IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[Falling Down]

We can disagree and still be friends. I think the Sgt. is explaining the difficulty of doing such a thing as crossing the creek almost to the point of the impossibility of it. There was no island that day as it was covered with water. I do not think the girls could have made it a quarter of a mile in near freezing cold water. Our bodies are not equipped to handle those low temps for that length of time. Besides their wet clothes and shoes would be slowing them down tremendously. Furthermore, they would be fighting/ swimming/walking against the current. It seems logical to me that they did not enter the creek. Also, how do you know he did not have a car?

There is a sand bar, rocks under the water, and a short distance across the creek.

They didn't walk a "quarter of a mile" in the water, it was maybe 20-30 or so feet, not 1,320 feet.

 

[htiff]

There is a sand bar, rocks under the water, and a short distance across the creek.

They didn't walk a "quarter of a mile" in the water, it was maybe 20-30 or so feet, not 1,320 feet.

With all due respect, we don't know what these girls did, other than the initial photos. Or where they were forced to walk. This was an abduction, not a picnic.

 

[Spiritecho]

We can disagree and still be friends. I think the Sgt. is explaining the difficulty of doing such a thing as crossing the creek almost to the point of the impossibility of it. There was no island that day as it was covered with water. I do not think the girls could have made it a quarter of a mile in near freezing cold water. Our bodies are not equipped to handle those low temps for that length of time. Besides their wet clothes and shoes would be slowing them down tremendously. Furthermore, they would be fighting/ swimming/walking against the current. It seems logical to me that they did not enter the creek. Also, how do you know he did not have a car?

HMMM...did he have a car parked there under the bridge? Has anyone mentioned a car under the bridge? Logic says to me, he didn't have a car on the road, by or under the bridge. Had he loaded them in a car, we may still be looking for them.
MOO

Please offer your theory on HOW the girls got from the SE portion of the bridge, back across the road and the creek, to be found 1/2 mile upstream on the other side.

 

[mtnlites]

There is a sand bar, rocks under the water, and a short distance across the creek.

They didn't walk a "quarter of a mile" in the water, it was maybe 20-30 or so feet, not 1,320 feet.

IMO, if they were trying to get away from someone, and panicking, I don't think they'd worry about water temperature or depth. I think they'd just go for it. Same goes for them if someone was waving a weapon at them and making them go.

 

[Jabarn]

1. Maybe they DID run. Maybe they started running and he then pulled a gun on them and threatened them.
2. Maybe they didn't realize how bad the situation was until it was too late. Up until he accosted them, they might have just thought that he was a creepy dude eyeballing them. We are talking young girls here in a public place. They may have felt safe.

When my mother and I were attacked, we were aware of someone walking unnaturally close behind us. We shrugged it off at first and then picked up our speed. The guy behind us did as well. We weren't totally panicked, however, because we were on a city street and could see people both ahead of us and behind us. I looked over at her and said, "I'm getting kind of freaked out." She agreed and we pulled out our phones and began dialing the friend who was meant to meet us up ahead. Before we could even finish dialing the number, the guy had sped up and was holding us at gunpoint.

We don't know why the girls did what they did because we don't know the details of the situation. And even if we did, we (as adults) can't question their responses because we weren't there and we have different life experiences. You never know how you're going to react in these situations. I was trained in self defense. I'd always said that in that kind of situation I would run, scream, and fight. I didn't do any of those things.

For those who have taken the time to examine the police scanners, something likely happened under the bridge. The girls were *possibly* carried, forced, or ran across the creek. Why in the world there were no witnesses stepping forward at the time with credible information on the suspect could mean they were not paying much attention at the time, and only in hindsight put it all together.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Well, you can pick up where I left off or I can continue. It is HARD without my machine to pause. Going back just a few seconds is really difficult when you have two screens to deal with!

FWIW .... apparently someone has already copy/pasted this to TOPIX and I am one very unhappy camper! :fuse::fuse: Do you even have a clue how hard it is to do without a proper machine, and with arthritic fingers? Now, if they asked me first, I may have said "go ahead" but without permission of the poster that is really rudeness to the max. :sheesh:

JMO

This is an important reminder to us all. The vast majority of sleuthers on these threads are really terrific people trying to help with research, subject matter expertise, *transcribing*, mapping, timelining, prayers, and so forth. There are, however, a very small percentage who fall outside honorable intention. These are the gore ghouls, attention seekers, trolls, Perps, and so forth. Fortunately, our Mods run a tight ship and quickly keep threads respectful and productive. None the less, this is a good reminder.

Thank you again Spellbound for being someone who is always contributing materially to these threads. So very much appreciated!

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

So much of what was speculated in the beginning looks to be truth after this recent information. The big one for me is the girls did cross the creek.

Another aspect I have speculated is the suspect was hiding out in the vicinity, and lurked about in the outbuildings on nearby properties, and may have very well left some evidence there.

JMO...
IIRC RL had called LE because of someone breaking into or stealing from one of his outbuildings. Does anyone have a link to how long that happened before February 13? Anyone think there's a remote chance it could have been BG scouting the area?
This is JMO. Pure speculation. No fact other than RL having called LE about someone having been in his building(s) and that was discussed in at least one of the previous 64 threads.

 

[htiff]

IMO, if they were trying to get away from someone, and panicking, I don't think they'd worry about water temperature or depth. I think they'd just go for it. Same goes for them if someone was waving a weapon at them and making them go.

I agree. Though there isn't specific evidence given to us to support this, killing someone and being in fear of being killed, will push people to do all kinds of things they wouldn't, if they were simply "hiking."

Both the killer and the victims, were involved in actions to the extreme. The killer wanted the girls, wherever he wanted them--I doubt comfort was a priority for him. The girls were trying to save their own lives--and people will do almost anything to survive.

 

[Falling Down]

JMO...
IIRC RL had called LE because of someone breaking into or stealing from one of his outbuildings. Does anyone have a link to how long that happened before February 13? Anyone think there's a remote chance it could have been BG scouting the area?
This is JMO. Pure speculation. No fact other than RL having called LE about someone having been in his building(s) and that was discussed in at least one of the previous 64 threads.

I don't have a link handy, but it was 2014 or 2015, IIRC.

 

[Tinypeeps]

I also want to clear up a misconception concerning Libby's phone. LE said the phone was found with the girls. She did not toss away the phone.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

No, that is not what was said. Sigh. It was found "in the same general area" and she still could have tossed it.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I don't have a link handy, but it was 2014 or 2015, IIRC.

Thanks, Falling Down!
JMO...
If it was a couple years ago or more, it probably wasn't BG.
Or even more frightening, he may have been planning it for a long time.
Which brings to mind all the parallels with Lyric and Elizabeth in Iowa...
It's feeling like one step up, two steps back.
JMO.

 

[finine]

This is an important reminder to us all. The vast majority of sleuthers on these threads are really terrific people trying to help with research, subject matter expertise, *transcribing*, mapping, timelining, prayers, and so forth. There are, however, a very small percentage who fall outside honorable intention. These are the gore ghouls, attention seekers, trolls, Perps, and so forth. Fortunately, our Mods run a tight ship and quickly keep threads respectful and productive. None the less, this is a good reminder.

Thank you again Spellbound for being someone who is always contributing materially to these threads. So very much appreciated!

One doesn't even need to be a member here to access these comments, they're viewable to anyone regardless of whether they are logged in. The scanner thread is located in the private forums, which do require a login.

I'd recommend transcribing to an attachment and adding a watermark if you do not want your work copied and pasted elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Falling Down]

I agree. Though there isn't specific evidence given to us to support this, killing someone and being in fear of being killed, will push people to do all kinds of things they wouldn't, if they were simply "hiking."

Both the killer and the victims, were involved in actions to the extreme. The killer wanted the girls, wherever he wanted them--I doubt comfort was a priority for him. The girls were trying to save their own lives--and people will do almost anything to survive.

I alluded to it in another thread, these two girls ended up in his web.

Furthermore, IMHO he 'drove' them to the CS, as if they were cattle to be slaughtered. Forced them across the short distance to the creek, across the creek, and to their deaths.

Much easier to do on a mild Feb. 13th.

JMO

 

[deedee21]

JMO...
IIRC RL had called LE because of someone breaking into or stealing from one of his outbuildings. Does anyone have a link to how long that happened before February 13? Anyone think there's a remote chance it could have been BG scouting the area?
This is JMO. Pure speculation. No fact other than RL having called LE about someone having been in his building(s) and that was discussed in at least one of the previous 64 threads.

This crossed my mind also. I also wonder if its someone who visited the cemetary that day?

 

[Tinypeeps]

I thank you Spellbound! I know how hard it is to transcribe without a machine and trying to get the words right and do constant rewinds!

I snipped this part of Spellbounds post



The way I read this is they DID cross the creek.

Read her question and read his answer.

How else does anyone think they got back to the other side of the creek? He didn't march them back across the bridge. He didn't have a car and drive them around. He didn't have them walk up and around on the road.

I am not being snarky about this. This is MOO and logical. I am trying to understand how others think the girls got back to the other side of the creek.

Spirit, I agree with you, Holman's comments were pretty clear. Oh and ppl think he made them walk back across the bridge and around or that he took them away from the scene and then dumped their bodies there. Or something like that.

 

[Falling Down]

Thanks, Falling Down!
JMO...
If it was a couple years ago or more, it probably wasn't BG.
Or even more frightening, he may have been planning it for a long time.
Which brings to mind all the parallels with Lyric and Elizabeth in Iowa...
It's feeling like one step up, two steps back.
JMO.

When this info was shared here, I thought the same thing.

Either a random deal, which happens, and we have major drug problems in rural Indiana.

Or, and this is a big "or", BG was testing the waters, so to speak.

Far-fetched? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[htiff]

I alluded to it in another thread, these two girls ended up in his web.

Furthermore, IMHO he 'drove' them to the CS, as if they were cattle to be slaughtered. Forced them across the short distance to the creek, across the creek, and to their deaths.

Much easier to do on a mild Feb. 13th.

JMO

Yes. We haven't been told exact routes, but yes, all parties involved were operating in the extreme of "predator" and "determined survivors"---comfort was not a priority for anyone. Any of these people might have been willing to endure discomfort to achieve their goals. And those girls got across that stream, somehow.

 

[minazoe]

LE never said the "remaining" audio/video. They said "the recording contains...." They have also stated that they played "more" audio to the families so that doesn't necessarily mean "all" of it.

The stuff of nightmares might still exist.

MOO

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

the probability that the man was following behind the girls, i think rules out the notion that they came upon something or witnessed something and were then murdered . MOOSKI

 

[minazoe]

Good point, maybe they did the thing where they just talked really loudly about random stuff to seem nonchalant, all the while recording him. If they did see something they weren't supposed to, they could also have used chatting to try to be like "look we are talking about our crushes not your meth lab that we didn't just see"

what evidence is there of a meth lab? police are trained to find meth labs, you can smell them and they leave scars where ever they are, there is no known evidence that the girls stumbled on to a meth lab. I think we should rule it out as there is nothing to suggest it. MOO

 

[ImnoSherlock]

the probability that the man was following behind the girls, i think rules out the notion that they came upon something or witnessed something and were then murdered . MOOSKI

That's one of the more sensible thing's I've read today.