IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #73

[DarkSkink]

Good idea

Lets reverse the points.

DN resembles the police sketch but looks like a younger person than the police sketch.
No DNA match to the scene
He doesn't have and wouldn't have worn a jacket like BG is wearing (style is too farmer, too old)

Opportunty:
Getting to Delphi is1:20 minutes from the Camby area where DN was living homeless
He had no transportation, car or motorcycle.
He has no reported connections to Delphi or reason to go there.
He was at an ultrasound with his wife at 2:45 on 2/13, the time the crime started more than an hour away,

Motive:
He has no reason to murder two teens, he never killed before, his crimes don't indicate an escalation to murder. He gets angry, threatens, commits assault and sexually motivated publec exposure crimes -- but he had never combined the two. He had threatened to kill people and people were afraid of him, but again this was within a predicatble range, not expected to escalate. We dont know how they were killed -- so if had means is not knowable.

Means:
As a felon he could not have weapons legally.
He did not have gun at the time, he sold his shotgun to comply with the law.
He did have a hatchet and used it mainly for camping, although he did also use it to threaten people but these threats were within a predictable range of outburst and not necessarily expected to escalate to murder.


Can't think of any more points -- I wonder if he never hitchhikes - haven't seen that question asked.

Fair points, but not all 100% accepted as fact though, as the ultrasound debate rages on.

What better alibi could you have than ian a medical office with a scheduled appointment? Should prosecutors try and make a predominantly circumstantial case against him one day, he'll be kicking himself for not taking pictures or doing something noteworthy that day. Her inability to remember, especially in interviews, could become very damaging.

Something like Google Timeline might be a useful tool in this sort of thing, rather than an oppresive big brother conspiracy to be worried a out. Again, it would only prove that the phone went to the ultrasound, but reasonable doubt would come into play.

If there was something concrete to clear him, then the means and motive parts could be spot on.

 

[mtnlites]

My guess is, IF he did any kind of hitchhiking to Delphi, it was in the form of hitching a ride with someone he knows.

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Hitchhiking, hopping a train, getting a ride, etc. There are ways he could've gotten to Delphi. Still, my question remains WHY? I am still looking for that connection to Delphi. It is not really a place that people just go to for the heck of it, IMO. You kind of have to know about it. One of the main reasons I am on the fence (mostly leaning towards it's NOT DN) is because we still haven't seen a connection between DN and Delphi. If someone were to come forward and say, "Yeah, his old high school buddy lives there" or "DN used to take the family up there to hike" or something of that nature then I'd be more flexible. There are literally people in town who don't know where the park is. (I had to remind my cousin, who still lives there, that we used to play there when we were kids. She's lived there for 40 years and had forgotten about it-and she's not the only one.)

 

[Boxer]

My guess is, IF he did any kind of hitchhiking to Delphi, it was in the form of hitching a ride with someone he knows.

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Yes - I think that too. And there was a huge FBI raid on an RSO home in Layayette of a RSO that worked in Lebanon - close enough town to be a contact for DN when he was a construction worker in Zionsville.

 

[kkdj]

IMO there is a reason DN was in Delphi. We don't know what it is yet or how he got there, but he was there.

 

[Boxer]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/daniel-nations-colorado-hatchet-man-delphi-indiana-murders-photos/


This was a FB post then carried by MSM, does anyone have detail about where it was taken? He looks like he is in an outboard boat.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Wondering if they are going to bail him out?

Remember, even if they have the money to post bond, they have to find a bondsman willing to take the risk. Any bondsman is going to know he's a huge flight risk. I doubt there are any who would do it.

 

[sumzero]

Good idea

Lets reverse the points.

DN resembles the police sketch but looks like a younger person than the police sketch.
No DNA match to the scene
He doesn't have and wouldn't have worn a jacket like BG is wearing (style is too farmer, too old)

Opportunty:
Getting to Delphi is1:20 minutes from the Camby area where DN was living homeless
He had no transportation, car or motorcycle.
He has no reported connections to Delphi or reason to go there.
He was at an ultrasound with his wife at 2:45 on 2/13, the time the crime started more than an hour away,

Motive:
He has no reason to murder two teens, he never killed before, his crimes don't indicate an escalation to murder. He gets angry, threatens, commits assault and sexually motivated publec exposure crimes -- but he had never combined the two. He had threatened to kill people and people were afraid of him, but again this was within a predicatble range, not expected to escalate. We dont know how they were killed -- so if had means is not knowable.

Means:
As a felon he could not have weapons legally.
He did not have gun at the time, he sold his shotgun to comply with the law.
He did have a hatchet and used it mainly for camping, although he did also use it to threaten people but these threats were within a predictable range of outburst and not necessarily expected to escalate to murder.


Can't think of any more points -- I wonder if he never hitchhikes - haven't seen that question asked.

Good post. More substantive than much of what we read here.

Hard to imagine DN covering his tracks if he was anywhere near Delphi. He’s not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. LE would’ve turned up something, having by now turned his life upside down. It’s also a good bet the people who provided the description for the sketch artist would’ve recognized DN’s picture, if it was him. He’s got a peculiar face, one you’d probably remember. So, they probably didn’t ID him.

 

[crhedBngr]

I understand completely the skepticism of DN being the girls' killer. If there was something specifically tying him to Delphi (or the close surrounding area), I think that would nail it for me. Was DN familiar with the Monon Bridge area? Can anyone place him there during this time frame? If said witness(s) exist, are they afraid to go to LE with this info? Could DN's tie to Delphi be RL?

I'm saying this based on past killers I've read about - J.W. Gacy trolling for victims close to his house, Jacob Wetterling's killer living in the area, Jeffrey Dahmer bringing victims back to his home - you get my drift.

We had two killings in my Wisconsin small town when I was 19 years old. The perp was a machinist whose work rotated between three states, including Wisconsin (obviously). He was therefore familiar with the area. He met his victims in one of the local bars, so he was at the location and was familiar with the area when both killings occurred.

This is the crux of the matter, IMVHO.

Thoughts?

 

[mtnlites]

I understand completely the skepticism of DN being the girls' killer. If there was something specifically tying him to Delphi (or the close surrounding area), I think that would nail it for me. Was DN familiar with the Monon Bridge area? Can anyone place him there during this time frame? If said witness(s) exist, are they afraid to go to LE with this info? Could DN's tie to Delphi be RL?

I'm saying this based on past killers I've read about - J.W. Gacy trolling for victims close to his house, Jacob Wetterling's killer living in the area, Jeffrey Dahmer bringing victims back to his home - you get my drift.

We had two killings in my Wisconsin small town when I was 19 years old. The perp was a machinist whose work rotated between three states, including Wisconsin (obviously). He was therefore familiar with the area. He met his victims in one of the local bars, so he was at the location and was familiar with the area when both killings occurred.

This is the crux of the matter, IMVHO.

Thoughts?

I tend to agree. Something concrete placing him in Delphi, even in the past, would help me. I've been pretty vocal on the fact that I don't think the sketch or the picture looks just like him. (Resembles him, but not anymore so than other people I've looked at for this case.) Being a RSO may or may not play a part, considering that we don't know COD or if the girls were sexually assaulted. The hatchet may or may not be of significance since we don't have a COD. Placing him there, however, would give me something concrete to goon, rather than wild speculation.

 

[minazoe]

again this thread is going pure snark.

all the veiled references to people who are 99% etc..dissing "what we usually get here , etc".

if DN is being done wrong by public opinion then maybe y'all should go to Colorado and help him make his bail.

message...veiled snark, is still snark. and I usually don't comment on it , I've been here a long time..and this thread is not

the place ...

peace out.

 

[her]

It's refreshing too see two points of view, thanks for the great posts.
Not everyone has to agree.

 

[deedee21]

Yes, I would absolutely try to recall as many details from the day as possible. Do we know that KN has not done the same? I haven't followed all of her statements.

Research supports that we have a hard time remembering all details from a "routine" day. The ultrasound may or may not have been a routine day. The more time to elapse between when the routine day occurred and when you are informed that your husband may be a POI in a murder, the harder it will be to recall specific details.

It is also possible as some have alluded, she's intentionally leaving out details to either protect her husband OR protect herself (documented DV history).

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Keep in mind KN had a conversation with LE. Perhaps she did tell them she did not see DN on the 13th. Its not somethng she would be willing to share on a video chat.

 

[Momma2cam]

again this thread is going pure snark.

all the veiled references to people who are 99% etc..dissing "what we usually get here , etc".

if DN is being done wrong by public opinion then maybe y'all should go to Colorado and help him make his bail.

message...veiled snark, is still snark. and I usually don't comment on it , I've been here a long time..and this thread is not

the place ...

peace out.

I have yet to see anyone defend the behaviors and crimes that lead to his current arrest. I can't imagine anyone here would want to post his bail, but I've been wrong before.

Sitting on the fence regarding his involvement in Libby and Abby's murders does not equate to wanting to bail him out of jail on his current charges. The domestic violence, threats with a hatchet, sexual offenses, etc are troubling enough and don't get my sympathy. But, that doesn't mean he's automatically guilty of murder of A&L.

MOO.

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[tokyorose]

I have yet to see anyone defend the behaviors and crimes that lead to his current arrest. I can't imagine anyone here would want to post his bail, but I've been wrong before.

Sitting on the fence regarding his involvement in Libby and Abby's murders does not equate to wanting to bail him out of jail on his current charges. The domestic violence, threats with a hatchet, sexual offenses, etc are troubling enough and don't get my sympathy. But, that doesn't mean he's automatically guilty of murder of A&L.

MOO.

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I haven't posted in a bit, but I have been reading along. Here's my current opinion... not that it's worth much. I truthfully can't come to any conclusion as to whether DN is BG or not. I really have no idea, and for me that is because there is just too much information I don't have. To my eyes, DN looks like he could resemble the BG from Libby's pic, but not the sketch. I don't think the sketch looks much like BG in Libby's photo, anyway, but MOO and a witness there that day, would obviously be a better resource then the grainy photo with a face hidden in pixelated shadows, unless there were 2 involved with this crime and the sketch is not BG. Also, I think that IN LE compared DN's DNA to the DNA they have from the scene and it did not match, but I think the dNA evidence they have is very weak and can't be conclusively linked as belonging to the killer, which puts LE in a tough spot. I thought it was interesting that DN had 2 hatchets. Why did he need 2? My feeling is this murder was fast and efficient and left very little evidence for LE, sadly.

 

[Boxer]

IMO if I was a detective I would never let go of investigating DN till I had conclusive proof of his alibi for the time.
He fits in so many ways, and has no concrete rule out, but matching factors aren't actual evidence though

If this AW/LG investigation has brought scrutiny to the living conditions of the DN/KN children its been a good thing.

 

[minazoe]

maybe DN had a major blowout with KN that infamous day in Delphi,
perhaps he decided to blow.

perhaps he got about a hundred miles away ..and had to get KN to come get him, cause really, who else would? had to call her to come get him so he could go sign in.

perhaps when they watched the coverage on the news and she knew she had just picked him up from there,

perhaps at that moment she felt a blind cold fear and a knowingness that was traumatic and put her in a perpetual state of
disassociation.

this can happen to people, denial. denial keeps the wolves at bay, maintains the status quo, keeps things un real rather than real, which is preferable.

lets say the K rumor is true...perhaps DN wanted KN to see that on TV.

yeah..he could get about 100 miles away and have a tantrum. I can see this..moo

 

[her]

One big issue for broke ppl that are homeless is gas money, yet alone a car.

 

[minazoe]

coulda hitched, coulda had a car. moo . about 1.5 hours away.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I’ve been thinking about posting this for a few days and finally decided to toss it in the ring.

JMO...

Let’s all assume for the sake of this post that DN is NOT BG and has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened to Abby and Libby.

What do all of you think the “real” BG is doing right now, provided he hasn’t been locked up somewhere on other charges and not yet connected to the Abby and Libby case?

Could he be sitting around appalled that the internet is trying to accredit “his” crime to this... well, let’s just say not the sharpest crayon in the box?

What thoughts would the real BG be having? Could he be so narcissistic and possessive about his crime that he would want to divert the attention back to himself, or at least back to the crime and away from the DN media/internet circus?

It scares me to think of what might happen if this is the case.

JMO.

 

[Jax49]

I’ve been thinking about posting this for a few days and finally decided to toss it in the ring.

JMO...

Let’s all assume for the sake of this post that DN is NOT BG and has absolutely NOTHING to do with what happened to Abby and Libby.

What do all of you think the “real” BG is doing right now, provided he hasn’t been locked up somewhere on other charges and not yet connected to he Abby and Libby case?

Could he be sitting around appalled that the internet is trying to accredit “his” crime to this... well, let’s just say not the sharpest crayon in the box?

What thoughts would the real BG be having? Could he be so narcissistic and possessive about his crime that he would want to divert the attention back to himself, or at least back to the crime and away from the DN media/internet circus?

It scares me to think of what might happen if this is the case.

JMO.

Same thoughts have been running thru my head...