IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

[Shiressleuth]

:moo: Agree. It's not new information for us, but new information to get this into the media again... so THAT IS GOOD!

I was watching an ID show just a few nights ago, where the family had media with them going to a ... hmmm, what are they called... not a palmreader but a ???.

RSBM
Medium? Fortune teller? Psychic? Quack?
Pick one.

 

[htiff]

Noting.. for the umpteenth time.... LE said to DISREGARD cap/hat.

:moo:

They didn't state to disregard the hat. They only said that it might not be accurate. But if the hat is a flat-cap it might indicate region. Different styles of dress are more prevalent in certain places. If he had a cowboy hat on, this might make one wonder if he was from Texas, Wyoming or Montana. Doesn't necessarily mean this. But if he also spoke in a southern dialect, this might begin to point at an area he is from.

The three words we heard sound like a mid-west dialect to me. If flat-cap is something worn a lot in that region--MAYBE, possibly, this points to something. Who knows? Can't hurt to discuss it.

Anything that might trigger memory, or indicate one region over another might be relevant when taken in with other facts. Discouraging curiosity seems counter to the effort. I just read pages of posts with factually inaccurate comments about DNA, what was stated about the DNA, and how DNA is examined, I think one inquiry into the hat can hardly hurt things.

 

[Eileen730]

They may well have done-we don't know do we?

Im sure LE knows by the audio.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Im sure LE knows by the audio.

I'm sure if LE knew and had evidence they would just love to charge the perp. They need to make sure the charges will stick. JMO.
Sorry Eileen, I misunderstood. You mean LE would know if the girls ran? I am sure LE do know and is not something they will ever forget.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

It was stated to "focus on the features".

They didn't state to disregard the hat. They only said that it might not be accurate. But if the hat is a flat-cap it might indicate region. Different styles of dress are more prevalent in certain places. If he had a cowboy hat on, this might make one wonder if he was from Texas, Wyoming or Montana. Doesn't necessarily mean this. But if he also spoke in a southern dialect, this might begin to point at an area he is from.

The three words we heard sound like a mid-west dialect to me. If flat-cap is something worn a lot in that region--MAYBE, possibly, this points to something. Who knows? Can't hurt to discuss it.

Anything that might trigger memory, or indicate one region over another might be relevant when taken in with other facts. Discouraging curiosity seems counter to the effort. I just read pages of posts with factually inaccurate comments about DNA, what was stated about the DNA, and how DNA is examined, I think one inquiry into the hat can hardly hurt things.

 

[htiff]

It was stated to "focus on the features".

And...???

I did focus on the features. And now I'm focusing on the hat.

You don't have to. The same way I scroll past a lot of completely erroneous info about the DNA....just sayin'. Scroll and roll.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thinking a little more about who the guy is who did this:

The impression I'm left with from all the news coverage is that this man was able to corral and control these girls very quickly. And though they were young, they were smart and they were old enough to run, so he seems to have understood how to subdue them, in a very short amount of time. That might indicate the type of weapon he had. And if he had an actual weapon, then he came prepared to do something to someone.

And the fact that he was brazen enough to abduct two older children, at once, in broad daylight, in an area where another adult could, easily have appeared to interrupt the abduction at any moment, indicates that he may have done something like this before. And gotten away with it. Maybe it wasn't a murder the other times. Maybe it was something else. But he's brazen. And confident.

With all the media coverage he has been able to remain under the radar for 6 months. And at this point, he could be anywhere. And it seems very possible that he's altered his appearance by now.

He must have some kind of resources. And the ability to travel. I doubt he has a regular 9-5 job, but he probably has some form of income and he probably owns a vehicle. He likely frequents areas like the Delphi trail.

But again, he could be anywhere. I almost wish they would make composites of this guy with different facial hair, or no facial hair. No hat. So that people can imagine him with an altered appearance. Because someone could be looking at him right now, and he may not look like the composite. It's really scary. Maybe before he didn't go after children. Maybe his MO is completely one of opportunity, so if you are looking for like-crimes it might not be a crime against a child, but simply someone assaulted in a park-like area.

He seems so comfortable in that realm, it's hard to imagine this was his first time doing something like this.

What IF:
he had had it all: a home, a job, a business, a wife, a dog, a SUV, a motorcycle, a gun, hunting/fishing events, incidents with police (sometimes with a tendency to violence), his beer
he had still: a home, a wife, a dog, a SUV, maybe a motorcycle, a gun, his beer (February 17)
he didn't have any more (in his eyes): a meaningful life, a friendly environment at home, a future he would like to experience
he did have: anger issues since more than 20 years, an overwhelmingly feeling of injustice as a citizen, an almost autistic tunnel vision on his problems, his beer
he hated: pubescent teenage girls from foreign families (with a certain reason for his hate)
he had even: a flat hat in combination with standard clothing
What IF:
he had a job/business with opportunity for his own time management
he had a job/business with opportunity for crossing the border between states
he had a job/business with opportunity to have an alibi at all times he traveled
he had one time stumbled over female teens being just in a very bad mood
he reacted on his frustration, became violent and had to cover up
he managed to leave the CS and to get away
in February he strolled around, in his mind fear to finally get caught for his crimes, in any way without acceptable future
he met Abby and Libby and his frustration came to a level like never before
he managed to escape from Delphi and return to his home only to have his image on 6000 billboards some time later
he knew: he just had ruined his life more than ever before and he had to make an end to all this with something, one would call suicide by police
What IF:
he is dead now and there is only an urn left of him (no DNA)
What IF:
his widow never would help in the missing/murdered girls cases

Please, notice: What IF only!!

 

[Wondergirl]

I haven't been on the girl's thread in weeks, and I do apologize if this is a repeat.

After listening to the RAW footage of the interview with LE today, I wanted to note a few things.

1. Regarding similarities to other crimes:

Nothing across the country is popping up EXCEPT the Iowa girls. LE in both jurisdictions have been back and forth with each other. Regrettably there is no COD in the Iowa case, given the length of time after their murder that their bodies were found. It's not to say that he would kill them the same way, however.

2. Behavioral Analysis Unit from Quantico:

They have been assisting in the case since the beginning

3. Digital Media Recovery Specialists

They have had help from local, state and federal specialists recovering phone and computer digital evidence

4. Social Media Specialists

While the social media, facebook and blog issues have loomed largely negative and bad in the case, they have also helped the specialists gather information.

5. Lab Work

While he is not a Lab guy, he does talk to the lab pretty much everyday on this case. There is alot of DNA, and they do have alot more evidence in this case than many others.

I strongly recommend anyone following this case intensely to listen to this RAW footage of the interview. I could write about 3 or 4 news articles myself on the information gleaned. It will become apparent just how brief the news really is in their articles, when you watch this interview.

https://player.ooyala.com/static/v4...5267225247&pcode=A5YjUyOju0deP9y9BK28b-61JYT5


WG

 

[htiff]

What IF:
he had had it all: a home, a job, a business, a wife, a dog, a SUV, a motorcycle, a gun, hunting/fishing events, incidents with police (sometimes with a tendency to violence), his beer
he had still: a home, a wife, a dog, a SUV, maybe a motorcycle, a gun, his beer (February 17)
he didn't have any more (in his eyes): a meaningful life, a friendly environment at home, a future he would like to experience
he did have: anger issues since more than 20 years, an overwhelmingly feeling of injustice as a citizen, an almost autistic tunnel vision on his problems, his beer
he hated: pubescent teenage girls from foreign families (with a certain reason for his hate)
he had even: a flat hat in combination with standard clothing
What IF:
he had a job/business with opportunity for his own time management
he had a job/business with opportunity for crossing the border between states
he had a job/business with opportunity to have an alibi at all times he traveled
he had one time stumbled over female teens being just in a very bad mood
he reacted on his frustration, became violent and had to cover up
he managed to leave the CS and to get away
in February he strolled around, in his mind fear to finally get caught for his crimes, in any way without acceptable future
he met Abby and Libby and his frustration came to a level like never before
he managed to escape from Delphi and return to his home only to have his image on 6000 billboards some time later
he knew: he just had ruined his life more than ever before and he had to make an end to all this with something, one would call suicide by police
What IF:
he is dead now and there is only an urn left of him (no DNA)
What IF:
his widow never would help in the missing/murdered girls cases

Please, notice: What IF only!!

Maybe.

 

[tlcya]

"We feel this is very important because it actually gives a better view of the person in the picture that you see down below," Sgt. Kim Riley said at a press conference on Monday morning. "It shows a little more facial features it gives you a little more information on what we’re looking at, who the suspect might be, and that’s why we feel that it’s very important that this picture is out there at this time." Police say it's very important for the public to focus on the facial features.

Video of presser (including quote about hat from LE) at bottom of page

I encourage you all not to bicker about the significance (if any) of the flat cap depicted in the sketch. Agree to disagree and scroll and roll when warranted.

 

[kstephens98]

RSBM
Medium? Fortune teller? Psychic? Quack?
Pick one.

All the same, imo. [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[cluciano63]

I have seen crime shows where LE has asked for DNA from everyone they interview to rule them out later when evidence is complete, as well as to see how people react when asked.

 

[terpstra1]

Imo they have touch and transfer DNA. We all have others DNA on us all the time. If he touched them there's a good chance he left DNA, But BG's will be mixed with all the others. it takes a long time to isolate just one persons.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[terpstra1]

I also want to clear up a misconception concerning Libby's phone. LE said the phone was found with the girls. She did not toss away the phone.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[madduck74]

This is pure speculation. I'm a big believer in brainstorming and a few things I thought about while thinking about if BG "got lucky" and just happened to be there at the same time.

There are trail cams (I know cell service is questionable in the area) that send SMS or emails to an account when pictures are taken. It's possible he had a cam set up and was near enough to get a notification that the girls were there and act on it.

Also, while searching for the white object around his neck area, I found back pack type harnesses that hold drones. This type of set-up could have been used to scout the area.

Very unlikely, I know. Just thinking...

 

[htiff]

I have seen crime shows where LE has asked for DNA from everyone they interview to rule them out later when evidence is complete, as well as to see how people react when asked.

That seems possible in this case. But also DNA testing has advanced to such a degree that scientists can now identify the most minute quantities of DNA on us, and create profiles. Which means we may carry identifiable touch DNA from others for weeks after directly making contact, or receiving that DNA by way of a transfer from an object or a third party. Depending on how often that sweater gets washed, or your hands get washed, the DNA might last for weeks....

And with two young girls, who were in school the first half of the Monday they went missing on--who hug, and bump into and high-five other students, every day. Whose parents and family may also be transferring touch DNA onto them (from people they have direct contact with), not only on the day of the murders, but if that hoodie hasn't been cleaned in a while, maybe weeks prior---the amount of DNA that can be tested and result in a profile now, is enormous. Transfer DNA can pass between more than two people. Your best friend can high-five someone, and then you shake that friend's hand, and voila, you have both person's DNA on your hands. And then if you touch your jacket, it can all transfer to the jacket. Just think about how many people one comes into direct and indirect contact with in any given day.

And if you don't have a subject to test these profiles against--say a known suspect, then it's a needle in a haystack search. First they have to rule certain DNA out, in order to find a profile that "shouldn't" be there, and then might be the killer's. And most of us don't have our DNA already on file. So they have to get the DNA of family and friends and teachers and anyone whose DNA might have landed on the girls, by any means of transference---generate profiles and compare ALL of these to the DNA found on the girls.

This has to be such a mind-boggling process of elimination.

These investigators are doing a really hard job. And they seem to be doing it well.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Imo they have touch and transfer DNA. We all have others DNA on us all the time. If he touched them there's a good chance he left DNA, But BG's will be mixed with all the others. it takes a long time to isolate just one persons.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

JMO...
I was thinking about this, too. I think it would be extremely difficult to kidnap (maneuvering them from the bridge to the CS) and murder one, let alone two, people and not have any physical contact with them at all. Not completely impossible, just extremely difficult. And unlikely.
JMO.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

That seems possible in this case. But also DNA testing has advanced to such a degree that scientists can now identify the most minute quantities of DNA on us, and create profiles. Which means we may carry identifiable touch DNA from others for weeks after directly making contact, or receiving that DNA by way of a transfer from an object or a third party. Depending on how often that sweater gets washed, or your hands get washed, the DNA might last for weeks....

And with two young girls, who were in school the first half of the Monday they went missing on--who hug, and bump into and high-five other students, every day. Whose parents and family may also be transferring touch DNA onto them (from people they have direct contact with), not only on the day of the murders, but if that hoodie hasn't been cleaned in a while, maybe weeks prior---the amount of DNA that can be tested and result in a profile now, is enormous. Transfer DNA can pass between more than two people. Your best friend can high-five someone, and then you shake that friend's hand, and voila, you have both person's DNA on your hands. And then if you touch your jacket, it can all transfer to the jacket. Just think about how many people one comes into direct and indirect contact with in any given day.

And if you don't have a subject to test these profiles against--say a known suspect, then it's a needle in a haystack search. First they have to rule certain DNA out, in order to find a profile that "shouldn't" be there, and then might be the killer's. And most of us don't have our DNA already on file. So they have to get the DNA of family and friends and teachers and anyone whose DNA might have landed on the girls, by any means of transference---generate profiles and compare ALL of these to the DNA found on the girls.

This has to be such a mind-boggling process of elimination.

These investigators are doing a really hard job. And they seem to be doing it well.

RBBM

They were not in school that day. They had all Friday and Monday off school because their district didn't use all the allotted snow days that winter.

 

[htiff]

RBBM

They were not in school that day. They had all Friday and Monday off school because their district didn't use all the allotted snow days that winter.

I read that they had a half day of school, and it was from a pretty reliable source. I'll see if I can find it.

But regardless, even without attending school that morning, kids are touching things all over the place. And as the investigator stated in the interview there are just so many individuals to test. He even talks about how long DNA can stay on a person. We don't only hold DNA from those we have direct contact with. We are basically picking up DNA from all kinds of people, all the time. And testing now can identify a lot more of this touch and transfer DNA than was possible before.

It's actually become a bit of a problem. In some ways its too much info.

 

[terpstra1]

"We feel this is very important because it actually gives a better view of the person in the picture that you see down below," Sgt. Kim Riley said at a press conference on Monday morning. "It shows a little more facial features it gives you a little more information on what we’re looking at, who the suspect might be, and that’s why we feel that it’s very important that this picture is out there at this time." Police say it's very important for the public to focus on the facial features.

Video of presser (including quote about hat from LE) at bottom of page

I encourage you all not to bicker about the significance (if any) of the flat cap depicted in the sketch. Agree to disagree and scroll and roll when warranted.

I'm sure some will disagree with me but imo he's wearing that cap under his hood. LE said there was several people who saw him on the trails that day. They didn't just come up with some random hat. If he was smart he got rid of it.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk