. Targeted Victims 6. Any Possible Victim. [then another category] MOTIVE: 1. Sexual 2. Instinctual 3. Vengeful 4. Other Reasons (idolizes serial killers) 5. Robbery (?) 6. Spite.---Just with these broken down and tracked offers a wide field of vision for our complication on opinions, and why we usually go with our gut instinct. But LE has heard complaints of going after one suspect and discarding all else in the past with other cases. So yeah they are holding cards tight so as not to jeopardize their own defense. But with all the possibilities even when one statistic says in 80 per cent of the crimes the victims knew their killer, the 20 per cent working here is hard to manage. So how do other people judge which theory best fits, with no shown evidence of the Killer's particular quirks or habits? Wondering outloud!

I found some statistics here Idareyato with some graphics/charts that are a little dated. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvv.pdf

 

[expatCanada]

Going back to the old thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-59&p=13386884#post13386884

This is incorrect, IMO.

http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...a21ffea83d.html#tncms-source=article-nav-next

• Apr 4, 2017

[FONT=&amp]A carved wooden sign that was on County Road 300 North, on private property that was owned by the late Sherry Mears, has been taken down and the parking area that was there has been barred to keep people from parking there.
.........
Mears&#8217; grandson and his family will be moving into the home his grandfather lived in for more than 50 years, and he expressed concerns about safety and people parking there at all hours, Corson and McCain said.

Grandson is NOT retired or anywhere close to retiring.

Who was working on that house? Who saw the girls being dropped off? JMO[/FONT]

 

[liltexans]

Please cut out the snark and the personalized posts. This thread is about Abby and Libby. Please stay on topic. There is absolutely NOTHING to "lol" about in a case involving two murdered children.

 

[mahoolin]

there are plenty of murders that occur without being sexually motivated or some type of revenge killing. the person could have simply just snapped

I agree. I think until you said that, I've been operating on the assumption that this person was of sound mind. Could be there is some type of overt mental illness with violence as a part of it (as opposed to a hidden deviance)... and he just got lucky. Maybe we've been giving this guy too much credit.

With the manner of death held back, in my opinion, that's something we can't begin to assume. (Unless more has been released I'm not aware of. I can't read every day and could have missed something big)?

Jmhoo