IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #65

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A K9 and handler are exiting the wooded area as Rescue Divers prepare to enter @ 1:07

Why the K9, or K9s, did not locate the bodies is something I've been unable to reconcile. However, the WTHR video was posted to youtube on Feb 15 and not the 14th so there is that consideration. The reporter states: "For the second afternoon, divers ...."

[video=youtube;u_WNHtqEUBo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_WNHtqEUBo[/video]
IIRC by the time the dogs had arrived on the 14th from a neighbouring state, the volunteers had already begun searching and had quickly found the girls by following a set of footprints.
 
So you all think neither were there to meet anyone and it was a chance encounter it seems. What exactly motivated the abduction and murders if the meeting was random? What was BG there for if it wasn't for the purpose of killing or assault? I don't follow your theories as to why BG was there at all?

Please see previous posts and perhaps you will understand my take on things.

All of course IMHO

Many Thanks
KR
Reacher
 
[SUB]f[/SUB]

But that didn't happen. There would be no need to work on isolating the DNA if that was the case.

We can't say "that didn't happen" and we can't say it did. We don't know if they have the killer's DNA or not so we can't use that as a yardstick to make assumption like what lab work would stop being performed. (How can we know what lab work there would be "no need to work on?") Imo, they will continue performing lab work on all specimens until it can yield no possible, further results... and this has nothing to do with whether Libby fought back or not.
JMO :moo:
 
So you all think neither were there to meet anyone and it was a chance encounter it seems. What exactly motivated the abduction and murders if the meeting was random? What was BG there for if it wasn't for the purpose of killing or assault? I don't follow your theories as to why BG was there at all?
IMO: I don't believe he was there to "meet" anyone. He was there to kill some female. Abby & Libby were wrong place, wrong time. His purpose was to rape & kill someone. It all came down to timing & they happened to be alone on that bridge at that time IMO.
 
So you all think neither were there to meet anyone and it was a chance encounter it seems. What exactly motivated the abduction and murders if the meeting was random? What was BG there for if it wasn't for the purpose of killing or assault? I don't follow your theories as to why BG was there at all?

This is just MOO from reading FBI profiles of stranger abduction/murders, but I would point back to something I mentioned in an earlier post. This type of offender engages in lots of different kinds of deviant behaviors to satisfy urges. Peeping, indecent exposure, etc. The fantasy of committing assault and stalking play a role. He gets a thrill when he knows he is going to "go out hunting." The pleasure is magnified because he is prepared: today he brought a gun and zip ties (just presenting a possible scenario here). It's a location he's scouted before and he knows victims are vulnerable there. He doesn't know if he will find a likely victim today but the idea that he's going to stalk, intimidate, perhaps expose himself, is thrilling. He's prepared to kill if he wants to and he has all the power. Creepy to think that this is going on in the minds of evil people around us but I think it happens.
 
There would be no need to work on isolating dna if there were no dna . Recently posted MSM source earlier today is saying there is DNA.
Theres a good chance the girls had DNA on them from family members. In which case DNA would have to be matched to them. Otherwise a defense attorney would say theres DNA from an unknown source.
 
This is just MOO from reading FBI profiles of stranger abduction/murders, but I would point back to something I mentioned in an earlier post. This type of offender engages in lots of different kinds of deviant behaviors to satisfy urges. Peeping, indecent exposure, etc. The fantasy of committing assault and stalking play a role. He gets a thrill when he knows he is going to "go out hunting." The pleasure is magnified because he is prepared: today he brought a gun and zip ties (just presenting a possible scenario here). It's a location he's scouted before and he knows victims are vulnerable there. He doesn't know if he will find a likely victim today but the idea that he's going to stalk, intimidate, perhaps expose himself, is thrilling. He's prepared to kill if he wants to and he has all the power. Creepy to think that this is going on in the minds of evil people around us but I think it happens.
Exactly right! Life is all about timing - something no human can control.
 
Please see previous posts and perhaps you will understand my take on things.

All of course IMHO

Many Thanks
KR
Reacher
Yes. The mobile pot meth lab in a rucksack, similar to the guys from Lafayette arrested at an abandoned hotel who were doing the same recently. The empty property at the end of the bridge would be an ideal place to do something like that I agree.
So they killed because they were seen?
 
Just in review, and I am pretty new to this case so sorry if this info in incredibly redundant:

To put the timeline in geographic context. Delphi In. has a population of approximately 3000 people. Their town center boasts three to four restaurants, one of which is McDonalds. The nearest "city" is Lafayette, with a population of approx. 25,000. These are small towns, even Lafayette. Lots of farmland around. Lots of open space. Delphi has a very, very low crime rate.



Feb 13, 2017/1:00 PM -- Abigail and Liberty are dropped off at an entrance to the Delphi Historic Trails that is near to the Monon Bridge. (The entrance I found that was closest to the bridge is now closed off--but it was on W. 300 N Rd (the same road that RL's home is officially on-though his property extends to Deer Creek where the girls were found.) I don't know for a fact that this is where the girls were dropped off, but it makes the most sense.

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If they were dropped off at this entrance their walk along the trail would be at the tail end of the 1.5 mile hike. So maybe they had about 1/2 a mile to walk to the bridge? Depending on how quickly they walked, whether they took pictures or not, they could have easily gotten to the Monon Bridge by 1:20, maybe 1:30. Unless they were goofing off and taking pictures the whole way.


2:07 PM there are those last snapchat photos of Abigail and an empty bridge. Then no one really knows what transpired, although at some point Liberty captures the voice and picture of the man crossing the bridge. We've never been told at what time either the man's picture or his voice were captured---have we?



February 14, 12ish PM the bodies of the girls are discovered 1/2 mile from the bridge, on the opposite side of the creek from where the last pictures were taken by Liberty, 50 feet up the embankment. (According to a source, not LE, a set of footprints led searchers to the bodies.)

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens


I know all of the above has been reviewed before, but when I look at where the murders took place, in relation to the center of Delphi, I have to wonder if it is coincidence that the killer chose a spot about as far out of the center of town as you can get--and still run into people on foot. In a very small town, he chose one of the most remote corners of that town, And those girls had not walked very far that day. That's a very short stretch of trail they were on--3/4 of a mile at best. How did the killer find this spot? It's well known to locals, but would a stranger to the town, just happening through, find that spot easily?

And how does he know that property owners residing on the other side of Monon Bridge won't come after him as he trespasses on their land? Indiana is a STAND YOUR GROUND state. Someone could have seen this guy trespassing and just shot him. Why wasn't the killer more concerned about property owners noticing his presence?

It really feels like this guy has some kind of familiarity with this location. Add to this that he was there on a Monday, a week-day, in the afternoon.

I also noticed that Abigail was wearing a light hoodie, that she had open. Yet the man is bundled up in at least two layers of hoodie and jacket. It wasn't a balmy day, but warm for that time of year. Was he hiding, and therefore had to be more bundled up, because he wasn't walking alll that much on the trail, but was instead lurking? Maybe he did more lurking than walking that day.

I don't know. And an isolated location on a hiking trail is not an unusual place for an attack to occur in broad daylight. But everything this guy did was so risky. Unless he'd really scoped it out on other occasions. Or maybe scoped it out earlier that day?

What would bring a stranger to this small town in the first place?

Don't have any answers. In the case of the Amherst Trail rapist and killer, he lived very nearby the trail. And LE looked past him initially because he was well respected in the community and didn't resemble the composite sketch. It wan't until years later, when his DNA matched that found on his victims, that he was caught.

Could this guy be hiding in plain site? Could the sketch be wrong?

Could this guy be from Lafayette? Lafayette has a very high crime rate, and the Google maps suggested route is State Road 25 (27 min). State Road 25 is where one of the entrances to the Monon trail is.

This is a stretch, but maybe the killer is this close by. Maybe another town nearby.
 

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"Not Blue Eyes" - this eyewitness who told police/sketch artist, his eyes were not blue! My thought on that is that I hike all the time & after passing people on the trail, if you asked me the color of of someone's eyes there is no way I could tell you. You don't stare that hard at someone hiking to notice eye color. Even so, people wear colored contacts all the time. And, there are people like me whose vision isn't that great. IMO, for this witness to notice eye color, she would have had to had a conversation face-to-face with the perp.
thoughts?
 
IMO: I don't believe he was there to "meet" anyone. He was there to kill some female. Abby & Libby were wrong place, wrong time. His purpose was to rape & kill someone. It all came down to timing & they happened to be alone on that bridge at that time IMO.
Agreed, we cannot give a reason besides he was a murder that's why he was there, at this time. I'm personally on the side of the girls just there in his scope for now.
 
Agreed, we cannot give a reason besides he was a murder that's why he was there, at this time. I'm personally on the side of the girls just there in his scope for now.

I dont think he murdered anyone before.
 
"Not Blue Eyes" - this eyewitness who told police/sketch artist, his eyes were not blue! My thought on that is that I hike all the time & after passing people on the trail, if you asked me the color of of someone's eyes there is no way I could tell you. You don't stare that hard at someone hiking to notice eye color. Even so, people wear colored contacts all the time. And, there are people like me whose vision isn't that great. IMO, for this witness to notice eye color, she would have had to had a conversation face-to-face with the perp.
thoughts?

I've been hung up on the "not blue" stipulation since the new sketch came out. It makes no sense to me either. It just seems like they would have said "eyes MAY be brown, hazel, or green" instead of definitively "not blue." This is why as soon as I heard this I assumed they were also working off the perp's DNA (Parabon snapshot), perhaps in combo with eyewitnesses. This was discussed in a previous thread too. But then other things about the case make you think they don't have DNA, or don't have it yet. So many questions.
 
How do you come to this conclusion? I'm interested in your thoughts as I am thinking completely opposite. I think he lured Abby online and this was a rendezvous.

Surely the FBI would have found computer evidence if this were the case?
 
Further to what "location" might say about this killer--while Delphi has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation, Lafayette In. has one of the highest.

And Lafayette is about 27 minutes away. Suggested route is either State Road 25 (one of the entrances to Monon trail is on this route) or Highway 25, which also passes the Monon Trail.
 
Surely the FBI would have found computer evidence if this were the case?

JMO...
If there was a planned rendezvous, there may be evidence on one or both of the girls' phones. BG could have used a fake account on a burner phone he paid for with cash and was very careful about which networks he was using to contact her/them, and only ever used it while stalking her/them. Virtually untraceable.
 
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February 14, 12ish PM
the bodies of the girls are discovered 1/2 mile from the bridge, on the opposite side of the creek from where the last pictures were taken by Liberty, 50 feet up the embankment. (According to a source, not LE, a set of footprints led searchers to the bodies.)

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-bodies-found-as-missing-carroll-county-teens

<snip>

Don't have any answers. In the case of the Amherst Trail rapist and killer, he lived very nearby the trail. And LE looked past him initially because he was well respected in the community and didn't resemble the composite sketch. It wan't until years later, when his DNA matched that found on his victims, that he was caught.

Could this guy be hiding in plain site? Could the sketch be wrong?

The distances of where the bodies were found are roughly 3/8 of a mile from the NW end of the bridge, and 700-800 feet from the SE end, give or take. I've indicated in other posts that the distance from the SE end to the CS was around 550 - 600 feet, but a member corrected me on that, recently.

The Bike Path Rapist case is an interesting one, and illustrates how these perps can be hiding in plain sight. The guy started in the 70's, stopped for many years, then started again in the (I think it was) late-90's. If our perp is in his 40's or even 50's, I'd venture to guess he's done other killings, perhaps even many years ago, say 80's or 90's.

JMO

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