IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #66

[Shiressleuth]

Holeman is not misleading anyone. He was asked a question and answered it. It's the interpretation of his answer that is all bent out of shape. We can all read an interview and take what we wish from it. Look how RL's interviews have been analysed to pieces until it is meaningless. This is going the same way and is pointless as everyone clearly has their own opinions and views.

 

[DarkSkink]

Holeman is not misleading anyone. He was asked a question and answered it. It's the interpretation of his answer that is all bent out of shape. We can all read an interview and take what we wish from it. Look how RL's interviews have been analysed to pieces until it is meaningless. This is going the same way and is pointless as everyone clearly has their own opinions and views.

How so though?

He is either being honest about the route he thinks they took from the bridge to where the bodies were found, or he is being misleading.

When hoping for a new tip with the fresh release of the sketch, I would hope he's not that daft as to limit people's memories if LE actually suspects they went somewhere in a car. Anyone listening to that interview would now think there was never a car involved, and likely not report a sighting that involves a car.

There was recently a poster here who had to question their own memories and if it was worthwhile to report a possible sighting. It was a great example of what witnesses go through before making, or not making a call to the tip line.

The same self examination would apply to anyone who thinks they saw them in a car. "Well, one of the lead investigators said yes it would have been difficult terrain and cold to cross through the creek when they went from the bridge to the final location. I guess it wasn't them I saw in that car that day."

 

[ezrah]

Holeman is not misleading anyone. He was asked a question and answered it. It's the interpretation of his answer that is all bent out of shape. We can all read an interview and take what we wish from it. Look how RL's interviews have been analysed to pieces until it is meaningless. This is going the same way and is pointless as everyone clearly has their own opinions and views.

Yes and if LE is withholding COD bc only the perp will know those details isn't it just common sense that LE is also withholding how the bodies got to the place of discovery? The perp will be the only one to know the route and mode of transport of the girls to that spot on RLs property. LE IMHO is not going to disclose that info to the general public and they don't have to. All MOO

 

[DarkSkink]

Yes and if LE is withholding COD bc only the perp will know those details isn't it just common sense that LE is also withholding how the bodies got to the place of discovery? The perp will be the only one to know the route and mode of transport of the girls to that spot on RLs property. LE IMHO is not going to disclose that info to the general public and they don't have to. All MOO

What is LE's answer to questions about the cause of death?

They say they can't answer that because it may compromise the investigation. They don't offer up a false scenario.

The same would apply to a question about the route they took.

 

[Shiressleuth]

How so though?

He is either being honest about the route he thinks they took from the bridge to where the bodies were found, or he is being misleading.

When hoping for a new tip with the fresh release of the sketch, I would hope he's not that daft as to limit people's memories if LE actually suspects they went somewhere in a car. Anyone listening to that interview would now think there was never a car involved, and likely not report a sighting that involves a car.

There was recently a poster here who had to question their own memories and if it was worthwhile to report a possible sighting. It was a great example of what witnesses go through before making, or not making a call to the tip line.

The same self examination would apply to anyone who thinks they saw them in a car. "Well, one of the lead investigators said yes it would have been difficult terrain and cold to cross through the creek when they went from the bridge to the final location. I guess it wasn't them I saw in that car that day."

I've already said what I think. Regarding a vehicle, LE have also said nothing either way, so there is no reason for witnesss to discount it. If witnesses think they see him, be it in a car, truck, lorry, up a ladder, on a bike, horse or by shank's pony, they just need to call it in imo.

 

[ezrah]

It has been mentioned many times how the perp sketch looks very generic. What characteristics of the sketch stand out to you guys? If you happened to know this person what would the characteristics be that would make you go WTH I need to tip LE? We've been told to focus on facial features so not the hat please

 

[DarkSkink]

I've already said what I think. Regarding a vehicle, LE have also said nothing either way, so there is no reason for witnesss to discount it. If witnesses think they see him, be it in a car, truck, lorry, up a ladder, on a bike, horse or by shank's pony, they just need to call it in imo.

He did though.

He said they had to go through difficult brush, and it was probably cold for whomever crossed the creek.

Were there a car involved, he would have mentioned the ease or difficulty of driving the car.

If he wanted to keep the route quiet, he'd have said so. If there is a tip with a sighting in a car that leads to a prosecution, you can bet that interview will be played for him when he is testifying on the stand. His credibility and the reliability of the investigation will come under fire.

 

[DarkSkink]

It has been mentioned many times how the perp sketch looks very generic. What characteristics of the sketch stand out to you guys? If you happened to know this person what would the characteristics be that would make you go WTH I need to tip LE? We've been told to focus on facial features so not the hat please

Thanks for the change in direction.

I see a definite focus on the nose, both tip and top, and the drooping, far apart eyes.

The jawline is also soft like someone carrying a few extra pounds.

I can only think of one person in my lifetime that comes close to that picture, and like many, since I am so far away I discount the possibility that I know him.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

That's my thought as well. His stumbling seems more like he was caught off guard by the way the question was asked. I suspect the interviewer asked it in that way to get at the details of where they walked.

"Was it difficult" isn't really what the interviewer wants to know. It's more like "Did they go this route?" without asking it directly. A direct question like that typically gets a non-response.

^this^

 

[kc1023]

I'm re-thinking the cyber aspect of this crime due to a recent case in Plainfield, Indiana. This guy was never in Indiana so he's not BG but I wonder if LE were considering a Delphi connection in the beginning. They just caught him on Aug. 7.

I'm posting these snips and links to show it can take a long time to track down cyber crimes.

http://fox59.com/2017/08/06/attorney-to-announce-federal-charges-in-plainfield-cyber-threats-case/
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...d-in-brian-kil-plainfield-school-threats-case
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/crime/what-took-the-brian-kil-arrest-so-long

Brian Kil was the name used by a guy who turned Plainfield (and at least 2 other towns) upsidedown in an attempt to become the worst cyber terrorist who ever lived. He started by hacking teen girls' cloud accounts.

Using online accounts, Hernandez (real name) approached minors and said he had lewd or sexually explicit videos and photos, court documents said. He then asked for more and threatened to expose them unless they sent additional photos and videos.

From Dec. 17, 2015, through Jan. 11, 2016, Hernandez opened 10 Facebook accounts in order to make threats and then disabled them, investigators said. From Jan. 11, 2016, through Jan. 27, 2016, he opened and closed 14 Facebook accounts. Hernandez opened an additional two accounts on Feb. 16, 2017.

In the federal indictment, Hernandez said he wanted to ratchet up the drama and compared the threats to a soap opera. In a series of Facebook posts, he admitted he never knew the Plainfield teen, referring to her as “unlucky” for getting hacked.

“Truth is, I lied about knowing her,” Hernandez wrote on Facebook. “I don’t know [Victim 1]. I’ve never met her. She’s just a girl who was very unlucky and had her cloud storage hacked. From there I dragged her through the mud by spreading lies and misinformation to reach my goals that really had no relation with her whatsoever. I basically used her as an access point to attack an entire town.”

Hernandez said he made it all up. His demand for an “apology” from the victim and her mother was a complete fabrication.

Wow! I didn't know they finally caught this guy. This was really crazy when it was going on.

 

[DarkSkink]

Wow! I didn't know they finally caught this guy. This was really crazy when it was going on.

The first article there lists a few good examples of the investigating techniques LE has at their disposal (i.e. NIT). It also shows what they have to go through to prove who was actually using the computer or phone attached to the IP address, once they finally get an IP address. They actually had to set up surveillance outside the house to prove he was in there at the times the computer was used for the malicious deeds.

It's a good read.

Similar cyber crimes may also be associated with this case, but for me, it's hard to reconcile a sophisticated cyber criminal with the doofus that was secretly recorded and left the cell phone behind.

If there were any communication between he and the victims shortly before a meet up, because there were only one or two cell towers in the area, the phone he used would be simple to trace. That phone would have had to be purchased with cash at a location with hopefully no security cameras, and registered online using fake names, payment information and again a disguised IP.

The murder of two girls may also get more sympathetic help from the IT companies involved. LE managed to get information about the multiple Facebook accounts that perp had. That likely came from Facebook themselves without a challenge to any subpoenas or warrants, and I would have to think they would cooperate in a case regarding the murder of two teens on a hike.

 

[Krwiley60]

But if he was looking down,how could you state definitely not a particular color?

Obviously he wasn't looking down when she determined his eyes were not blue. I believe they were too dark to see what color exactly.


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[gregjrichards]

It has been mentioned many times how the perp sketch looks very generic. What characteristics of the sketch stand out to you guys? If you happened to know this person what would the characteristics be that would make you go WTH I need to tip LE? We've been told to focus on facial features so not the hat please

He looks very generic to me like a human being and it's a big problem I wish he had a visible tattoo or something. I would say he would blend in well in a neighbourhood outside Delphi who don't know that evil lives amongst them.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

It has been mentioned many times how the perp sketch looks very generic. What characteristics of the sketch stand out to you guys? If you happened to know this person what would the characteristics be that would make you go WTH I need to tip LE? We've been told to focus on facial features so not the hat please

I made a request of the ATA - American Trucking Association - to distribute this new sketch along with the contact information and pertinent links. Curious to see how that will shake out.

 

[Krwiley60]

No, I did not ask when the FBI is notified of a muder - why was the DIRECTOR of the FBI notified? He is the head of the FBI with lots of things on his plate. I doubt the head of the FBI is notified every time there is a murder in the United States.

It is because of the amount of agents that were detailed to this case. He was briefed twice. After all, he is their boss


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[Krwiley60]

So... your question is, when is the FBI director notified of murders?


ETA: looking into it this is interesting

• What is the Critical Incident Response Group?
  The FBI’s Critical Incident Response Group (CIRG) provides rapid assistance to incidents in a crisis. Through CIRG, expert assistance is available in cases involving the abduction or mysterious disappearance of children, crisis management, hostage negotiation, criminal investigative analysis, and special weapons and tactics. CIRG also assists in the assessment, selection, and training of FBI undercover employees.
  
  
  ETA2: I can imagine anytime CIRG is called the Director is made aware of it. How in
  
  
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[DarkSkink]

He looks very generic to me like a human being and it's a big problem I wish he had a visible tattoo or something. I would say he would blend in well in a neighbourhood outside Delphi who don't know that evil lives amongst them.

As seen in the picture from the video, he's covered from head to toe, so a notable mark or tattoo would be difficult to see. If they had that detail, they likely would have released that with the picture.

LE keeps stressing that there is "someone who knows" and that they need to come forward. The sketch may also be geared towards that person to demonstrate how much detail they do have.

It makes one wonder if witnesses saw him with another person, if there is a fourth person on any of the recordings, or if LE has another sighting somewhere other than just on the path. (i.e. visiting with someone, or driving with someone)

 

[Krwiley60]

Lol


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[FrostedGlass]

Wow! I didn't know they finally caught this guy. This was really crazy when it was going on.

It just goes to show that some things take longer than we think they should. LE must be feeling really good to have this guy behind bars.

What also caught my attention was what Chief Krieger said in the press conference I posted. I suppose they have all been in touch but it seemed a little strange that he brought up Delphi right in the middle of talking about the Brian Kil case:

Chief Krieger:
26mm "I just want to tell the people of Delphi that their case, too, will be solved with these gentlemen, their agencies behind them. You can see that they just don't ever give up."

 

[gregjrichards]

I made a request of the ATA - American Trucking Association - to distribute this new sketch along with the contact information and pertinent links. Curious to see how that will shake out.

That would be so great if they agree. Thank you so much for asking them.