IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #7

[mrsu]

.....

 

[Megster024]

I'm sorry, I missed that today. So the police originally kind of lied about where the stills came from - and why would one of the girls take that video of this guy approaching them?

They didn't lie, they always said it came from a video-and it did. It just happened to be a video from Libby's phone. The officer said 'she had the presence of mind' to take the video. I took this as this man creeped her out so she started videoing his approach.


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[LietKynes]

Oh I totally do not either. I just meant I'm sure some people would. There's some real idiots out there.

And the people who have mentioned wondering how one person overtook them both, I just don't think one would have left the other. For a multitude of reasons, IMO.


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RSBM

If they were threatened with a gun...or even a knife. These were young teens.

It seems heroic to me, that possibly one girl wouldn't leave the other one even if there was an opening ?
You could say... well, one girl could've run to get help. But we don't know that she would've succeeded.

And if she managed to flag someone down and the other friend ended up dead ?
Think of having to live with that.

And we don't know if anyone else helped murder Abigail and Liberty. So they were maybe outnumbered , as soon as the first perp was able to get them to a secluded location ?
MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Is that on a Federal or state level? And what crimes qualify for dna collection and entering into a database? TIA!!!

I remembered seeing something about felonies and DNA in Indiana. Apparently Indiana collects DNA from convicted felons. However, a new bill yet to be passed changes that to anyone arrested for a felony. So I guess each state has their own laws about DNA.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/21/house-a...to-be-taken-from-those-arrested-for-felonies/

And it seems that under federal law DNA can be collected:

(d) Qualifying Federal offensesThe offenses that shall be treated for purposes of this section as qualifying Federal offenses are the following offenses, as determined by the Attorney General:
(1) Any felony.
(2) Any offense under chapter 109A of title 18.
(3) Any crime of violence (as that term is defined in section 16 of title 18).
(4) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit any of the offenses in paragraphs (1) through (3).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/14135a

I haven't checked other nearby states but if he was ever arrested in Indiana but not convicted or if his case is pending then under current law he wouldn't be in the database.

 

[Gardenista]

Here is a screenshot from a video taken on my iPhone 6s. It's pretty bad, and I wasn't moving the phone quickly either.

Thanks for this. How far are you from those people?

 

[Rachel1]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-maps-amp-timelines&p=13169442#post13169442

Here's a link for those that haven't saw it yet. This is maps and other useful factual information that some seem to be missing.

 

[heaterann]

I do not believe Abby was the focal point of that picture either.... When I look at it I dont see any vehicles but what I do see is that behind Abby there appears to be a person that his blurred out. If you focus in on the pic you can see where it appears they removed someone from the picture. That is a really odd angle to be taking a pic of a person and she never even bothered to look up. There is someone behind here, right behind her and for whatever reason LE blurred it out. This of course is just IMO

 

[MistyM]

Now I know why the mom jeans bother me. The BTK killer wore them. Typical white man that fits into society. An older man doesn't simply start killing two girls out of the blue.

i know what you mean! i get a total rader vibe off this situation. i wonder if this dude has a teenage son who knew the girls only through social media, like the kid wasn't a classmate or anything, maybe a nearby town. just throwing that around to help with the 'set up' / online theory.

ps. this thread would be so awesome in a subforum, then you would have your picture people in one thread, your psychological evaluations in another. this thread just wizzes by so fast!!!

 

[galaxygal]

Though there hasn't been a DNA matching someone in the system, I wonder if it's been matched to DNA of any cold cases in the area...

 

[tokyorose]

My thoughts exactly why wouldn't the perp gotten rid of the cell phone ?

What if he threw it in the creek and LE fished it out? Remember they sent in divers and the killer may be unaware that apple now produces waterproof iPhones.

 

[Jethro4WS]

The picture of the girl on the bridge was taken with a cell phone, and the stills depicting the suspect were taken from a surveillance camera.

The girls didn't take the photos of the perp that have been circulated.

Yes Liberty took the video that the stills came from. Law enforcement stated that today in the press conference.

 

[ladymoffat]

RSBM

If they were threatened with a gun...or even a knife. These were young teens.

It seems heroic to me, that possibly one girl wouldn't leave the other one even if there was an opening ?
You could say... well, one girl could've run to get help. But we don't know that she would've succeeded.

And if she managed to flag someone down and the other friend ended up dead ?
Think of having to live with that.

And we don't know if anyone else helped murder Abigail and Liberty. So they were maybe outnumbered , as soon as the first perp was able to get them to a secluded location ?
MOO

I always end up thinking about Richard Speck, how he managed to murder all those women. Not one of them fought him, and the one who got away only did so because she hid and he lost count.

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[Blythe]

I remembered seeing something about felonies and DNA in Indiana. Apparently Indiana collects DNA from convicted felons. However, a new bill yet to be passed changes that to anyone arrested for a felony. So I guess each state has their own laws about DNA.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/21/house-a...to-be-taken-from-those-arrested-for-felonies/

And it seems that under federal law DNA can be collected:



https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/14135a

I haven't checked other nearby states but if he was ever arrested in Indiana but not convicted or if his case is pending then under current law he wouldn't be in the database.

Does anyone know in what year the first states began collecting this data?

 

[Bob Saccamano]

Yes, the Emerson quote is a favorite. And I think your point about the picture and the voice being potentially confusing is well-taken, and I agree that there is little audio that doesn't include the voices of the girls, which means there is audio of the crime. This is chilling.

Do you hear two audios after the background was removed? I heard "get" in the one I listened to on the official site after the presser (much clearer than the one at the presser that was so garbled), and then another on the official site later today. Did they alter it again?

I've thought a lot about this case based on what we know, what's not being said and how tight this investigation and release of info is, and now that my belief that the video stills of the suspect came from Libby's phone is confirmed, how much the video/audio tells the story.

I don't think this was a social media facilitated encounter. I think Libby was too smart to be baited on social media, her grandfather said he had talked to her about safety, he seemed to know how to check her social media/who she may have been in contact with when they were concerned about her, so he's no dummy about this sort of thing, and she obviously knew what to do, even under stress, because she got the suspect on camera and audio, apparently, as something was starting to happen. I may be wrong, but I don't think social media is center stage here.

I believe there is only one perp, that he is a skilled hunter, that he is very familiar with that geography, and had scoped out and planned how to do this sort of crime in that environment. I think it was not an accident that he was there on a school holiday where potential victims would be present. And I think he caught sight of the girls and not only were they alone, they were perhaps observed to be not paying attention to their surrounding, caught up in their activities, perhaps not always close to one another, and moving farther away from other people and toward more isolated terrain.

I really think this is too bold a crime, with two victims to manage, and where a phone is involved (I would think that he saw Libby snapping pics or texting because I think he was stalking them) for it to simply be random chance, or a spontaneous attempt by an inexperienced predator who saw these girls and decided to grab them. (However, maybe he didn't realize she had a phone because I would think he would have searched for that right away.)

I don't think he's just a drifter, but perhaps he comes and goes and knows that area from having lived there, or he is simply a resident hiding in plain sight. In either case, I think he is attracted to that location because it offers victims and terrain that makes his preferred crime relatively easy. I say this because of the ease he seems to have had in moving the girls to his preferred location, completing this crime on someone's private property, and in what seems to be pretty short order.

As far as his clothing and what appears to be layers, he could have been packing rope, zip ties, some sort of incapacitating device or chemical, a weapon such as a knife or a gun, and any number of things he uses in his crime. I do think he was dressed both not out of the norm, and in a way that disguised his features and any items he would use in his crime.

I also think he's not the brightest bulb at the end of the day, because if a 14 year old victim can see you coming and posing a threat and keep it together enough to get you on video and audio, you have not done your homework well enough to ensure not getting caught. I think these types of individuals can be smart as far as their predator instincts lending them to cunning behaviors and strategies, but they are so lacking in complex emotions and genuine inspiration or expanded ideas, they always have a blind spot. They have a dullness to them. As a friend of mine said, "Evil is creative, but unintelligent".

FWIW. I could be entirely wrong about all of this.

I heard an additional syllable with a "g" sound. "...g down the hill" Not sure if it is "go down the hill, get down the hill, or (we're goin)g down the hill"

I keep going back to LE calling the search early, which I don't necessarily fault and the statement about knowing what is going on in your kids' lives. I felt they may have had reason to believe that they were meeting someone and that it may have been arranged via SM or just that the sister overheard them talking in a manner that implied they were meeting someone. Perhaps this is why they felt they were with someone their age that they intended to meet and not necessarily missing or in danger at first.

I think it is one guy, but mainly because 2 is so hard to fathom. I also think he had to plan this. We don't know how long he was with them at the actual crime scene, but this was carried out in a relatively short window of time while other people were in the area.

How and why he chose the place he took them is going to be important because he walked them a considerable distance and I just don't think he did so aimlessly. I've felt he walked them upstream, around a bend to a point where he felt they were no longer visible from the bridge.

I'm heading to a meeting, I'll catch up when I get back.

 

[MistyM]

Though there hasn't been a DNA matching someone in the system, I wonder if it's been matched to DNA of any cold cases in the area...

oooh maybe that's why he's on the fbi's most wanted!

 

[JeannaT]

They didn't lie, they always said it came from a video-and it did. It just happened to be a video from Libby's phone. The officer said 'she had the presence of mind' to take the video. I took this as this man creeped her out so she started videoing his approach.


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Thank you. I missed the press conference because I can't get it to load on my computer, but was able to read articles from it.

This case reminds me more and more and more of Carlie Brucia. If she didn't just randomly take this video, but rather took it because this man creeped her out and she wanted to record evidence, that breaks my heart to pieces. GET OUT OF THERE, GIRLS!! I suspect that she began taking this video for other purposes, maybe accidentally, and then later continued to video because a crime was in progress.

I really can't imagine standing there video taping a guy approaching because you are afraid of him. That just doesn't seem likely.

 

[galaxygal]

I always end up thinking about Richard Speck, how he managed to murder all those women. Not one of them fought him, and the one who got away only did so because she hid and he lost count.

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I thought about Edmund Kemper, I mentioned earlier. He locked himself out of the vehicle, and his victim, locked in the car with his gun, let him back in. I always wondered how that could have happened, but maybe when you're that frightened of someone, you do what they ask, even when you could have turned the tables.

 

[Steph03]

I'd say thats speculation. We have no proof to prove that Abby's sweatshirt is seen in the photo based on the information given to us.

It isn't speculation - you can see it?

 

[rotary_dial]

So another bridge just so happens to look exactly the same with the same landmarks?

What is the source of the pic? Where did it come from?


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[galaxygal]

I thought the uncropped photo shows a tree where that "shirt sleeve" is.