IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

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Long time lurker, haven't posted in so long. This case hits me hard. Every day I check for an arrest. Every day I hope for justice. Nothing more to add to this conversation than that. My heart aches for these girls and their families. Thanks to all of you for doing what you do.
 
After spending a lot of time in the woods, IMO, we're not very perceptive, especially when it comes to things we're not looking for. In addition, it really is difficult to see things through trees. There's always movement going on in the woods, even after the leaves have fallen; branches moving, fallen leaves blowing, water rushing, etc. To someone not looking for people, I think someone walking, especially at a distance would blend in with the movement and just register as static/noise. There would be breaks as people moved behind obstacles (trees, rocks, bends, etc), so at quick glance, they may not be visible.

Looking at the map, it looks as though the bridge would have been the best possible place to see BG and the girls if the timing was right. But it's likely the worst place to take your eyes off of your path. I also don't know how common it is for trail walkers to meander off the trail and down the creek. If it's fairly common, it might not have registered even if someone was spotted. The people under the bridge were likely spotted because of proximity.



Snipped for space- I think BG could have been a decent ways away and heard a car door shut. For some reason, that sound seems to travel well through the woods (it also makes the roosting turkeys gobble). And being teenage girls, it's quite possible they could have been talking or laughing and been heard by someone in the distance. I don't think he needed to be on the trail at all to hear or see them.

I'm interested in the Hoosier Harvestore/U-store. I believe the home marked as the Harvestore might be the office, but I believe the long metal building next to the shorter building about midway between the Nature Preserve marker and 25 is likely where things are stored. I'd be interested to know from locals if this is correct, and if so, how much traffic it gets on a daily basis. It would be easy to see from the buildings to the pull off/ parking area by the trail.



While I can't answer with any certainty, my guess is someone screaming might not even be noticed, as sad as I am to say that. Depending on how far away the closest people were to where the girls were killed, it may have been hard to hear anyways. There appears to be a bend in the creek near the CS that might absorb some sound or cause it not to travel well towards the bridge. I'm sure there was also the sound of the creek.

Or someone did hear something and just hasn't made it known to the public.

Or there was no screaming at all. Shock and terror can make people do unpredictable things, like freezing instead of running, staring wide eyed instead of reacting, quietly sobbing instead of screaming.
Your explanations are very helpful and I would also refer people to the Snapchat pic of Abbey with the woods in the background. This shows the difficulty seeing through the woods and across in the direction of the CS and the cemetery. It looks to be visibly impenetrable. It is approximately 400 metres to the CS and if there were screams or gunshots then there were no witnesses around or it would have been reported by now IMO.
 
IMO, there is no way the perp was playing a game of catch and release. Why would he want to be potentially identified? No way.

I never, for a moment, thought he was playing a game of "catch and release." But, I don't think he would have wanted "evidence" in his car or two bodies, so they would have to remain alive until he could get them back to the crime scene (If his car ever left the cemetery area). Don't think he could carry both, or even one, for that matter. IF there was a car involved and IF they were assaulted in the car, he would have had to kill them in the car and carry their bodies to where they were located, or force them out to walk to a CS where he planned to dispose of both. Easier to let victims walk than to murder and try to carry two bodies. If I were bound and gagged but could walk, I'D RUN LIKE H even if he was right behind me.

Personally, I don't think they were put in a vehicle unless that vehicle remained parked while they were assaulted. Why would he leave the scene and then come back and dump them by himself? I tend to agree with GH assessment. I don't believe they ever left RL's property once they arrived. JMO. IMHO. MOO. But, I do wonder about hypothermia and how that could have come about, etc.
 
on the first page of every thread are links to all threads, maps, media, etc
Unfortunately I have found you can only go back one thread at a time until a certain point and then all the prior numbers can be found. Another way is to click on your profile or someone else's then select the posts and choose an old one which will take you back too.
 
Perhaps this has been asked and answered, but I missed it.
I would like to know where the girls were that morning....before being dropped off. I would also like to know where they were when they made the plans to go for the hike.
Maybe he overheard them discussing the planned hike?

AFAIK, LE has not released that info, nor has it been reported in MSM.

Edit: I'd like to know this,too. Was their day planned ahead of time? Was this spur of the moment? Who else knew about their plans if this wasn't spur of the moment?

Hoping we can get confirmation from an accredited source soon, not SM rumors or other sources that cannot be sited on WS. Along with whether or not they crossed the creek and the vehicle and the number of crime scenes (if they were moved and returned) and....
 
What is your theory behind this man hitch hiking? I haven't understood LE's reasoning in this yet, he just committed horrid acts, why risk hitch hiking is what I wonder. And if he was hitch hiking, that means he had no vehicle or else LE would have found an abandoned vehicle. MOO

And someone would remember a wet hitchhiker likely covered in blood....


Always my opinion only [emoji230]
 
Q: anyone have any thoughts on what police meant early on by a "twist" in this case?
only thing I can think of is if this comment was made prior to police releasing photos & audio of perp. If so, that might have been the "twist". Thoughts?
I think the twist is that they have the audio of the actual abduction and murders. Can't think what else it could be. I don't think that has ever happened before with any other case AFAIK, let alone that it was recorded on the victim's own phone.
 
What is your theory behind this man hitch hiking? I haven't understood LE's reasoning in this yet, he just committed horrid acts, why risk hitch hiking is what I wonder. And if he was hitch hiking, that means he had no vehicle or else LE would have found an abandoned vehicle. MOO

A car stopping to pick someone up might not be actual hitching if the driver was picking up a friend as pre-planned or as arranged by phone... but it would sure look like hitching to an observer. I do think I remember LE asking, also, if someone saw someone getting into a car.... or being picked up... pretty sure they didn't specify that it had to be hitching as in picking up a stranger or getting into a stranger's car. On another line, why would anyone expect to hear screams (except MAYBE at the last few moments and those would be very hard to hear in that location, imo.) All BG had to do, in his calm, quiet voice, would be to say, at the very beginning... "I hear even one sound out of either of you and I'll kill your friend right there and then I'll kill the big mouth, too."
Some words to that effect would have the severity to make a lot of people afraid to hardly breath at that point; never mind scream or try to run.
 
And someone would remember a wet hitchhiker likely covered in blood....


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

He probably changed into clean clothing he had in a duffel bag left nearby the CS earlier... or carried clean clothing stuffed under a jacket so it looked bulky and awkward and made people wonder what was stuffed under that jacket. My question is; where did he dump the clothes he wore while killing them? You know those are long gone.
Just :moo:
 
Is there a way to get back to thread 1 or 2? Or are those gone??

I'm specifically looking for the afternoon of 2/14 just after the bodies were discovered but before any info on BG was released.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please. Tell us what you are looking for, specifically and someone will locate it. Some of the people here are genius at finding things. Not me, but others.
 
I think the twist is that they have the audio of the actual abduction and murders. Can't think what else it could be. I don't think that has ever happened before with any other case AFAIK, let alone that it was recorded on the victim's own phone.

Oh it's definitely occurred before, just likely not with this department. I think they call them "snuff" tapes/recordings.
 
In reviewing a number of maps that show 1) where the girls were dropped off, (there are some great maps on earlier threads on Websleuths) 2) where they were likely forced to go with the suspect and 3) where they ended up found, what strikes me is that the location of all three events, appear to be at the point in the park that is farthest away from the center of the town of Delphi. The entrance to the Moton trail at state road 25 (not the highway 25, but the state road) is basically Main St. of Delphi. Which though small, is a real little town. That state road 25 entrance was probably not all that remote, and could be reached by walking from the center of Delphi.

The entrance the girls were dropped off at off 300 N (no longer an entrance) was actually on a bit of private property, where the owners had allowed an easement of sorts. The road to get there is farmland, corn, and lots of space. (I did a virtual tour--Delphi is a really pretty place.) But that spot, like much of Delphi, is somewhat remote. It would be difficult to get to on foot. And I couldn't find any mass transportation options in Delphi.

The location the killer picked is as far as you can get from town on those trails. And the spot he abducted those girls is the end of the park. Everything after is private land.

If I were going to abduct someone in that town, and I was looking for a random victim as opposed to someone I knew and had targeted--that's where I'd do it.

Because Delphi is not a city where you are likely to find random victims very easily. People aren't just walking around. Most people travel by car, including kids who are being picked up from school or events.

A park is really the only place you are going to find someone in an isolated spot, on foot.

And the killer got far, far away from the center of town.

That spot on the bridge would have been tricky for the girls to have escaped from, if no one saw anything. To get to where they were supposed to be picked up, they would have had to cross back over the bridge. The spot where the bridge is, the creek is too deep to cross back over there. And though there are a few houses near that little public road N675, it's the middle of the day, no one home maybe. Most of the privately owned homes are nearer to 300 N. So, unless an irate property owner sees you and threatens to shoot you if you don't get off their property, you could be in that spot for a while and no one would see or hear you.

He appears to have been corralling the girls to just such a spot.

I wonder though, how he knew that there wouldn't be an irate home-owner with a gun, patrolling his own land. Or if the killer just got lucky.

I do think, though, that it's almost certain he chose that spot to find a victim, because of it's remote nature.

Could this mean that he was actually very familiar with Delphi. Maybe he lived there. Maybe he'd even done some work on the properties adjacent to that end of the park--knew the habits of some of the land owners. Could he be hiding in plain site?

He really does seem to have performed some form of reconnaissance prior to these murders. Or he got hella lucky.



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I know we have discussed meth and meth labs a dozen or more times. However, rural Indiana is in the midst of a heroin crisis. I feel that maybe the girls stumbled across a drug deal of some kind. Or maybe BG was stood up for one and he was enraged.

MOO
 
Oh it's definitely occurred before, just likely not with this department. I think they call them "snuff" tapes/recordings.
I believe those type of tapes are made by the killers, not recorded by the victim unknown to the killer and subsequently found by LE. That's the twist - recorded by the victim.
 
I was actually mistaken, so I'm glad I didn't share incorrect info.
 
He probably changed into clean clothing he had in a duffel bag left nearby the CS earlier... or carried clean clothing stuffed under a jacket so it looked bulky and awkward and made people wonder what was stuffed under that jacket. My question is; where did he dump the clothes he wore while killing them? You know those are long gone.
Just :moo:

JMO...
Wood stove
Firepit
Bonfire
Etc
 
Waving the white flag here...

I misunderstood this forum. Badly! And that's on me.

Honestly, I deeply apologize for my posts igniting so much controversy.

I'm saying this too without any trace of snark, or irritation, or whatever.

There are really sharp minds here with an abundance of knowledge. Knowledge and effort that can and should be directed toward finding the killer of these girls.

THEY are the focus.

Not my unproven theories and posts that have derailed and bogged us down.

That collective effort can be better channeled in more productive directions.

So, I'm laying it down. Letting it go.

Let's take the high road now together. Let's move on.

The girls deserve that much...
 
I know we have discussed meth and meth labs a dozen or more times. However, rural Indiana is in the midst of a heroin crisis. I feel that maybe the girls stumbled across a drug deal of some kind. Or maybe BG was stood up for one and he was enraged.

MOO

There may be an epidemic in parts of Indiana. But Indiana is a really big state. I researched, Delphi the town is not experiencing this crisis in any major way, and the what small labs have been located from time to time are in residences. Though there are homes near to the Moton Trail, that part of town is actually a little more upscale, houses selling for more than in other locations, and no reported incidence of major drug activity there.

Dephi has a crime rate lower than the rest of Indiana and much lower than the national average. Which is probably why it was a perfect spot for a crime like this. No one was expecting this type of murder--it's unheard of in that town. This type of crime in Delphi just doesn't happen--which may also be why the killer chose this town. It's easier to surprise and subdue an unwary victim.
 
Has this statement by ISP Sgt. Riley been clarified? We know their parents were aware where they were going, what they planned to do, how they were getting there and a plan for being picked up. What was he hinting at?

Sgt. Kim Riley said parents should keep a close eye on their children. "I think people need to be cautious and careful," Riley said. "Parents should make sure they know where their children are and what their children are doing, and if nothing else, know what's going on in their lives. That's the most important thing I can say at this point in time."

http://fox59.com/2017/02/15/police-...-in-case-of-missing-carroll-county-teenagers/
 
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