IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

[skibaboo]

Probably nothing, but while looking for a spot where the suspect could have waited and watched the trail, I noticed near the parking/drop off area, there are a couple small structures or objects. Anyone know what these are?

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Maybe a local will know, hard to tell but I'd guess some type of building for storing farm equipment maybe?

 

[Cryptic]

As for the drugs angle, it is extremely unlikely anyone would suggest the bridge as a rendezvous point for buying dope. People buy it at people's doorsteps, inside houses, at the mall, through car windows, school hallways, they don't make special dates to buy it at remote locations. And there would be a digital footprint of this plan.

To me all signs point to the girls being random victims

I agree with you, though I would reduce the dope probability to "unlikely" down from "extremely unlikely".

Though the area is not needed for a lower level drug sale, it would make an attractive meeting place. This raises the possibility that one of the victims had intended to meet some one there to make an apology, make a promise, provide information, regarding low level drugs, or even agree to "hold" a small amount of drugs for another party.

While a meeting would normally leave a digital trail, I think some criminals, like Al Queda, have learned the hard way about LE electronic tracking abilities and have gone back to olde fashioned word of mouth messaging.

In the end, I think a random perpetrator is more likely, but the arranged meeting possibility though less likely, is still plausible. What bothers me is that a meeting could imply a group. And of course, criminals don't tell anybody about their activities- except their new girl friend, and the "cool" guy at the bar. Yet, there still has not been an arrest.

 

[kkdj]

I wonder if BG was visiting the cemetary that day? Was he on his way out when he spotted two girls get out of a car and go off on their own? Is that possible?
Whats the lay of the land?

Never thought about this but it sure makes a lot of sense. Perhaps he had death on his mind.

 

[Hoosier952]

Now that I rethink my theory while considering fingerprints, I am leaning away from BG being a long haul trucker. Most CDL licenses require fingerprinting AFAIK. Those records are submitted into the FBI AIFIS system similar to DNA in CODIS. I would have to do more research to find out specifically, but I have no doubt that the FBI used AIFIS early on or else there are no usable prints anywhere at the crime scene.


Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System

There's a long list of people who could potentially have fingerprints on file too.Military, concealed carry license holders, some government employees, etc. Some/many (suspected) criminals get fingerprinted as well. I think they are supposed to have their prints removed if found not-guilty though. Of course, I don't know if all of the old fingerprint cards were uploaded to the FBI database either.

 

[gregjrichards]

Never thought about this but it sure makes a lot of sense. Perhaps he had death on his mind.

I'm not sure if a cold bloodied killer like him would bother visiting the grave of anyone though.

 

[Rossymom]

Like many of us probably do, I have a suspect in mind. He is military. What if he was home in February and going thru his pre-deployment process? Or he is away for schooling, training, or involved in the Yellow Ribbon's Program for suicide or ptsd? If he is currently deployed, perhaps LE is waiting for him to return to question him?
I hope this isn't the case, because that would mean he is currently carrying a weapon around fellow soldiers and is a head-case.

 

[Yemelyan]

This case in particular though, it begs the question, "Why was he there?".

Given the length of time that has gone by, it's likely the perp is not local. Why would a non-local be hiking in that area? He doesn't appear to be an avid hiker. He's not necessarily dressed like an avid hiker. He's not necessarily built like an avid hiker. Some have suggested hunting, but without a bow or rifle? Some have suggested harvesting, but without a bag or backpack?

Is it likely that this person would drive to Delphi to go for a nice hike on a Monday afternoon and just up and kill (or more) two girls on a whim?

I'm tending to think he's not a local but is nevertheless familiar with the area for some reason.. family, friends, or work brings him to the area though perhaps infrequently. I'm wondering if he has some sort of hobby or interest that gives him an out to go off alone looking for victims. If it's not hiking/hunting/fishing, maybe he's a railroad buff who would have a natural, explainable interest in the bridge itself? It's anecdotal but I have acquaintances who have a lifelong interest in railroads/trains and they travel long distances to see various historical railways. Or I could see them going out of their way on a work-related trip to explore some unique railroad feature or another. If you google the high bridge there is at least one train-watching site that comes up that explains to hobbyists where they can get vantage points of different train crossings in Delphi and the surrounds.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I'm tending to think he's not a local but is nevertheless familiar with the area for some reason.. family, friends, or work brings him to the area though perhaps infrequently. I'm wondering if he has some sort of hobby or interest that gives him an out to go off alone looking for victims. If it's not hiking/hunting/fishing, maybe he's a railroad buff who would have a natural, explainable interest in the bridge itself? It's anecdotal but I have acquaintances who have a lifelong interest in railroads/trains and they travel long distances to see various historical railways. Or I could see them going out of their way on a work-related trip to explore some unique railroad feature or another. If you google the high bridge there is at least one train-watching site that comes up that explains to hobbyists where they can get vantage points of different train crossings in Delphi and the surrounds.

Although I understand your reasoning BG does not look like any sort of hobbyist with an interest in rail roads IMPO, If he was he would not be looking down and would have his hands out of his pockets ready to take a photo, make notes.

It is only a personal opinion and I don't say that you are wrong but I can't see it.

I am still personally of the mind the girls saw something (an illegal act or clandestine act by others) which they weren't meant to see or witness and ultimately led to their demise. IMPO

KR
Reacher

 

[Yemelyan]

Although I understand your reasoning BG does not look like any sort of hobbyist with an interest in rail roads IMPO, If he was he would not be looking down and would have his hands out of his pockets ready to take a photo, make notes.

It is only a personal opinion and I don't say that you are wrong but I can't see it.

I am still personally of the mind the girls saw something (an illegal act or clandestine act by others) which they weren't meant to see or witness and ultimately led to their demise. IMPO

KR
Reacher

I get what you're saying. I guess I could have been more clear about my thoughts when I wrote that he uses his "hobby" as an out. Again, it's anecdotal so may be a useless train of thought. In my life, I knew someone who seemed fairly normal in the beginning. Certain red flags about his behavior appeared as time went on. Though married with children, he was always sort of a loner but suddenly developed an obsession with fishing. He bought a boat, would spend hours alone fishing, etc. Later we found that the fishing was an excuse to be away from his family, to be "alone," to get up to the things that he was really interested in. Does that make some sort of sense as to where I was going with the railroad idea? I was thinking BG might often make excuses if he lives with someone for why he's gone on his "outings." If anyone were to say to him, "Hey, weren't you at the Monon High Bridge the last time we went to Delphi?" He might say, "Sure, I went but only to check out the old trestle." He might use his so-called hobby to normalize his behavior, which in fact includes stalking, rape, or more. This is all speculation, of course! Just another way of thinking about why a person who wanted to kill two girls would be in that place at that particular point in time.

 

[terpstra1]

This case in particular though, it begs the question, "Why was he there?".

Given the length of time that has gone by, it's likely the perp is not local. Why would a non-local be hiking in that area? He doesn't appear to be an avid hiker. He's not necessarily dressed like an avid hiker. He's not necessarily built like an avid hiker. Some have suggested hunting, but without a bow or rifle? Some have suggested harvesting, but without a bag or backpack?

Is it likely that this person would drive to Delphi to go for a nice hike on a Monday afternoon and just up and kill (or more) two girls on a whim?

I think he was on the prowl, hunting for a victim.

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[terpstra1]

Very true.

The investigator in the interview where he describes the route they took, also chooses his words carefully about the location the phone was found. "In the general area." he says, so there is a possibility the perp handled the phone.

The last interview I saw LE stated the phone was found "with the girls" so this is interesting to me. If you have a link please post. In the mean time I'll search for it. Tia.

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[Shiressleuth]

I agree with you, though I would reduce the dope probability to "unlikely" down from "extremely unlikely".

Though the area is not needed for a lower level drug sale, it would make an attractive meeting place. This raises the possibility that one of the victims had intended to meet some one there to make an apology, make a promise, provide information, regarding low level drugs, or even agree to "hold" a small amount of drugs for another party.

While a meeting would normally leave a digital trail, I think some criminals, like Al Queda, have learned the hard way about LE electronic tracking abilities and have gone back to olde fashioned word of mouth messaging.

In the end, I think a random perpetrator is more likely, but the arranged meeting possibility though less likely, is still plausible. What bothers me is that a meeting could imply a group. And of course, criminals don't tell anybody about their activities- except their new girl friend, and the "cool" guy at the bar. Yet, there still has not been an arrest.

What about the cemetery for drug deals? Easy to park at the back there unseen, no cctv, no passers by, can see approaching vehicles and people easily, remote and secluded. Would be ideal IMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The last interview I saw LE stated the phone was found "with the girls" so this is interesting to me. If you have a link please post. In the mean time I'll search for it. Tia.

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It is the last one by Holeman in three parts in the media thread transcribed by Spellbound. He did say "in the general area" which I took to mean general area of the CS and could even include the water IMO.

 

[margarita25]

Probably nothing, but while looking for a spot where the suspect could have waited and watched the trail, I noticed near the parking/drop off area, there are a couple small structures or objects. Anyone know what these are?

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Good eye!! And how the heck are we (you) just seeing this now?!? This could be huge, imo. Surely LE would've seen these.

 

[modsiw]

I wonder if BG was visiting the cemetary that day? Was he on his way out when he spotted two girls get out of a car and go off on their own? Is that possible?
Whats the lay of the land?

That's an interesting thought I've never considered. It could potentially explain why he was in the area and familiar with the trail. I wonder if LE tried to cross-reference with deceased family members.

 

[Yemelyan]

Given what little we do know about this crime - my thoughts on this could change when or if we learn more about cause of death, etc - I'm reminded of BTK for some reason. A normal-ish man, married with kids, active in church, and yet a monster. It's thought that BTK used the advantages of his jobs, which were somewhat solitary in nature, to stalk people. He was active in Boy Scouts but would plan his murders around times when he could absent himself from the meetings/activities in order to carry them out (going back to my previous post - using a hobby to explain or normalize his absences to his family). Another possible similarity is that though BTK's crimes were sexually motivated, he didn't physically rape his victims so it was more of a challenge to find DNA evidence of his involvement (though they were eventually able to recover DNA - I know one of the major pieces of DNA evidence was not recovered from a victim's body at all but from a pipe behind her). This could be the case with the Delphi murders as well, we just don't know. BTK had a vast sense of superiority and invincibility to LE - even as he taunted them with letters and poems. Perhaps BG shares this sense of invincibility and this is why he left the phone (if he knew about it). I just see a lot of possible parallels between the two that may explain some of the odd things about this case, such as why tips haven't narrowed his identity down (he's well-respected in the community and has plausible excuses for his behaviors that don't make his family/friends suspicious) or why there's no slam-dunk DNA evidence that we know of (he's a sexually-motivated offender but his fetishes take the form of behaviors other than rape). Just some thoughts.

 

[Falling Down]

Given what little we do know about this crime - my thoughts on this could change when or if we learn more about cause of death, etc - I'm reminded of BTK for some reason. A normal-ish man, married with kids, active in church, and yet a monster. It's thought that BTK used the advantages of his jobs, which were somewhat solitary in nature, to stalk people. He was active in Boy Scouts but would plan his murders around times when he could absent himself from the meetings/activities in order to carry them out (going back to my previous post - using a hobby to explain or normalize his absences to his family). Another possible similarity is that though BTK's crimes were sexually motivated, he didn't physically rape his victims so it was more of a challenge to find DNA evidence of his involvement (though they were eventually able to recover DNA - I know one of the major pieces of DNA evidence was not recovered from a victim's body at all but from a pipe behind her). This could be the case with the Delphi murders as well, we just don't know. BTK had a vast sense of superiority and invincibility to LE - even as he taunted them with letters and poems. Perhaps BG shares this sense of invincibility and this is why he left the phone (if he knew about it). I just see a lot of possible parallels between the two that may explain some of the odd things about this case, such as why tips haven't narrowed his identity down (he's well-respected in the community and has plausible excuses for his behaviors that don't make his family/friends suspicious) or why there's no slam-dunk DNA evidence that we know of (he's a sexually-motivated offender but his fetishes take the form of behaviors other than rape). Just some thoughts.

The Bike Path Rapist went under the radar for years, in fact LE tried decoys and whatnot, and he continued to slip under the radar.

 

[Falling Down]

Probably nothing, but while looking for a spot where the suspect could have waited and watched the trail, I noticed near the parking/drop off area, there are a couple small structures or objects. Anyone know what these are?

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Here is the building closest to the intersection of the trails/trail head. It's private property:

 

[margarita25]

Here is the building closest to the intersection of the trails/trail head. It's private property:

Very interesting, imo. This is the first time these are coming up in the discussions here, am I correct?

 

[Falling Down]

Very interesting, imo. This is the first time these are coming up in the discussions here, am I correct?

I believe so.

The video I pulled it from is one of the first I used for reference in the case. Guy walked from the next town over, and retraced the RoW which leads to the MHB. Nice video, it was posted last year.

JMO