IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #62

[Deleted member 278]

Agree Cryptic.

The question is, did LE mention the cap because they really didn't want anyone to focus on it or to cause people to focus on it. Because LE said don't make much of the cap (paraphrasing) yet many are doing just that. I'm going with they were attempting to deflect questions about the cap further down the road by saying this may not be the exact cap.

I really need a hat emoji here!

LE said to not focus on it. I think that's because they aren't sure exactly what kind of hat it is. I don't know why so many people are talking about it. IMO, the hat means nothing.

 

[skibaboo]

LE said to not focus on it. I think that's because they aren't sure exactly what kind of hat it is. I don't know why so many people are talking about it. IMO, the hat means nothing.

Yesterday was hectic. Did they not say not to focus on the hat, because it is not the type of hat he was wearing? He was wearing a hat with flaps on the side but if they did the sketch with that on it would hide too many features and they want you to focus on his face and features?

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Yesterday was hectic. Did they not say not to focus on the hat, because it is not the type of hat he was wearing? He was wearing a hat with flaps on the side but if they did the sketch with that on it would hide too many features and they want you to focus on his face and features?

Yes and Yes and

:winner:

 

[Blythe]

Would it make anyone feel better if we replaced that cap with a baseball cap? And subsequently not focus on it.

 

[kizzykat]

I keep thinking about the "she" witness being afraid to come forward, fearing being recognized by BG. An update yesterday afternoon from US News via the Associated Press states Sheriff Leazenby says the FBI sketch is the result of a witness who saw BG walking around the time the girls were killed. (Article link below.)

But if this witness just saw BG walking it doesn't make sense she would fear him. It had to be a more substantial encounter than that. What would have happened that left her with an indelible impression of BG months later? I'm thinking a close & threatening encounter. All day yesterday I was picturing this female is an adult, and maybe she had children with her, or he saw her get in her car, maybe she has vanity plates, something that could give him a way to track her or her kids down. But that seems such a stretch. And on top of that there was all the media coverage, the audio, the still pics, the family mourning, asking the public for help, RL's media attention and arrest. One would think the vast majority of adult women would be compelled to come forward rather quickly with something they knew or saw.

So then I started thinking what if 'she' is not an adult. What if she was another kid out of school and on the trail. She may or may not have planned to meet a friend or a boy, but at the time of her encounter with BG she was alone. What if she were BG's first target and not Libby and Abby? What if he said and/or did something that terrified her and she somehow she slipped away from him? BG becomes enraged, because he's planned and come prepared, fully determined he'll succeed that day and his prey gets away. He then sees Abby & Libby and his state of mind propels him to become even more brazen and go for two victims. One would think a young girl would tell parents or a girlfriend, someone. Maybe she opted to tell a girlfriend but they both agreed to remain silent, let someone else out there (an adult) come forward. Or maybe she didn't tell anyone right away, remaining silent that night because whatever he said or did left her unable to fully process it. Then by the next day when Abby and Libby are found, the realization that it could've been her caused such a deep terror that she simply withdrew. Maybe as time went on she started showing signs of trauma; depression, anxiety, slipping grades and that's what brought it all out.

I guess what I'm saying is an adult witness is going to be more capable of reasoning how difficult it would be for BG to find & harm her, but a minor would not have matured enough to have that capability. An adult would feel compelled to report another adult. But a minor, and a potential victim of BG could be paralyzed with fear. So I could more readily see a minor holding back versus an adult. Just my thoughts rambling, feel free to shoot holes in my theorizing.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/indiana/articles/2017-07-17/the-latest-witness-aided-in-sketch-of-suspect-in-2-killings

DELPHI, Ind. (AP) — The Latest on the investigation into the killings of two northern Indiana girls (all times local):


2:15 p.m.

A northern Indiana sheriff says a newly-released sketch of a man considered the main suspect in the February killings of two girls was drawn by an FBI sketch artist based on information from someone who saw the suspect.

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby (tohb LEHZ'-ehn-BEE') says the witness saw the man walking around the time 14-year-old Liberty German and 13-year-old Abigail Williams were slain near their hometown of Delphi, about 60 miles (100 kilometers) northwest of Indianapolis.

 

[TTF14]

I keep thinking about the "she" witness being afraid to come forward, fearing being recognized by BG. An update yesterday afternoon from US News via the Associated Press states Sheriff Leazenby says the FBI sketch is the result of a witness who saw BG walking around the time the girls were killed. (Article link below.)

But if this witness just saw BG walking it doesn't make sense she would fear him. It had to be a more substantial encounter than that. What would have happened that left her with an indelible impression of BG months later? I'm thinking a close & threatening encounter. All day yesterday I was picturing this female is an adult, and maybe she had children with her, or he saw her get in her car, maybe she has vanity plates, something that could give him a way to track her or her kids down. But that seems such a stretch. And on top of that there was all the media coverage, the audio, the still pics, the family mourning, asking the public for help, RL's media attention and arrest. One would think the vast majority of adult women would be compelled to come forward rather quickly with something they knew or saw.

So then I started thinking what if 'she' is not an adult. What if she was another kid out of school and on the trail. She may or may not have planned to meet a friend or a boy, but at the time of her encounter with BG she was alone. What if she were BG's first target and not Libby and Abby? What if he said and/or did something that terrified her and she somehow she slipped away from him? BG becomes enraged, because he's planned and come prepared, fully determined he'll succeed that day and his prey gets away. He then sees Abby & Libby and his state of mind propels him to become even more brazen and go for two victims. One would think a young girl would tell parents or a girlfriend, someone. Maybe she opted to tell a girlfriend but they both agreed to remain silent, let someone else out there (an adult) come forward. Or maybe she didn't tell anyone right away, remaining silent that night because whatever he said or did left her unable to fully process it. Then by the next day when Abby and Libby are found, the realization that it could've been her caused such a deep terror that she simply withdrew. Maybe as time went on she started showing signs of trauma; depression, anxiety, slipping grades and that's what brought it all out.

I guess what I'm saying is an adult witness is going to be more capable of reasoning how difficult it would be for BG to find & harm her, but a minor would not have matured enough to have that capability. An adult would feel compelled to report another adult. But a minor, and a potential victim of BG could be paralyzed with fear. So I could more readily see a minor holding back versus an adult. Just my thoughts rambling, feel free to shoot holes in my theorizing.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/indiana/articles/2017-07-17/the-latest-witness-aided-in-sketch-of-suspect-in-2-killings

Could be.

Whoever the witness is, I would agree that there would have had to have been some sort of up close and personal encounter to be able to know eye color. Although if that were the case, you'd think the hat would also be able to be identified/described.

 

[Blythe]

I keep thinking about the "she" witness being afraid to come forward, fearing being recognized by BG. An update yesterday afternoon from US News via the Associated Press states Sheriff Leazenby says the FBI sketch is the result of a witness who saw BG walking around the time the girls were killed. (Article link below.)

But if this witness just saw BG walking it doesn't make sense she would fear him. It had to be a more substantial encounter than that. What would have happened that left her with an indelible impression of BG months later? I'm thinking a close & threatening encounter. All day yesterday I was picturing this female is an adult, and maybe she had children with her, or he saw her get in her car, maybe she has vanity plates, something that could give him a way to track her or her kids down. But that seems such a stretch. And on top of that there was all the media coverage, the audio, the still pics, the family mourning, asking the public for help, RL's media attention and arrest. One would think the vast majority of adult women would be compelled to come forward rather quickly with something they knew or saw.

So then I started thinking what if 'she' is not an adult. What if she was another kid out of school and on the trail. She may or may not have planned to meet a friend or a boy, but at the time of her encounter with BG she was alone. What if she were BG's first target and not Libby and Abby? What if he said and/or did something that terrified her and she somehow she slipped away from him? BG becomes enraged, because he's planned and come prepared, fully determined he'll succeed that day and his prey gets away. He then sees Abby & Libby and his state of mind propels him to become even more brazen and go for two victims. One would think a young girl would tell parents or a girlfriend, someone. Maybe she opted to tell a girlfriend but they both agreed to remain silent, let someone else out there (an adult) come forward. Or maybe she didn't tell anyone right away, remaining silent that night because whatever he said or did left her unable to fully process it. Then by the next day when Abby and Libby are found, the realization that it could've been her caused such a deep terror that she simply withdrew. Maybe as time went on she started showing signs of trauma; depression, anxiety, slipping grades and that's what brought it all out.

I guess what I'm saying is an adult witness is going to be more capable of reasoning how difficult it would be for BG to find & harm her, but a minor would not have matured enough to have that capability. An adult would feel compelled to report another adult. But a minor, and a potential victim of BG could be paralyzed with fear. So I could more readily see a minor holding back versus an adult. Just my thoughts rambling, feel free to shoot holes in my theorizing.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/indiana/articles/2017-07-17/the-latest-witness-aided-in-sketch-of-suspect-in-2-killings

I think your idea about the witness being a minor has merit. It explains the 5 month time gap. I am reminded of the Elizabeth Smart case and the time it took for the younger sister to retrieve memories. JMO

 

[gregjrichards]

[video=twitter;887297871770505216]https://twitter.com/AlexaGreenNews/status/887297871770505216[/video]

Alexa Green‏ @AlexaGreenNews 2m2 minutes ago
PLEASE SHARE! @IndStatePolice say more than 500 tips have come in since this sketch of the #Delphi killer was released yesterday.

I'm so pleased to read this. Thank you skibaboo. Let's find him ASAP.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

First, I don't put much importance on the hat. However, since you mentioned it's out of fashion, someone posted on here yesterday they know at least 3 people who still wear it (person was from or near IN). In the beginning the jeans were called out of fashion by people posting here. My point is fashion IMO has nothing to do with what a killer would be wearing. Clothes can be found anywhere.

I agree that the hat discussion is moot. Just to throw out an example of how the hat may or may not be in fashion or worn by only older men of (fill in the blank) ethnicity, here are Justin Timberlake and Tom Brady, two decidedly younger, stylish men, wearing similar hats: http://www.gq.com/story/tom-brady-justin-timberlake-hat/amp

Sometimes a hat is just a hat.


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[Kissy]

I can still see an adult being afraid to tell, even with BG being a stranger. Leaks get around in a small town and anymore, all you need is a name to find out where someone lives. Especially if said adult has children of their own that they are fearful could be harmed. He obviously has no hesitation in killing. It may have taken 5 months to make <her> own plan for security that she felt comfortable with before she could work up the nerve. There's just so many scenarios possible about why it took so long.

 

[Cryptic]

I agree that the hat discussion is moot. Just to throw out an example of how the hat may or may not be in fashion or worn by only older men of (fill in the blank) ethnicity,

Nobody has claimed that, or anything similar to that. Rather, I, at least, have posted references to the hat with following paraphrased caveats:

- "General geographical area",
- "the cap is not that culturally distinct",
- "many whites don't have a cultural identity to an ethnic subgroup"
- "nobody has a copy right on clothing,
- "anybody can wear anything anywhere"

 

[carbuff]

I wonder about maybe the family member who came to pick them up.

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[cds0902]

So, Yes the whole hat deal is bizarre. why not give him hair as was shown in the photo. If LE had not mentioned the cap no one would have thought anything about it. I agree with a previous poster, whom ever saw him was up close enough to see his eyes were not blue, notice when he is walking, he is walking with his head down. I doubt he would have looked up for any one passing by as he would not want to show his face.

 

[BeesInMyBonnet]

Nobody has claimed that, or anything similar to that.

Perhaps I have misinterpreted these posts, if that is the case:

Snipped:

A couple things I gather from the pic. The hat might be a subtle hint at ethnic background, maybe some Italian (bigger nose, etc. - not being rude), just some thoughts...

Or... as distinct ethnic identities / physical apperances of the various white subgroups (Irish, Polish, Greek, Italian- American etc) have faded, maybe "place of origin" might be better?

That style of cap has been out of fashion for decades. I can't remember ever seeing a southerner or Texan wear that style of cap. In contrast, I have seen that style of cap far more often being worn by men from the north (both urban and rural). Even then, it was usually worn by older men.


Now that you mention an ethnic possibility, the men I know who routinely wear that style of cap are older and live in areas that do have a stronger eastern European / slavic background.

I wonder if there are any Polish, Czech or Slovak descent majority farming communities in the area where the perpetrator might of inherited that out of style cap, or bought it from a local thrift store or garage sale?

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[Cryptic]

Perhaps I have misinterpreted these posts, if that is the case:

Honestly, you did misinterpret me. Here is my quote from your post:

In contrast, I have seen that style of cap far more often being worn by men from the north (both urban and rural). Even then, it was usually worn by older men.

the men I know who routinely wear that style of cap... .

Please note the use of the words "The men I know" and "more often", "usually".... .

Also please note the following from me:

Overall, I don't place much emphasis on the clothing either. I would not rule out a link either.

Sure, clothes can be purchased anywhere and worn by anybody. At the same time, cowboy boots and western belt buckles are relatively common in rural Texas and the West. They might be rare in rural Vermont. Thus, there might be a link between a style of clothing and a general geographic area.
[/B]
In this case, the possible link might be even more fuzzy as the hat is not that culturally distinct. Then again, there might not be any link. As you implied, nobody has a copyright on clothing. Even still, I just help but think of the areas where I have sen men with that style of cap and areas where I have not.

Or... as distinct ethnic identities / physical apperances of the various white subgroups (Irish, Polish, Greek, Italian- American etc) have faded,

As you can see, I included a lot of caveats and never said "only" in any context.

 

[Jax49]

So, Yes the whole hat deal is bizarre. why not give him hair as was shown in the photo. If LE had not mentioned the cap no one would have thought anything about it. I agree with a previous poster, whom ever saw him was up close enough to see his eyes were not blue, notice when he is walking, he is walking with his head down. I doubt he would have looked up for any one passing by as he would not want to show his face.

LE said he appears to be wearing a cap with the flaps down.

From Bently's transcript (post 236 on this thread):

A. As you can see, the original picture below it appears that he's got a hat on and it's got the flaps down
and kind of down over the face.

We want to make sure you focus on the picture. We want to make sure the face is what you are looking at and not worry about the hat even though the hat does is not quite the same as in the picture. We want the facial features, is what we want you to look at.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-62&p=13505097#post13505097

bbm

ETA: I'm guessing the female witness saw him with the flaps up.

 

[Aleph]

I keep thinking about the "she" witness being afraid to come forward, fearing being recognized by BG. An update yesterday afternoon from US News via the Associated Press states Sheriff Leazenby says the FBI sketch is the result of a witness who saw BG walking around the time the girls were killed. (Article link below.)

But if this witness just saw BG walking it doesn't make sense she would fear him. It had to be a more substantial encounter than that. What would have happened that left her with an indelible impression of BG months later? I'm thinking a close & threatening encounter. All day yesterday I was picturing this female is an adult, and maybe she had children with her, or he saw her get in her car, maybe she has vanity plates, something that could give him a way to track her or her kids down. But that seems such a stretch. And on top of that there was all the media coverage, the audio, the still pics, the family mourning, asking the public for help, RL's media attention and arrest. One would think the vast majority of adult women would be compelled to come forward rather quickly with something they knew or saw.

So then I started thinking what if 'she' is not an adult. What if she was another kid out of school and on the trail. She may or may not have planned to meet a friend or a boy, but at the time of her encounter with BG she was alone. What if she were BG's first target and not Libby and Abby? What if he said and/or did something that terrified her and she somehow she slipped away from him? BG becomes enraged, because he's planned and come prepared, fully determined he'll succeed that day and his prey gets away. He then sees Abby & Libby and his state of mind propels him to become even more brazen and go for two victims. One would think a young girl would tell parents or a girlfriend, someone. Maybe she opted to tell a girlfriend but they both agreed to remain silent, let someone else out there (an adult) come forward. Or maybe she didn't tell anyone right away, remaining silent that night because whatever he said or did left her unable to fully process it. Then by the next day when Abby and Libby are found, the realization that it could've been her caused such a deep terror that she simply withdrew. Maybe as time went on she started showing signs of trauma; depression, anxiety, slipping grades and that's what brought it all out.

I guess what I'm saying is an adult witness is going to be more capable of reasoning how difficult it would be for BG to find & harm her, but a minor would not have matured enough to have that capability. An adult would feel compelled to report another adult. But a minor, and a potential victim of BG could be paralyzed with fear. So I could more readily see a minor holding back versus an adult. Just my thoughts rambling, feel free to shoot holes in my theorizing.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/indiana/articles/2017-07-17/the-latest-witness-aided-in-sketch-of-suspect-in-2-killings

I wonder if the new witness lives close to the trail and saw BG near her house. That would explain her fear.

 

[Barbie619]

They have been working on it for a long time near where I 65 meets 25. Also, that portion of 25, the "Hoosier Heartland Highway", opened just under 5 years ago. So it's possible that someone worked on that area of 25, which was very very close to the murder, and returned to the area working on I65.

I don't know the area at all but would highway/roadwork be going on in February? Smack in the middle of the cold winter months?

 

[Pseudonymph]

I just watched "True Crime," a very well done New Zealand TV series. The first episode was about the Brent Garner case, where a cop set up a huge elaborate ruse to burn his house down and escape his life. (So interesting if you're not familiar.)

Anyway, the police did not release the identikit sketch until they were pretty sure Garner had done this. He had essentially described himself in the sketch, and police wanted him to suspect they were onto him.

I tend to think the police in this case have a very good idea who this guy is.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Hoping for an arrest this week with this new sketch having been issued! Woke up today and headed straight here!