IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #63

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Respectfully submitted.

To those of you that think LE knows who the murderer is, why do you think they haven't brought him in for questioning/arrested him? It makes absolutely no sense to me that they wouldn't. Enlighten me, please.
 
Sorry if already posted, still catching up, but someone just sent me this article (thank you!) and I've got to say WOOOWWWW for many reasons...wet in the river, SA, appearance, location...


Man faces rape, 6 other charges after manhunt
Tribune-Star staff report Jul 13, 2017
http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_...cle_7b2e88e1-e008-5ccd-ae89-d5d0d44f2930.html

*going to ask a mod for permission on a side by side and permission to sleuth.

(Eta: flagged a mod.)

Lots of talk about how BG's features are not unique; he could be any Midwestern guy you pass on the street, and I agree. But this guy you're posting about - really unique features. Nose and eyes look nothing like BG. LE would be lucky to have had a suspect with features that distinct.
 
Just putting out here some miscellaneous thoughts I've jotted down as getting caught up on the case. Perhaps a memory will be jostled in someone out there. I live in Indianapolis. Can separate into sections if need be for brevity/ease of reply.....

1) Sunset on 2/13/17 was 6:20PM, and pitch dark by 6:48PM...We know the girls were still alive and appeared in no danger at 2:07PM. I have not yet located a Moon (Full?) status for that evening but I see, without higher-than-normal moonlight, that area being very difficult to traverse in pitch darkness. (e.g. no streetlights or house lights, rugged/hilly, certainly unpaved, etc). Would seem either the entire heinous act was carried out in some degree of light in this late-afternoon 3+ hour timeframe, possibly even after the missing-persons report was filed at 5:30PM, or some parts were conducted after dark, though more longshot that unintended footprints, dragprints, dropping of an item, any consequences of covering, carrying, transporting or attempting to hide bodies, etc type evidence would've been left behind in the dark. It began to get light the next day at 7:12AM.
https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/delphi-in/2017/2

2. Through the Hughes video and Melvin video, it's discernible that someone on a hike (casual pace - steady yet not brisk) could've covered the territory from where they were dropped off to the start of the bridge in approx 12 minutes, plus another 3-ish minutes to Platform #3 where the snapchat photo of Abby occurred. However if they were dropped off around 1PM and that photo was taken at 2:07PM, it took them over an hour to cover what might've been hiked in 15 minutes. Perhaps they were on a 2nd passthrough (& BG had spotted them earlier) or they were stopping frequently, in no hurry. (could explain why BG caught up with them on the bridge when per snapchat girls were halfway across with no one in sight behind them yet BG later walked 85% of the bridge before they finished the latter half). Yet if they took frequent breaks, there's no evidence that Liberty took more than the 2 pics earlier so what did they do during their breaks?. It does make a difference whether LE has actual phones or pulling from cloud. If they have phones, they should be able to determine whether other SM was viewed by either/both, either to solidify a timeline, whether an SOS-type call was attempted to 911/elsewhere by either girl, whether Abby took any photos, or other clues. Or perhaps the girls didn't start the hike immediately after being dropped off...instead meeting someone or going somewhere else first outside the trail system. Or do we even know if the 1:00 dropoff time can be verified?

3. I tend to ascribe to an earlier theory that, instead of approaching the girls from behind in the same southeasterly direction as the girls were headed, BG may have either been on a return across the bridge or began on the bridge at the southeast end and crossed them....then pivoted and followed them. This would explain how no one was seen behind Abby in the snapchat at the bridge's halfway point yet caught up and corraled them prior to getting all the way across. It could also explain why Libby immediately sensed danger - if the girls had done this bridge many times before it may not have scared them to encounter someone but would have if he changed courses from passing them to following them. Lastly, if BG had just come from the area he eventually lead them to, it would've made him more confident that "down the hill" terrain was void of other hikers/fishers.. Where I stumble with this theory is that BG may have had to climb up from the "down the hill" rather treacherous terrain, and that there would've been no need to conceal his weapon if confident they wouldn't encounter anyone. After watching the Melvin videos scrutiny of the bridge's condition (gaps between planks & rotting of multiple boards), I also grapple with a plump 40's-50's man traversing that, especially if trying to go up-speed in order to catch up to someone(s), with hands in pocket and not using arms to help balance self.

4. We certainly don't have the evidence or desire to question anyone like Libby's judgment, especially in that heat of moment scenario, but as another earlier pointed out - if she had the time/ability to video BG AND felt in danger then, could she have called 911? Or does this indicate she knew BG or didn't feel threatened at that moment by him? The above-mentioned videos suggest she took that video from approx 75 ft away from BG, thus a very reasonable head-start for athletic teen girls in sweat attire compared to an older heavy-set man in jeans/workboots, had they felt the need to escape - not just in speed but capacity to navigate hills/turns/climbing rocks, etc. Obviously the presence of a gun/hostage could've altered their thinking. They may have even seen him coming from much farther away than the time of video. Certain things might indicate they didn't truly feel threatened until it was too late.

5. Lastly, my hunch is that BG is the hybrid type of person that wasn't living in the Delphi area at the time, but had familiarity with Delphi in the past. I'm thinking someone who grew up there 30 years ago or perhaps someone who's grandparents lived in Delphi and they maybe spent a couple weeks every summer there. Stetching farther, it would make sense if these potential grandparents were buried in the cemetery near RL's place and BG was passing thru near the area and pulled off to visit his relatives' graves and something angered him there or took him down some wild emotional path. Knowing the cemetery area would also provide familiarity with where a parking spot could've been and/or how he came to enter the bridge from the "wrong" or other side. It just seems too unlikely that a drifter would stumble onto this spot, attempt to cross this rickety bridge for the first time, know where to order the girls to, figure out how to escape from a somewhat dense area a mile from where he parked or entered the trail from, and not leave clues or be seen.

Like all of you too, let's hope and pray for justice to be served very soon!!
 
Respectfully submitted.

To those of you that think LE knows who the murderer is, why do you think they haven't brought him in for questioning/arrested him? It makes absolutely no sense to me that they wouldn't. Enlighten me, please.

They may have questioned him, but need further evidence to charge him. Or they suspect him without sufficient evidence. And by putting out a sketch, someone may be able to place him somewhere (or remember something about him) on that day that would implicate or clear him.
 
Respectfully submitted.

To those of you that think LE knows who the murderer is, why do you think they haven't brought him in for questioning/arrested him? It makes absolutely no sense to me that they wouldn't. Enlighten me, please.

I don't know if you've been following the YingYing Zhang case, but they knew who their man was 3 days after she went missing and just kept surveillance on him for two weeks, which is how they got enough info to arrest him. I realize that 2 weeks is a way shorter time frame than this, but it is quite possible that LE know what they're doing and have a strategy behind it all.
 
Respectfully submitted.

To those of you that think LE knows who the murderer is, why do you think they haven't brought him in for questioning/arrested him? It makes absolutely no sense to me that they wouldn't. Enlighten me, please.

They might suspect someone but don't even have evidence for a search warrant. They put out the sketch, get a bunch of tips, a couple of the tips say it looks like their suspect and mention a few suspicious things about him, they go get a warrant based on the tips?
 
Respectfully submitted.

To those of you that think LE knows who the murderer is, why do you think they haven't brought him in for questioning/arrested him? It makes absolutely no sense to me that they wouldn't. Enlighten me, please.
Maybe he didn't leave dna and has a false alibi that is suspected to be false by LE due to someone being scared of him. Several scenarios could fit. He could already be thought to be in jail for something else so they know he is in jail but need him identified by someone as being there on the trail that day. 20 people were arrested on charges unrelated to the murders after LE followed up tips initially iirc. I don't necessarily think this but just being Devil's advocate to see how it could be possible.
 
So, the person who provided the info for the sketch:
We come into contact with dozens, if not hundreds, of people a day. There would be no reason to think one of these people was connected with a murder. The FBI says they are very confident in their sketch, meaning whoever provided the info must be very confident the person they IDed was involved. Seeing someone around wouldn't make you that confident. Therefore, I think the person either overheard/oversaw part of the crime or related activity and was threatened by BG (hence them being afraid to come forward), or BG confessed/bragged about the crime to them and threatened them, or BG attempted a crime on them as well.
Q.

I disagree. In the Jessica Ridgeway case, there was a woman that came across Austin Sigg while she was walking her dog. (This is a different woman than the one he attacked and attempted to rape at Ketner Lake). She said she saw him and felt very ill at ease and knew if she didn't have her dog with her, he would have attacked her. She remembered what he looked like because her instincts told her something was wrong with the situation/person. I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar here, that the witness's internal alarms went off for some reason and they were able to remember details of his appearance.
 
Imo if they have a serious suspect they would dig into his background and seek out people he knows...not come with up with a sketch months later and hope the right person happens to see it. Imo it is insane to me that they would know exactly who this man is and yet take their time, making pictures and crossing their fingers.
 
Imo if they have a serious suspect they would dig into his background and seek out people he knows...not come with up with a sketch months later and hope the right person happens to see it. Imo it is insane to me that they would know exactly who this man is and yet take their time, making pictures and crossing their fingers.

This is assuming a lot about their investigative work that we just do no know, and belittling important, long standing LE practice (suspect sketches are a tool, not just making pictures). We have no idea if they know *exactly* who the man is, but they may have serious suspicions, and have to follow the law if they're going to make an arrest. I realize this case is taking longer to solve than anyone wanted or expected. But it doesn't mean they're "taking their time". I saw someone mention in another thread that there are over two dozen LE organizations involved. I'm sure they're putting in an asinine amount of work.
 
Imo if they have a serious suspect they would dig into his background and seek out people he knows...not come with up with a sketch months later and hope the right person happens to see it. Imo it is insane to me that they would know exactly who this man is and yet take their time, making pictures and crossing their fingers.

That's what I'm talking about. It would be totally insane.
 
Imo if they have a serious suspect they would dig into his background and seek out people he knows...not come with up with a sketch months later and hope the right person happens to see it. Imo it is insane to me that they would know exactly who this man is and yet take their time, making pictures and crossing their fingers.
Sometimes those people will be too scared to talk. Even if they don't talk, just being seen with LE could get them or people they care about hurt. This person has absolutely no qualms about hurting people, that is quite clear. I can understand the intracacies of the case and caution of LE.
 
Sometimes those people will be too scared to talk. Even if they don't talk, just being seen with LE could get them or people they care about hurt. This person has absolutely no qualms about hurting people, that is quite clear. I can understand the intracacies of the case and caution of LE.

And if they are friends with him, chances are they avoid LE if at all possible.
 
LE May think they know who it is, but I guarantee they don't have anything directly tying him to the crime. If they did he would have been arrested. LE doesn't wait to build a case!

I'll also add that it appears Indiana does not require a grand jury indictment in order to proceed with charges and arrest.

http://www.indianaarrests.org/indiana criminal-procedure.html


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LE would have to have an Affidavit of Probable Cause to perform an arrest or obtain a search warrant. It has to be reviewed & signed by a judge to authorize its execution, as it states in your cited article above.

"Probable cause" generally refers to the requirement in criminal law that police have adequate reason to arrest someone, conduct a search, or seize property relating to an alleged crime.

The probable cause requirement comes from the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which states that:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be searched."
As seen in those words, in order for a court to issue a warrant -- for someone's arrest, or to search or seize property -- there must be "probable cause."
Police must also have probable cause to arrest without a warrant, and in many cases to search or seize property without a warrant.
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/probable-cause.html

We've seen many of them here on WS after they are issued. The arrest warrant tells why the warrant should be issued, and there usually is a lot of good info on the warrant saying why LE thinks the arrest is sound and the details of what the potential "arrestee" did or said to make the arrest valid. And the search warrant, after execution, gives a list of the things seized -- which is also interesting because some of the items don't seem to make sense -- but better to seize more than less, I'm sure.

Let's hope we'll be reading both soon, soon on this case. Fingers crossed.
 
While they have a duty to act, they also have to be sure they have enough evidence to hold this animal, make charges stick and get a conviction as well.
I'm hoping that is the case here and they are building their case ...I'd hate to see the guilty person walk because they were brought in before enough evidence is compiled against them .

If LE knows who this while they collect evidence he would be locked up right now and they continue their investigation. I can't imagine any law enforcement agency knowing who the suspect is allowing them continued access to victims. I believe LE has a great deal of evidence already. I believe this based on LE calling him a suspect almost immediately.

I don't believe LE has his name and address or work location. He's far too dangerous to be roaming the streets as a free man....
 
:welcome: to Websleuths, Spistol !! We're glad you're here !! :cheer::cheer:
 
If LE knows who this while they collect evidence he would be locked up right now and they continue their investigation. I can't imagine any law enforcement agency knowing who the suspect is allowing them continued access to victims. I believe LE has a great deal of evidence already. I believe this based on LE calling him a suspect almost immediately.

I don't believe LE has his name and address or work location. He's far too dangerous to be roaming the streets as a free man....

Totally agree. No way he'd still be walking the streets. They would find something to arrest him for while investigating. moo
 
( looked at the start, can't find a link to image thread anyone can help tia?)

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