IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

[2Hope4]

In a huge fibro fog, and can't think... I don't know if those are listed here or not, and can't even think to see if they've been found, or what happened! Someone posted it on my FB

 

[2Hope4]

:blushing: I should have read before I posted.. sorry gang! The RI girls were found, but what about those other two?

 

[BIC]

:blushing: I should have read before I posted.. sorry gang! The RI girls were found, but what about those other two?

The other 2 are from October 2016. I can't find a thread for them.


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[Jim_M]

People, has anyone heard about two girls, were walking to a park, and both missing? One is named Liberty the other Kayleigh. https://pl8pic.com/Kayleigh_Liberty


Another case with two teens missing... http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loc...irls-missing-after-walking-to-park-in-detroit

They were also found safe:

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/way...dale-teens-were-heading-to-detroit-police-say

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Germany- Can you find a way to better explain to us what you are thinking?

Perhaps I will send an email to our mod but it would be a little bit of work to explain it in a logical way (I have to mention too many details in understandable order) and much work to provide the links. Patience, please!

 

[Trino]

Sometimes, despite not being close to a situation, posting on WS is therapeutic, especially in a case like this where everyone expected a quick resolution. It doesn't really matter if we go 'round and 'round. It just helps.

I think LE is as frustrated as common citizens. With a photo, it should have been easy, yet nothing. Still going through tips again and again, hoping and waiting the killer doesn't repeat.

You've got to be careful out there, watch your children, although every moment isn't possible. Prepare them for the worst and hope it never happens.

 

[jamerton]

Sometimes, despite not being close to a situation, posting on WS is therapeutic, especially in a case like this where everyone expected a quick resolution. It doesn't really matter if we go 'round and 'round. It just helps.

I think LE is as frustrated as common citizens. With a photo, it should have been easy, yet nothing. Still going through tips again and again, hoping and waiting the killer doesn't repeat.

You've got to be careful out there, watch your children, although every moment isn't possible. Prepare them for the worst and hope it never happens.

I think it must be extremely difficult to report someone you know or even suspect committed a horrible crime. It seems obvious to report a monster but if you REALLY put yourself in their shoes I can come up with many reasons not to report.
-fear for lives of self/children in retaliation
-what if you are wrong.
-nowhere to go.
-if established in a community then fear of embarrassment /loss of reputation
-financial cost of legal issues
-damage to extended family or connected businesses or organizations /church
-thoughts of relocation and the difficulty and expense involved.
-fear of retaliation from bg or someone else connected to him or even community retaliation
-loss of job due to media attention
-media attention

I always thought I would turn in my own mother in a second if I knew she had committed a murder. I am really trying to see the other side. Why isn't someone coming forward? Certainly someone knows this guy. I think someone obviously is too scared. What can we do to encourage them? Is it crazy for these people to come forward? Think about families of notorious killers. What does everyone think?

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[Deleted member 189081]

I think it must be extremely difficult to report someone you know or even suspect committed a horrible crime. It seems obvious to report a monster but if you REALLY put yourself in their shoes I can come up with many reasons not to report.
-fear for lives of self/children in retaliation
-what if you are wrong.
-nowhere to go.
-if established in a community then fear of embarrassment /loss of reputation
-financial cost of legal issues
-damage to extended family or connected businesses or organizations /church
-thoughts of relocation and the difficulty and expense involved.
-fear of retaliation from bg or someone else connected to him or even community retaliation
-loss of job due to media attention
-media attention

I always thought I would turn in my own mother in a second if I knew she had committed a murder. I am really trying to see the other side. Why isn't someone coming forward? Certainly someone knows this guy. I think someone obviously is too scared. What can we do to encourage them? Is it crazy for these people to come forward? Think about families of notorious killers. What does everyone think?

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IMHO I think every opportunity has been given to someone who has doubts about a partner or friend, neighbour to report whilst staying anonymous. However I do agree that there are many reasons why someone may not come forward as you have listed above. I would also add lack of self confidence and perhaps dependent on the perpetrator also perhaps in self denial.

Encouragement from others is to recognise it will be difficult for many reasons but I suspect anyone who knows if having a lot of sleepless nights and suffering already and will probably feel a damn sight better once they have it off their chest.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth

KR
Reacher

 

[deedee21]

Really? We have no idea about the circumstances surrounding this. It could be a simple case of miscommunication. Jumping to the conclusion that the parents are irresponsible is, quite frankly, irresponsible IMO.

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I dont believe thats the case. You have to have communication for a misunderstanding to occur.
The kid probably said she had permission.
Kids lie.

 

[Sleuthin' n TX]

IMHO I think every opportunity has been given to someone who has doubts about a partner or friend, neighbour to report whilst staying anonymous. However I do agree that there are many reasons why someone may not come forward as you have listed above. I would also add lack of self confidence and perhaps dependent on the perpetrator also perhaps in self denial.

Encouragement from others is to recognise it will be difficult for many reasons but I suspect anyone who knows if having a lot of sleepless nights and suffering already and will probably feel a damn sight better once they have it off their chest.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth

KR
Reacher

Funny, I can think of 230,000 reasons someone would come forward! I was searching the FBI's most wanted list and not one has such a high reward! Maybe the sketch of BG should be a consideration to the FBI as 3 of the top 10 have been captured......IMOO

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I was away from wifi and have spent some time lurking to catch up on this and some other WS threads since I've been back. So sad to see BG hasn't been apprehended in the meantime!

On a slightly related note, a little late to the discussion, no one thought "Stingray" was a Corvette???

Justice for Abigail and Liberty can't come soon enough!

 

[jamerton]

IMHO I think every opportunity has been given to someone who has doubts about a partner or friend, neighbour to report whilst staying anonymous. However I do agree that there are many reasons why someone may not come forward as you have listed above. I would also add lack of self confidence and perhaps dependent on the perpetrator also perhaps in self denial.

Encouragement from others is to recognise it will be difficult for many reasons but I suspect anyone who knows if having a lot of sleepless nights and suffering already and will probably feel a damn sight better once they have it off their chest.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth

KR
Reacher

Thank you

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[terpstra1]

I think it must be extremely difficult to report someone you know or even suspect committed a horrible crime. It seems obvious to report a monster but if you REALLY put yourself in their shoes I can come up with many reasons not to report.
-fear for lives of self/children in retaliation
-what if you are wrong.
-nowhere to go.
-if established in a community then fear of embarrassment /loss of reputation
-financial cost of legal issues
-damage to extended family or connected businesses or organizations /church
-thoughts of relocation and the difficulty and expense involved.
-fear of retaliation from bg or someone else connected to him or even community retaliation
-loss of job due to media attention
-media attention

I always thought I would turn in my own mother in a second if I knew she had committed a murder. I am really trying to see the other side. Why isn't someone coming forward? Certainly someone knows this guy. I think someone obviously is too scared. What can we do to encourage them? Is it crazy for these people to come forward? Think about families of notorious killers. What does everyone think?

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I've been watching the docudrama about the uni bomber. His brother was in denial. He finally went to an attorney to keep his name out of the media. Someone in the fb I released his name the day they made an arrest. He was hounded by swarms of media that day. I can't imagine. IMO I think seeing that would keep people from coming forward .

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[LaneGirl]

I am unpopular in my opinion but I still believe (because of that stupid hat in the "witness" sketch)that police are going off of what some see in the video (LE etc) and not a real live witness. Meaning I'm not sure this is an accurate rendering.

I've polled my family members and each time I ask each of them to describe some person we just saw (gas station, waitress etc) they all start with the exception of 1 with the hair out of 7. Long dark hair, balding man etc., the family member that didn't start with the hair described it as his 3rd description.

I'm interested in you folks here....recall the last stranger you saw and describe them and see what you come up with. Something seems off and the fact that no-one has turned BG in makes me feels this all the more.

 

[mrtnira]

I am unpopular in my opinion but I still believe (because of that stupid hat in the "witness" sketch)that police are going off of what some see in the video (LE etc) and not a real live witness. Meaning I'm not sure this is an accurate rendering.

I've polled my family members and each time I ask each of them to describe some person we just saw (gas station, waitress etc) they all start with the exception of 1 with the hair out of 7. Long dark hair, balding man etc., the family member that didn't start with the hair described it as his 3rd description.

I'm interested in you folks here....recall the last stranger you saw and describe them and see what you come up with. Something seems off and the fact that no-one has turned BG in makes me feels this all the more.

Most people can't fully describe something they observed, even when it was experientially impressive. Many witness accounts are flawed. I learned that 40 percent of eye witness accounts are incorrect by degrees of error, and this study shows the error rates are over 70 percent in degrees of error -- some more than others. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

 

[Barbie619]

I am unpopular in my opinion but I still believe (because of that stupid hat in the "witness" sketch)that police are going off of what some see in the video (LE etc) and not a real live witness. Meaning I'm not sure this is an accurate rendering.

I've polled my family members and each time I ask each of them to describe some person we just saw (gas station, waitress etc) they all start with the exception of 1 with the hair out of 7. Long dark hair, balding man etc., the family member that didn't start with the hair described it as his 3rd description.

I'm interested in you folks here....recall the last stranger you saw and describe them and see what you come up with. Something seems off and the fact that no-one has turned BG in makes me feels this all the more.

How do you suppose the sketch should be done hair wise when BG is wearing a hat in the original image that Libby got a shot of??? What if he's completely balded and or full haired and a wrong representation is put out there?? LE doesn't know and neither do we.... It sounds like you will have to accept that this is what it is....

 

[LaneGirl]

Most people can't describe something they observed, even when it was experientially impressive. Many witness accounts are flawed. I learned that 40 percent of eye witness accounts are incorrect by degrees of error, and this study shows the error rates are over 70 percent in degrees of error -- some more than others. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

No doubt about that, and I agree it was just hair was overwhelmingly the first thing my family members described. Now granted I asked them between 15 and 30 minutes of seeing someone, not one didn't describe hair.

So my question is you think the "witnesses" described different hair patterns so LE thought to put the Golf hat on?

ETA - respectfully I'm asking as print can seem snarky.

 

[jillybean51]

No doubt about that, and I agree it was just hair was overwhelmingly the first thing my family members described. Now granted I asked them between 15 and 30 minutes of seeing someone, not one didn't describe hair.

So my question is you think the "witnesses" described different hair patterns so LE thought to put the Golf hat on?

ETA - respectfully I'm asking as print can seem snarky.

Maybe they should have done a few variations of the sketch..... bald, full hair etc


Always my opinion only [emoji230]

 

[BIC]

No doubt about that, and I agree it was just hair was overwhelmingly the first thing my family members described. Now granted I asked them between 15 and 30 minutes of seeing someone, not one didn't describe hair.

So my question is you think the "witnesses" described different hair patterns so LE thought to put the Golf hat on?

ETA - respectfully I'm asking as print can seem snarky.

I think they put that hat on him because he was wearing one that closely resembled it, either by witness recollection, the video of him by Libby, or both. IMO


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[kat913]

I think it must be extremely difficult to report someone you know or even suspect committed a horrible crime. It seems obvious to report a monster but if you REALLY put yourself in their shoes I can come up with many reasons not to report.
-fear for lives of self/children in retaliation
-what if you are wrong.
-nowhere to go.
-if established in a community then fear of embarrassment /loss of reputation
-financial cost of legal issues
-damage to extended family or connected businesses or organizations /church
-thoughts of relocation and the difficulty and expense involved.
-fear of retaliation from bg or someone else connected to him or even community retaliation
-loss of job due to media attention
-media attention

I always thought I would turn in my own mother in a second if I knew she had committed a murder. I am really trying to see the other side. Why isn't someone coming forward? Certainly someone knows this guy. I think someone obviously is too scared. What can we do to encourage them? Is it crazy for these people to come forward? Think about families of notorious killers. What does everyone think?

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Perhaps they cannot believe it themselves....they see a completely different side of him (Ted Bundy as an example) and not until they have to really think hard (or are presented with the notion) will they even consider the possibility.

My opinion only of course!