IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[gregjrichards]

Well, you can pick up where I left off or I can continue. It is HARD without my machine to pause. Going back just a few seconds is really difficult when you have two screens to deal with!

FWIW .... apparently someone has already copy/pasted this to TOPIX and I am one very unhappy camper! :fuse::fuse: Do you even have a clue how hard it is to do without a proper machine, and with arthritic fingers? Now, if they asked me first, I may have said "go ahead" but without permission of the poster that is really rudeness to the max. :sheesh:

JMO

I'm very sorry but please know we at Websluths appreciate your efforts very much.

 

[Spellbound]

She didn't say Missouri. Listen again.

Oh no! I had trouble with that section, she stumbles so much!

I alerted.... I asked to change it to:
A: [7.45]. is it a few people kind of , possibly that saw him, or there was more than a couple that called in, right?

Thanks, rocket! :loveyou:

 

[iscaremyself]

This immediately made me think of the guy who is in jail for drinking and breaking his probation! Can't think of his initials, he lives in the house on the property by the bridge/trails.

I don't think he had a thing to do with the murders! However....., the way LE treated him and put him in jail so fast and the judge gave him the long sentence, something is quirky about all that, IMO. I feel he knows something and is afraid to talk.

Consequently, LE has him behind bars, in a safe environment. I bet he is not in general population!

My opinions only.

the cops thought it was him.. squeezed him and made sure he was on ice in case something broke.
I don't think he has a clue. RL by the way

 

[Falling Down]

That sounds right. Makes me think if Ted Bundy, who literally trolled malls (among other places) in search of his preferred victim - attractive women around 19 or 20.

The only thing about that is that Ive always had some issues with it being February. I live in a neighboring state, and while it wouldnt be unheard of to go for a walk or hike on an unseasonably warm day, yes, we get sick of being a bit shut up inside heated buildings all winter, it still seems to me like a hell of a longshot for BG to choose to go there hoping to find young female victim(s). Unless he is a local who knows that (apparently?) High school kids hang out there.

Im curious what Sgt Holman's hunch was about this (in response to Alexis McAdam).

I believe he trolled/researched websites which have information about the bridge, and the area around it, for some time. Then recon'd it, as in he visited the site at least one time, in the months previous. I'm thinking maybe Summer, last year, and possibly the Fall/Autumn. We had an unusual freeze here in Indiana in December, about a week before Christmas.

November.was warm, for the most part. I'm picturing BG in the bridge area after the leaves fell, after Halloween. Scouting the area, taking notes, noting how often people get on the trail, etc. I went hiking twice in early November, and remember how beautiful and unusually warm it was.

I've thought for some time the time of year was just one variable which worked in his favor. This crime would have been more difficult to do, IMHO much more difficult to do, during the Summer and after school starts.

My BG had to have known certain things beforehand. Delphi schools had the day off. Unusually mild weather, for early February. It was sunny, that day. No snow or ice on the bridge or the area around it.Then we have all the variables...

It all had to fall together perfectly for BG, which to me explains why now we know that other trail users saw him that day. He was waiting until the 'perfect victims', or victim, fell into his cross hairs. He didn't care much about others seeing him, far as I can tell. It was a work day in Indiana, so there would be few working-age adults at the bridge, on an unusually mild February day.

Thinking out loud...

A lot of what we do here is 'Monday morning quarterbacking', as my dad used to say. Put yourselves in their 13/14 y/o shoes, though. To us, BG might look out of place, or there's some curiosity about why he's dressed a certain way, etc. Two girls that age may just look at him as being a bit odd, may have their guard up some, but they may not feel threatened, even with the guy walking across the bridge at a hurried pace.

I've mentioned before I could drive two miles down the road to Rural King, and see several BG's.

My BG was counting on that. Blend in. No logos on the clothing. Either bought his clothes right beforehand, new or at a Goodwill store, or some other sources. Or perhaps had the clothing in his 'pile'. If he's meticulous enough, maybe lined the driver's seat in his vehicle with plastic, to prevent fiber evidence from being left at the scene or on any victims.

BG could have walked the route I posted about in the last thread, perhaps several times, to get a feel for it, time himself, etc. Maybe he even called 911 under false pretenses, to "test" local LE/EMS/etc.. to test response time in Delphi, so if things didn't work out for him, he already had his escape route(cemetery, IMHO), picked out. I've read about various cases in recent years where people have used TracFones to test or deter local LE, it happens.

I just think BG looks at such scenarios as his "web", and he's the spider.

JMO

 

[Spellbound]

Please clarify, thanks.

I did, and hope to have a mod correct it..... soon?
Alexis stumbles over her words and sometimes is difficult to hear clearly. it should say:
A: [7.45]. is it a few people kind of , possibly that saw him, or there was more than a couple that called in, right?

Spellbound,

Thank-you SO much for enduring the numbness to transcribe some of that interview.

It is critically important to have concise information when trying to understand this case. It's a very worthwhile task you have done, and even if it is pasted elsewhere, at least people will be basing their thoughts on exactly what was said. It's kind of line the telephone game alot of times.

HUGE thanks and hats off!

WG

It's actually fun to do, so I don't mind if you all can be patient with me..... and correct any mistakes! I really don't care. After thinking about it more, I should feel honored that anyone thinks it was worth pasting somewhere else. But I hope they correct any errors, if they are going to use it with my name anywhere. :blushing:

 

[Spellbound]

I'm very sorry but please know we at Websluths appreciate your efforts very much.

Ahhh, all's good now. I just had to let it sink in that someone thought it worth reposting. But a good reminder of not to ever post anything, anywhere, if you don't want to seen somewhere other than where it was intended.

thanks!

 

[DeDee]

We have additional facts now:

- the girls crossed the creek,

- more than one person saw BG,

- Libby's phone was found.

Three issues we can lay to rest.

- the girls crossed the creek,

A link to LE stating this, please.

Didn't happen unless there is a picture of it, as arkansasmimi would say.

Those girls did not enter that rushing creek water that was below 40 degrees to get away from BG. Their cold, wet sneakers and clothing would bring down their internal body temperature to the same temperature as the water, very rapidly. HiTop tennis shoes are not fins and cannot be used as such.

 

[JnRyan]

BG could have walked the route I posted about in the last thread, perhaps several times, to get a feel for it, time himself, etc. Maybe he even called 911 under false pretenses, to "test" local LE/EMS/etc.. to test response time in Delphi, so if things didn't work out for him, he already had his escape route(cemetery, IMHO), picked out. I've read about various cases in recent years where people have used TracFones to test or deter local LE, it happens.

I just think BG looks at such scenarios as his "web", and he's the spider.

JMO

I really believe he had been at the trail before. That morning a couple of times? Years before when he was a teenager? He was able to look behind him and see quite a distance for possible witnesses, but at the end of the bridge he had to know what was there in the way of residences, barns, etc.

As far as his exit strategy through the cemetery, I would think someone saw him on the road. RL, perhaps? Someone else? I remember early on LE asked if anyone picked up a hitchhiker or saw someone hitchhiking and maybe that is why that statement was put out by LE.

 

[Falling Down]

A link to LE stating this, please.

Didn't happen unless there is a picture of it, as arkansasmimi would say.

Those girls did not enter that rushing creek water that was below 40 degrees to get away from BG. Their cold, wet sneakers and clothing would bring down their internal body temperature to the same temperature as the water, very rapidly. HiTop tennis shoes are not fins and cannot be used as such.

Or they were forced to do so.

JMO

 

[htiff]

A link to LE stating this, please.

Didn't happen unless there is a picture of it, as arkansasmimi would say.

Those girls did not enter that rushing creek water that was below 40 degrees to get away from BG. Their cold, wet sneakers and clothing would bring down their internal body temperature to the same temperature as the water, very rapidly. HiTop tennis shoes are not fins and cannot be used as such.

Link?

We don't know what they entered or did not enter. All we know is where they were when the phone recorded the suspect, and where they were found murdered. Exactly what happened between these two locations, and how the girls traveled to get where they got, is unknown to the public, and we don't even know if LE knows for absolute certainty what the exact route they took was.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

A link to LE stating this, please.

Didn't happen unless there is a picture of it, as arkansasmimi would say.

Those girls did not enter that rushing creek water that was below 40 degrees to get away from BG. Their cold, wet sneakers and clothing would bring down their internal body temperature to the same temperature as the water, very rapidly. HiTop tennis shoes are not fins and cannot be used as such.

Respectfully, read post #168.
Its all in the transcript that Spellbound so graciously transcribed for us.
(Start after where it says PART 2 in boldface.)
HTH.

 

[Spiritecho]

I thank you Spellbound! I know how hard it is to transcribe without a machine and trying to get the words right and do constant rewinds!

I snipped this part of Spellbounds post

A: When you walked down and I walked through, that was private property right where the bodies were found. Looking at it logistically from where they were on the bridge and to where their bodies were found, I know we talked about the terrain in the past. I know it's not an easy thing to navigate. Usually you might have to be familiar with the area. I mean, would it have been difficult for the girls to from where they were on the bridge to where they were found?

H: [10:49] Yeah. Absolutely. I think it would be difficult, obviously. They have to go through some pretty steep terrain in a wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it's uh ... and then to cross the creek. The creek, and obviously it's February, it's probably not the warmest . The weather was a warm day that day, but still the water temperature is probably cooler than the air temperature. So yeah, it would have been difficult for .... I mean, I don't think anybody, say on a walk, would walk that way.

The way I read this is they DID cross the creek.

Read her question and read his answer.

How else does anyone think they got back to the other side of the creek? He didn't march them back across the bridge. He didn't have a car and drive them around. He didn't have them walk up and around on the road.

I am not being snarky about this. This is MOO and logical. I am trying to understand how others think the girls got back to the other side of the creek.

 

[ezrah]

Spellbound,

Thank-you SO much for enduring the numbness to transcribe some of that interview.

It is critically important to have concise information when trying to understand this case. It's a very worthwhile task you have done, and even if it is pasted elsewhere, at least people will be basing their thoughts on exactly what was said. It's kind of line the telephone game alot of times.

HUGE thanks and hats off!

WG

Yes, thank you Spellbound! Your laborious transcribing is much appreciated.

 

[Falling Down]

I really believe he had been at the trail before. That morning a couple of times? Years before when he was a teenager? He was able to look behind him and see quite a distance for possible witnesses, but at the end of the bridge he had to know what was there in the way of residences, barns, etc.

As far as his exit strategy through the cemetery, I would think someone saw him on the road. RL, perhaps? Someone else? I remember early on LE asked if anyone picked up a hitchhiker or saw someone hitchhiking and maybe that is why that statement was put out by LE.

I don't remember specifics re: RL's timeline that day, but he was definitely not home for several hours, IIRC. Granted, his property is adjacent to the cemetery, but even if he was home when BG may have exited the cemetery, would he (RL) have noticed anything out of the ordinary? RL's neighbors?

My hunch is BG checked local properties to see if folks were home, perhaps even ringing doorbells and knocking on doors. At the very least, had observed activity in the general area of the bridge, possibly that morning. He could have seen RL leave for the errands he went to take care of, that day, and figured the 'old man' would be gone for hours. Same with neighbors. It's not farming season, per se, either.

Same with the property at the end of the road, the road under the SE end of the bridge. Did BG know nearby property owners were not home, in the hours before the murders?

I alluded to LE/EMS/etc. response, in another post. It takes roughly 6-7 minutes to walk from where the girls were dropped off, to the NW approach to the bridge. The SE end, while right over a county road which becomes a driveway, is still minutes away from a more heavily-traveled county road. That end would be accessed more easily (obviously), by LE (etc,), if I'm reading earlier posts and MSM accounts right. Yet we still have the relatively short distance from the SE end of the bridge, to the CS, and on to the cemetery.

If the girls or a family member had alerted the local 911 center (say after a text), what would have been the response, and where, exactly, would the responders have gone to? Could BG have made it out of there, in time? Escaped the general area?

A member shared some threads ago there's a safety feature on cell phones, it may vary iPhone vs. Android, or whatever. Mine is a quick 3 squeezes of the power button on the side of the phone. I set mine to alert a family member and a friend of mine, it sends a selfie pic, grid (GPS) coordinates, etc. I highly recommend folks set up their wireless phones for this feature.

JMO

 

[cluciano63]

LE may know a lot about what happened but it is pretty clear they still don't know enough to point to the perp. Frustrating, as it sure seems like they should have a lot more evidence than is usual in murder cases like this (i.e ones without an obvious suspect and/or motive.) jmo

 

[Yellow Rose]

I recall the photographer saying that clothing was found in the creek/river. I always assumed at that point that the girls walked/were made to walk across the water to where their bodies were eventually found. I think the detective just confirmed that for me.

 

[DeDee]

I thank you Spellbound! I know how hard it is to transcribe without a machine and trying to get the words right and do constant rewinds!

I snipped this part of Spellbounds post

A: When you walked down and I walked through, that was private property right where the bodies were found. Looking at it logistically from where they were on the bridge and to where their bodies were found, I know we talked about the terrain in the past. I know it's not an easy thing to navigate. Usually you might have to be familiar with the area. I mean, would it have been difficult for the girls to from where they were on the bridge to where they were found?

H: [10:49] Yeah. Absolutely. I think it would be difficult, obviously. They have to go through some pretty steep terrain in a wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it's uh ... and then to cross the creek. The creek, and obviously it's February, it's probably not the warmest . The weather was a warm day that day, but still the water temperature is probably cooler than the air temperature. So yeah, it would have been difficult for .... I mean, I don't think anybody, say on a walk, would walk that way.

The way I read this is they DID cross the creek.

Read her question and read his answer.

How else does anyone think they got back to the other side of the creek? He didn't march them back across the bridge. He didn't have a car and drive them around. He didn't have them walk up and around on the road.

I am not being snarky about this. This is MOO and logical. I am trying to understand how others think the girls got back to the other side of the creek.

We can disagree and still be friends. I think the Sgt. is explaining the difficulty of doing such a thing as crossing the creek almost to the point of the impossibility of it. There was no island that day as it was covered with water. I do not think the girls could have made it a quarter of a mile in near freezing cold water. Our bodies are not equipped to handle those low temps for that length of time. Besides their wet clothes and shoes would be slowing them down tremendously. Furthermore, they would be fighting/ swimming/walking against the current. It seems logical to me that they did not enter the creek. Also, how do you know he did not have a car?

 

[htiff]

We can disagree and still be friends. I think the Sgt. is explaining the difficulty of doing such a thing as crossing the creek almost to the point of the impossibility of it. There was no island that day as it was covered with water. I do not think the girls could have made it a quarter of a mile in near freezing cold water. Our bodies are not equipped to handle those low temps for that length of time. Besides their wet clothes and shoes would be slowing them down tremendously. Furthermore, they would be fighting/ swimming/walking against the current. It seems logical to me that they did not enter the creek. Also, how do you know he did not have a car?

Can you support this with any fact? An article? A news report? Anything?

The place where Abigail and Liberty took the shots we have seen and where they were found, would not have been easily reached by vehicle, unless the killer first forced them from the park to where a vehicle was parked--and no one from LE or any source has suggested that these girls were transported by vehicle.

 

[Jabarn]

I don't remember specifics re: RL's timeline that day, but he was definitely not home for several hours, IIRC. Granted, his property is adjacent to the cemetery, but even if he was home when BG may have exited the cemetery, would he (RL) have noticed anything out of the ordinary? RL's neighbors?

My hunch is BG checked local properties to see if folks were home, perhaps even ringing doorbells and knocking on doors. At the very least, had observed activity in the general area of the bridge, possibly that morning. He could have seen RL leave for the errands he went to take care of, that day, and figured the 'old man' would be gone for hours. Same with neighbors. It's not farming season, per se, either.

Same with the property at the end of the road, the road under the SE end of the bridge. Did BG know nearby property owners were not home, in the hours before the murders?

I alluded to LE/EMS/etc. response, in another post. It takes roughly 6-7 minutes to walk from where the girls were dropped off, to the NW approach to the bridge. The SE end, while right over a county road which becomes a driveway, is still minutes away from a more heavily-traveled county road. That end would be accessed more easily (obviously), by LE (etc,), if I'm reading earlier posts and MSM accounts right. Yet we still have the relatively short distance from the SE end of the bridge, to the CS, and on to the cemetery.

If the girls or a family member had alerted the local 911 center (say after a text), what would have been the response, and where, exactly, would the responders have gone to? Could BG have made it out of there, in time? Escaped the general area?

A member shared some threads ago there's a safety feature on cell phones, it may vary iPhone vs. Android, or whatever. Mine is a quick 3 squeezes of the power button on the side of the phone. I set mine to alert a family member and a friend of mine, it sends a selfie pic, grid (GPS) coordinates, etc. I highly recommend folks set up their wireless phones for this feature.

JMO

So much of what was speculated in the beginning looks to be truth after this recent information. The big one for me is the girls did cross the creek.

Another aspect I have speculated is the suspect was hiding out in the vicinity, and lurked about in the outbuildings on nearby properties, and may have very well left some evidence there.

 

[mtnlites]

Why didnt they run?
If they had a bad feeling about this guy why stay there let him get closer and closer.

1. Maybe they DID run. Maybe they started running and he then pulled a gun on them and threatened them.
2. Maybe they didn't realize how bad the situation was until it was too late. Up until he accosted them, they might have just thought that he was a creepy dude eyeballing them. We are talking young girls here in a public place. They may have felt safe.

When my mother and I were attacked, we were aware of someone walking unnaturally close behind us. We shrugged it off at first and then picked up our speed. The guy behind us did as well. We weren't totally panicked, however, because we were on a city street and could see people both ahead of us and behind us. I looked over at her and said, "I'm getting kind of freaked out." She agreed and we pulled out our phones and began dialing the friend who was meant to meet us up ahead. Before we could even finish dialing the number, the guy had sped up and was holding us at gunpoint.

We don't know why the girls did what they did because we don't know the details of the situation. And even if we did, we (as adults) can't question their responses because we weren't there and we have different life experiences. You never know how you're going to react in these situations. I was trained in self defense. I'd always said that in that kind of situation I would run, scream, and fight. I didn't do any of those things.