IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #73

[Shiressleuth]

He really is a chameleon, isn’t he? The one mug I’ve seen where he’s clean shaven he looks like a completely different person! That may partially be due to him weighing more at the time of that mug but the facial hair vs lack of facial hair really changes his looks.


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I wish MSM could put them all in a line or square in proper date order. Or make a flip book type presentation. Definitely the longer hair covering the ears and widow's peak hairline, changes his appearance drastically IMO

 

[Steleheart]

Me too but in some states I guess it is common.

I am in Northeastern MA and I have been hearing it for a few mornings now.
But I think it's Duck Season.

Or is it Wabbit Season...

:scared:

 

[JazzTune]

That is true but you just don;t know how good of a look the witnesses had of BG. If you do a general search in google images for "sketch versus suspect" you will see how most of the sketches look more sinister than the actual perpetrator looked. Looking at all of these comparisons of other perpetrators....makes me still think DN is the one.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...i10k1j0i8i30k1j0i24k1j0i10i24k1.0.h3atsYSRwcQ

Thanks to Justice101 who posted this link at the beginning of this thread. It shows comparisons of sketches of many suspects to the actual perp.

Quite an eye-opener...

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Oh I get that and I see the front of the chin as slightly similar as can be seen in DN's other mugs. But when you look at the jawlines DN seems to have no lower Mandible back by his ears.
Everything he eats must explode in his eardrums, IMO.

But while we cannot post side by side comparisons, I try to look at articles where the both are compared.

To your greater point - comparing a hand done sketch to actual photographs - I get that. I will be more than happy to admit, if DN is charged, that the sketch was inaccurate. Many sketches end up being inaccurate, as the many cases we follow show.

But in the basic proportions, a talented sketch artist knows what questions to ask as to shape of head, (round, egg) , relationship of ears (low on the head, high, stick out),in addition to width of eyes compared to lips, etc. Then they will show the witness what they have and correct as needed.

It's only as good as the witness in the end. So all I did was show differences in basic proportions.

BG has thin lips. Similar to my own. But DN has pencil, down turned lips that look like eyebrows that were shaved and then drawn on

Anyone would remember those "protruding ears" on DN if they ever had them or knew of a child who was teased because of them. And so low on his head.

IMO these are basic but glaring differences [I]to me[/I].

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks much A52.

Also, just to reiterate - we are not allowed to post side-by-side comparisons or altered images of the sketch/ pics released by LE.


All :cow:

Hi, Steleheart!

JMO...

Regarding the ears on BG vs DN...
In the photo taken by Libby on the bridge, while BG’s facial features are very hard to define, his ears are not visible at all, at least I can’t make them out. I’m in the camp that believes he had a hat that had flaps which covered his ears or he had a hoodie pulled up. While I don’t want to reopen the “hat in sketch may not be accurate” discussion, perhaps the ears weren’t visible to the witness(es) because of a flapped hat or hoodie, or the witness(es) saw him in a cap that he tucked his ears under so they didn’t stick out. (He is a chameleon in his photos!) Possibly LE didn’t want to cover more of his head than they had to in the sketch and wanted to show as much of his face as accurately as they could, so they went with ‘ears close to head’ if they were tucked under his hat.

I could be completely off the mark with this, but I just wanted to throw out a possibility.

I’m still not 100% convinced DN is BG even though I do see more similarities between certain DN mugshots (not all of them) and the sketch than some of my fellow sleuthers do.

I keep thinking...
What prompted CO LE to contact IN LE about DN?
What information made IN LE fly out to CO?
Why did IN LE ask for a gag order to keep the similarities under lock and key?
Why haven’t IN LE ruled him out already?
How much fire, if any, is there with that smoke???

 

[MAVLEY]

Me too but in some states I guess it is common.

I am from the Midwest and we hear gun shots almost everyday. Whether people are hunting, sighting in guns, or shooting clay targets. Out in the country, it is not uncommon around here.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I am from the Midwest and we hear gun shots almost everyday. Whether people are hunting, sighting in guns, or shooting clay targets. Out in the country, it is not uncommon around here.

Slightly O/T
Unfortunately it’s not uncommon to hear gunfire in earshot of an inner city area either. I used to hear gunshots daily. And nightly. The “dividing line” between the good and bad sections was 6 blocks away.

 

[cluciano63]

Hi, Steleheart!

JMO...

Regarding the ears on BG vs DN...
In the photo taken by Libby on the bridge, while BG’s facial features are very hard to define, his ears are not visible at all, at least I can’t make them out. I’m in the camp that believes he had a hat that had flaps which covered his ears or he had a hoodie pulled up. While I don’t want to reopen the “hat in sketch may not be accurate” discussion, perhaps the ears weren’t visible to the witness(es) because of a flapped hat or hoodie, or the witness(es) saw him in a cap that he tucked his ears under so they didn’t stick out. (He is a chameleon in his photos!) Possibly LE didn’t want to cover more of his head than they had to in the sketch and wanted to show as much of his face as accurately as they could, so they went with ‘ears close to head’ if they were tucked under his hat.

I could be completely off the mark with this, but I just wanted to throw out a possibility.

I’m still not 100% convinced DN is BG even though I do see more similarities between certain DN mugshots (not all of them) and the sketch than some of my fellow sleuthers do.

I keep thinking...
What prompted CO LE to contact IN LE about DN?
What information made IN LE fly out to CO?
Why did IN LE ask for a gag order to keep the similarities under lock and key?
Why haven’t IN LE ruled him out already?
How much fire, if any, is there with that smoke???

Hadn't IN LE just been out there for a conference of some kind? If the girls were killed by gunshots, it could have been something as basic as same caliber indicated as the CO victim, and that both crimes seemed random, both done outdoors, etc...obviously we won't know anything unless there is a trial. But maybe CO would not even have contacted LE if not for the conference.

 

[Steleheart]

Hi, Steleheart!

JMO...

Regarding the ears on BG vs DN...
In the photo taken by Libby on the bridge, while BG’s facial features are very hard to define, his ears are not visible at all, at least I can’t make them out. I’m in the camp that believes he had a hat that had flaps which covered his ears or he had a hoodie pulled up. While I don’t want to reopen the “hat in sketch may not be accurate” discussion, perhaps the ears weren’t visible to the witness(es) because of a flapped hat or hoodie, or the witness(es) saw him in a cap that he tucked his ears under so they didn’t stick out. (He is a chameleon in his photos!) Possibly LE didn’t want to cover more of his head than they had to in the sketch and wanted to show as much of his face as accurately as they could, so they went with ‘ears close to head’ if they were tucked under his hat.

I could be completely off the mark with this, but I just wanted to throw out a possibility.

I’m still not 100% convinced DN is BG even though I do see more similarities between certain DN mugshots (not all of them) and the sketch than some of my fellow sleuthers do.

I keep thinking...
What prompted CO LE to contact IN LE about DN?
What information made IN LE fly out to CO?
Why did IN LE ask for a gag order to keep the similarities under lock and key?
Why haven’t IN LE ruled him out already?
How much fire, if any, is there with that smoke???

I don't know RIP. ..
And by the way your name always reminds me how long loved ones often wait before getting some closure, re Todd Kohlhepp

I had always thought that ear flaps would have shown even more-so, or in DN's case would have looked like an elephant about to fly but that is JMO :biggrin:
I do believe the hoodie was up and then suddenly down. It has happened to me when I pull a hood over my flat cap on a blustery day. You would think I would learn to pull the strings tighter.

My BBM;

I keep thinking... I often have that problem too.
What prompted CO LE to contact IN LE about DN? some element of inside info?
What information made IN LE fly out to CO? Some element of inside info?
Why did IN LE ask for a gag order to keep the similarities under lock and key? Did they actually? I missed it somewhere but I would have too. Maybe the FBI insisted on it.

Why haven’t IN LE ruled him out already? They won't until they have enough for an indictment IMO.
How much fire, if any, is there with that smoke??? As long as there is a spark and fuel there is hope we all won't freeze out here in the dark, IMO.

All :cow:

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Hadn't IN LE just been out there for a conference of some kind? If the girls were killed by gunshots, it could have been something as basic as same caliber indicated as the CO victim, and that both crimes seemed random, both done outdoors, etc...obviously we won't know anything unless there is a trial. But maybe CO would not even have contacted LE if not for the conference.

Yes, IN LE had recently been at a conference in CO.
JMO...
I agree your scenario is possible if a gun was used in both circumstances.

 

[Inthedetails]

Regarding the hat and ears....I recall LE stating that people shouldn't get hung up on the hat. (Maybe, just maybe, because the hat covers those distinctive ears.)

Just a thought.

I happen to think DN looks like BG, but, of course, I don't know for sure.

jmo

 

[Steleheart]

Regarding the hat and ears....I recall LE stating that people shouldn't get hung up on the hat. (Maybe, just maybe, because the hat covers those distinctive ears.)

Just a thought.

I happen to think DN looks like BG, but, of course, I don't know for sure.

jmo

Or a widow's peak.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I don't know RIP. ..
And by the way your name always reminds me how long loved ones often wait before getting some closure, re Todd Kohlhepp

I had always thought that ear flaps would have shown even more-so, or in DN's case would have looked like an elephant about to fly but that is JMO :biggrin:
I do believe the hoodie was up and then suddenly down. It has happened to me when I pull a hood over my flat cap on a blustery day. You would think I would learn to pull the strings tighter.

My BBM;

I keep thinking... I often have that problem too.
What prompted CO LE to contact IN LE about DN? some element of inside info?
What information made IN LE fly out to CO? Some element of inside info?
Why did IN LE ask for a gag order to keep the similarities under lock and key? Did they actually? I missed it somewhere but I would have too. Maybe the FBI insisted on it.

Why haven’t IN LE ruled him out already? They won't until they have enough for an indictment IMO.
How much fire, if any, is there with that smoke??? As long as there is a spark and fuel there is hope we all won't freeze out here in the dark, IMO.

All :cow:

Thank you for your kind words, Steleheart!

Your description of the ears under the flaps made me laugh.

Regarding the section you bolded, there HAS to be more to this than whether or not he may resemble a sketch.

As an example, paraphrasing here... A searcher in the TW case revealed he was found under limbs and leaves. It’s been linked and discussed here that’s how DN’s mother was found. It’s possible (and also has been mentioned here, but I can’t recall by whom) that’s how Libby and Abby were found too.

Yes. At the beginning IN LE requested CO LE put a gag order on the media to keep the similarities between the TW case and the Abby/Libby case quiet. I do not have a link handy though.

All the circumstantial stuff stuff just keeps making me think maybe, just maybe it could be more than just a bunch of coincidences. Maybe not. Eventually we’ll find out.

 

[Area52]

FWIW, when I saw the first photo of DN, I immediately noticed a resemble to the BG PHOTO from the bridge, taken by Libby. For some reason, the chin in the BG photo was very distinctive to me, and DN's photo was exactly what I imagined BG would look like. It amazes me that we can all look at the same photo and see different things. I guess that is what makes us all unique. To me, I also felt I was looking at a picture of someone with a "leg deformity" or limp based on the positioning of the leg in the photo from the bridge, and the fact that DN has a limp reinforces my feeling that the "ducks are lining up". I feel that LE is very close to a resolution, and pray that today is the day!

 

[Steleheart]

Hadn't IN LE just been out there for a conference of some kind? If the girls were killed by gunshots, it could have been something as basic as same caliber indicated as the CO victim, and that both crimes seemed random, both done outdoors, etc...obviously we won't know anything unless there is a trial. But maybe CO would not even have contacted LE if not for the conference.

I don't know if there was a connection between a conference and their visit but only that;

Indiana State Police investigators have arrived in Colorado to interview Daniel Nations, an Indiana man who may be connected to the Delphi murders, according to our sister station WTHR.

Nations has been arrested in Colorado on charges of felony menacing and reckless endangerment.

The Carroll County sheriff confirmed they're looking to see if an Indianapolis man, arrested in Colorado, is connected to the Delphi murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams

.

http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Po...orado-linked-to-Delphi-murders-448392673.html

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't know if there was a connection between a conference and their visit but only that;


.

http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Po...orado-linked-to-Delphi-murders-448392673.html

IN LE were in CO for a conference and mentioned the Delphi case. This happened before DN was arrested.

I don't have a link, but I do recall that tidbit. Someone will likely have a link.

jmo

 

[Area52]

IN LE were in CO for a conference and mentioned the Delphi case. This happened before DN was arrested.

I don't have a link, but I do recall that tidbit. Someone will likely have a link.

jmo

http://www.newsbug.info/monticello_...cle_e3174aac-a84f-11e7-b2a9-8beac8713755.html

Paragraph 8

 

[Voodoo71]

FWIW, when I saw the first photo of DN, I immediately noticed a resemble to the BG PHOTO from the bridge, taken by Libby. For some reason, the chin in the BG photo was very distinctive to me, and DN's photo was exactly what I imagined BG would look like. It amazes me that we can all look at the same photo and see different things. I guess that is what makes us all unique. To me, I also felt I was looking at a picture of someone with a "leg deformity" or limp based on the positioning of the leg in the photo from the bridge, and the fact that DN has a limp reinforces my feeling that the "ducks are lining up". I feel that LE is very close to a resolution, and pray that today is the day!

This is why witnesses aren't always the most reliable. Everyone does see things differently! Also, seeing a random person, you might not take notice of things, like where their ears are in relation to the bridge of their nose or even the correct color of eyes. Many factors play into what people remember. Were they under stress, feeling threatened, a witness to a crime or just out for a nice walk?

 

[kstephens98]

I'm in that camp with you. I would be interested in hearing if anyone who thought BG was RL now think BG is DN. Anyone in that camp?

Ps. I am not only going by sketch but also by video still showing height, gait (gif) , walking with head down, layers of clothes, thrift shop attire, ears not visible in stills. Then putting that with the reported anger issues, DV, RSO status, constant skipping away from court, homeless status yet with access to vehicles, there is too much that fits the profile. I accept there is much still to be done by LE (weapons, vehicles, alibi, phones etc) but it seems obvious to me they have found nothing yet with which they can rule him out. They are even putting it on his court documents. We never saw that with RL. AJMO.

I think DN COULD be BG, just as I think (yes, I still do) RL COULD be BG. With the release of the sketch, RL went WAY down on my list however. DN is certainly much higher on that list than RL at this point. All that being said, I am not sure about anything in this case. I tend to think MOD was gunshots (and have since very early on), I don't think they have the killers DNA, I don't think there was a SA, I think they all crossed the creak, I don't think the girls made a run for it before being executed, I think the phone was found in Libbys pocket and likely recorded the whole incident on audio, I think BG (whoever he is) murdered them out of rage. Those are my thoughts at this point. Unfortunately, there is just WAY too much missing info to really say anything for certain, but I hope and pray LE knows a lot more and will identify BG and bring him to justice.

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[Hatfield]

I'm in that camp with you. I would be interested in hearing if anyone who thought BG was RL now think BG is DN. Anyone in that camp?

Ps. I am not only going by sketch but also by video still showing height, gait (gif) , walking with head down, layers of clothes, thrift shop attire, ears not visible in stills. Then putting that with the reported anger issues, DV, RSO status, constant skipping away from court, homeless status yet with access to vehicles, there is too much that fits the profile. I accept there is much still to be done by LE (weapons, vehicles, alibi, phones etc) but it seems obvious to me they have found nothing yet with which they can rule him out. They are even putting it on his court documents. We never saw that with RL. AJMO.

JMO
Im terrible at guessing ages so take with grain of salt.
The strange thing to me is I think the BG photo shows someone roughly in mid 30s in age and yet the voice sounds older than the photo to me which is why I originally thought maybe more than one person was involved.

Ive kind of settled on the BG photo is just not as helpful as we had hoped. I have seen too many photos of others that resemble the BG photo. And then when we factor in that a single person can have different appearances like we see with DN changing at different times it makes it even harder to find any real usefulness of the BG photo.

There is only one or two DN photos that resemble the BG photo to me. Where he had a little more weight on him. But others also resemble the BG photo so to me it is not conclusive enough to help much.

What would have been more helpful is if a specific piece of clothing or a hat or something in the photo was proven to be owned by a certain person. And we dont have that as of yet.

My hope would be that LE reconsider allowing more of any footage they may have of the BG guy. Or more of the voice if they have it. I know they want to try to catch the perp saying something only the killer would know but if we never can catch him then it doesnt help much.

Also, and more importantly is the BG can kill again. To me it seems very important to find and arrest the BG guy as quick as possible and then try to prosecute with whatever evidence can be matched to him from the crime scene. So if there is anything more that can help the public help LE then I would hope it could be released to help find BG guy.

 

[her]

If if they have the suspect on video, must not be DN or he would have been charged immediately. Can't deny it when there is a video of you murdering someone. I still believe DN is a suspect so there must be more to the twist.

I'm sorry but he's not a Suspect.
He is a Person of Interest.