IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #60

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

If this case is in any way connected to Elizabeth and Lyric, the grandmothers theory of what might have occurred is of interest.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Elizabeth-Collins-abducted-drug-dealers.html

Misty, this article was linked on a previous thread a week or so ago and has an interview with Lyric's dad relating his point of view on the drug angle. I'm not saying the grandmother's statements are incorrect, nor am I implying the drug angle is invalid. Just linking to another family member's opinion.
Link to article and quote from article by Dan Morrissey.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/35322823/2017/05/Tuesday/lyrics-father-speaks-out-in-prison-interview

Yeah, it doesn’t even make sense if you think about it and play it out," said Dan. "You know, why would this happen? If I had any idea of somebody that was in my life, that I owned money to or had threatened me or anything, you’d think I wouldn’t know who that person is? You know what I mean. So I mean that would be the number one suspect on the case and this thing would have been solved a long time ago. But there is absolutely nobody in my life that I owe money to or that I have told on or anything like that. That has nothing to do with my daughter... And why would they abduct Elizabeth and my daughter at the same time in another town that my daughter’s not even from on a random bike ride that nobody knew they were going to take. It doesn’t make sense."

 

[Hazelnutty]

That's the beauty of the FBI and LE. I'm sure they have tactics we have no idea about and that's how it should be imo.

I'm sure they do have some beautiful tactics. I hope they are currently being employed.[emoji4] [emoji258]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

 

[kat913]

Misty, this article was linked on a previous thread a week or so ago and has an interview with Lyric's dad relating his point of view on the drug angle. I'm not saying the grandmother's statements are incorrect, nor am I implying the drug angle is invalid. Just linking to another family member's opinion.
Link to article and quote from article by Dan Morrissey.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/35322823/2017/05/Tuesday/lyrics-father-speaks-out-in-prison-interview

Yeah, it doesn’t even make sense if you think about it and play it out," said Dan. "You know, why would this happen? If I had any idea of somebody that was in my life, that I owned money to or had threatened me or anything, you’d think I wouldn’t know who that person is? You know what I mean. So I mean that would be the number one suspect on the case and this thing would have been solved a long time ago. But there is absolutely nobody in my life that I owe money to or that I have told on or anything like that. That has nothing to do with my daughter... And why would they abduct Elizabeth and my daughter at the same time in another town that my daughter’s not even from on a random bike ride that nobody knew they were going to take. It doesn’t make sense."

BBM

That's what I mean...kidnapped right by Lizzie's home and the predator is unbeknownst to anyone in that town as of yet!

 

[rosesfromangels]

And very same question that stumps us --- why didn't anyone see or hear anything?

Like many cases, someone probably did, but is too fearful to speak up. Theory only.

 

[Brighty]

I just asked my husband (who doesn't really know about Websleuths), who is the more calculating sportsman, a hunter or a fisherman? He said a fisherman because a hunter sits in a stand and waits for the deer to come to him and a fisherman will have to go find the fish. Just wondered about that. Interesting to think about here.

That depends on where the hunter lives. In many areas deer hunters have to actually hunt. I have never lived where deer stands would be an effective way to hunt deer.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

[/B]


BBM

That's what I mean...kidnapped right by Lizzie's home and the predator is unbeknownst to anyone in that town as of yet!

JMO...
If either case, Indiana or Iowa, was a revenge or retribution killing, wouldn't it make sense that the person who was the target of the revenge or retribution would know the name of the person(s) or group(s) that were seeking revenge or retribution? If it is revenge or retribution, LE should already have at least one name on their suspect list, regardless of whether or not there is a match already in the system for DNA. And I still think they have DNA evidence in the Indiana case.
JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

What if he is so organized that he has a way to subdue them easily...not too informed on that... but there might be a way he subdues them into being quiet (fear can freeze one immediately)...and compliant .

Just my opinion....I really wish I knew some facts!!!

My opinion, children growing up in smaller towns or in rural areas typically experience freedom and innnocence that's far different from city kids, who are usually much more "protected" and often as a result develop a natural fear of people who they don't recognize. Rural kids, they know a far larger percentage of people in their world so the fear of strangers is lessened. And aside from that, children by nature are trusting, as well as inquisitive and curious by nature.

So however the victims were lured, its possible they didn't realize the perp/s
had evil intentions until it was too late. Unless the perps approach was recorded on Libby's cellphone, we may never know how it occured. (One of the main differences between true crime and movies, always will question marks remain.)

On the topic of screaming, good point about freezing. Awhile ago I was almost hit by a car backing in a mall parking lot. I didn't make a sound, didn't holler or scream, didn't move. What I did was put out my hand on the trunk as if I could hold back the car from hitting me. Luckily it stopped but my silly instant reaction absolutely flabbergasted me.

Something I wonder, if the girls realized something was amiss and took the opportunity to flee, is it possible to run for ones life and scream at the same time? I don't think our bodies are equipped with enough lung power to do a good job of both at once.

If they did flee, I wonder that death could've occurred very quickly by gunshots in the back and the perp/s would've been long gone out of the area before anyone realized they were missing.

 

[kat913]

I think he just came at them so quickly and with ill intent that everything froze and they complied. I know screaming or fighting back (as an adult) would not be an automatic instinct for me, yet. I practice my profanity so I will be prepared to at least surprise him with my mouth...lol!

 

[MistyWaters]

JMO...
If either case, Indiana or Iowa, was a revenge or retribution killing, wouldn't it make sense that the person who was the target of the revenge or retribution would know the name of the person(s) or group(s) that were seeking revenge or retribution? If it is revenge or retribution, LE should already have at least one name on their suspect list, regardless of whether or not there is a match already in the system for DNA. And I still think they have DNA evidence in the Indiana case.
JMO.

Organized crime often operate under the veil of secrecy and by a structure somewhat similar to layers of a pyramid scheme. Those af the bottom often have no idea who are the leaders sitting at the top. Part of the reason is because the activities of the enterprise are obviously illegal, therefore the trust level is low. Just an example, somebody selling drugs on the street would likely not know the origin of the drugs that they are selling.

Creating the complexity, the leader/s who issue the orders are generally not be the person/s committing the crime. That person is without motive, other than fear of their own life if they don't follow through.

 

[Confusion]

My opinion, children growing up in smaller towns or in rural areas typically experience freedom and innnocence that's far different from city kids, who are usually much more "protected" and often as a result develop a natural fear of people who they don't recognize. Rural kids, they know a far larger percentage of people in their world so the fear of strangers is lessened. And aside from that, children by nature are trusting, as well as inquisitive and curious by nature.

So however the victims were lured, its possible they didn't realize the perp/s
had evil intentions until it was too late. Unless the perps approach was recorded on Libby's cellphone, we may never know how it occured. (One of the main differences between true crime and movies, always will question marks remain.)

On the topic of screaming, good point about freezing. Awhile ago I was almost hit by a car backing in a mall parking lot. I didn't make a sound, didn't holler or scream, didn't move. What I did was put out my hand on the trunk as if I could hold back the car from hitting me. Luckily it stopped but my silly instant reaction absolutely flabbergasted me.

Something I wonder, if the girls realized something was amiss and took the opportunity to flee, is it possible to run for ones life and scream at the same time? I don't think our bodies are equipped with enough lung power to do a good job of both at once.

If they did flee, I wonder that death could've occurred very quickly by gunshots in the back and the perp/s would've been long gone out of the area before anyone realized they were missing.

BBM

I'm not a screamer either, and haven't been since I was a toddler. When I was 13, I woke up about 5 am to find a drunken stranger sitting on my bed; I sat there and talked to him for an hour before I was able to get past him and go to wake my mother (we lived in a duplex at the time and he was there to kill his ex-wife who lived upstairs), I also went through rapes at 14, 16 and 18, and didn't scream during any of them either in spite of the bruises, etc. I ended up with. I've been really lucky that none of them had planned to kill me because I was about Abby's size and wasn't much of a fighter. I think they may have been like me and thought they should save their energy for trying to get away since there wasn't likely to be anyone within hearing distance of them anyway.

MOO

 

[expatCanada]

Night all. This whole website is messed up for me. I can't tell heads nor tails anymore. Maybe tomorrow will be a better day?

 

[expatCanada]

Because NO ONE was around. JMO. I don't believe the b.s. posting on facebook nor the other little girl's hearsay (Chasity). It's the old story... IF someone screams in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does the scream make a sound?

And very same question that stumps us --- why didn't anyone see or hear anything?

 

[MistyWaters]

Misty, this article was linked on a previous thread a week or so ago and has an interview with Lyric's dad relating his point of view on the drug angle. I'm not saying the grandmother's statements are incorrect, nor am I implying the drug angle is invalid. Just linking to another family member's opinion.
Link to article and quote from article by Dan Morrissey.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/35322823/2017/05/Tuesday/lyrics-father-speaks-out-in-prison-interview

Yeah, it doesn’t even make sense if you think about it and play it out," said Dan. "You know, why would this happen? If I had any idea of somebody that was in my life, that I owned money to or had threatened me or anything, you’d think I wouldn’t know who that person is? You know what I mean. So I mean that would be the number one suspect on the case and this thing would have been solved a long time ago. But there is absolutely nobody in my life that I owe money to or that I have told on or anything like that. That has nothing to do with my daughter... And why would they abduct Elizabeth and my daughter at the same time in another town that my daughter’s not even from on a random bike ride that nobody knew they were going to take. It doesn’t make sense."

The grandmother didn't mention anything whatsoever about a drug debt. In reading the Dailymail article and what the grandmother mentions, I'd take her theory to be more plausible over DM's denial of anything. And he's not going to admit anything to the media regardless if he turned over information or not. It's even possible he didn't, but the criminal organization's sources were wrong. MOO

 

[Idareyato]

The grandmother didn't mention anything whatsoever about a drug debt. In reading the Dailymail article and what the grandmother mentions, I'd take her theory to be more plausible over DM's denial of anything. And he's not going to admit anything to the media regardless if he turned over information or not. It's even possible he didn't, but the criminal organization's sources were wrong. MOO

Dealing with drugs as a topic, the idea of snapping, or an individual gets a wild hair and decides instantly to take a life, when meth causes voices and hallucinations?? I know it doesn't fit the bill of murdering two young girls, but vehicular homicide is rampant for these offenders. What else that dude in NYC told the police upon capture after running down a crowd IDK, but that BG here, if high on something, could very well have been delusional enough to kill upon the moment. Maybe he was carrying a drug kit. Maybe he was paranoid. I have a difficulty in prescribing some sane reason for his activity, you know!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I just asked my husband (who doesn't really know about Websleuths), who is the more calculating sportsman, a hunter or a fisherman? He said a fisherman because a hunter sits in a stand and waits for the deer to come to him and a fisherman will have to go find the fish. Just wondered about that. Interesting to think about here.

A fish gets lured by a bait/worm and then tricked by the fishing rod or trapped by a net. In a figurative sense the girls were trapped by the bridge end and maybe by one extra person (except the fisherman).
Now, what had been the "worm" in case Abby/Libby?

 

[Idareyato]

A fish gets lured by a bait/worm and then tricked by the fishing rod or trapped by a net. In a figurative sense the girls were trapped by the bridge end and maybe by one extra person (except the fisherman).
Now, what had been the "worm" in case Abby/Libby?

Their motivation for crossing the bridge? To take pictures is what 'lured' them to the spot. His 'fisherman' instincts? IDK.

 

[Ember123]

It's statements like this (ones LE made) that confuse me with regard to the families' reactions these many weeks later. Even if they're civil minded and understanding, how could the families not be furious at that decision? I understand LE's actions and assumptions, but I think I'd have a very difficult time avoiding what-iffing those things for the rest of my days.

The above is just my opinion.

I'm guessing a family member, perhaps an adult male family member, persuaded LE that one girl was strong willed, could be adversarial at times, even exasperating, and that she may have run off, and LE followed his lead on it in thinking foul play not likely that first night. If so, families may not feel complaint about decision should be directed toward LE if they were strongly influenced by this family member's take on things... ?

 

[they'll get you]

Here is a vid of trout fishing at Deer Creek saying it was recently filled with 2,000 trout.
I noticed the third person left the others to get 'stuff for his crayfish tank'. What I'm saying is there is another reason for someone to be at the creek.

Im NOT insinuating these people had anything whatsoever to do with this tragedy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w9PDdyTUNig

From Australia sending love and best wishes for this murderer being found soon.

 

[Ember123]

I'm thinkg BG saw them dropped off (working in the area? was about on foot? driving past? lives in vicinity or staying with someone?) ... became interested (sex u ally most likely IMO) ... grabbed stuff on hand or had it on him alrdy if he fancies himself a survivalust/hunter ... decided to run them into an end zone with his plan likely not entirely yet thought out ... and they turned out to be more than he cld handle so he turned murderous out of necessity (in his mind) and had leanings toward violence anyway... felt he had to snuff them out at that point... it all happened quickly right here... then he high-tailed it out there and blended back in to obscurity hiding in plain sight. Thoughts on what might disprove this

 

[Shiressleuth]

So maybe a local or maybe not?

Why the billboards? That question keeps coming up.

A local who travels? Delivery or truck driver maybe?