IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

[Deleted member 102539]

New video Gray Hughes made of route Kelsi drove that day!

https://youtu.be/6HtW8Dqaw0U

Never ever I will ask why the girls drove with L's sister. OMG, that's far away from home!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Ok. Even if that is all true, it still doesn't mean BG had left the scene yet, just that the phone call at 3:11 or 3:14 was not answered. True? We do not know the time that the witness saw BG leaving the area. True? I mean this with all due respect to everyone, everywhere, if it doesn't come from LE's mouth, IMHO - it doesn't count. So, before I get too invested in a 41 or 44 minute timeline (but not both) and what it could possibly mean that would help solve this case: has LE confirmed that a 3:11 or 3:14 call was made? I can not remember but I like to work with facts.

Was LE sitting there on Dr Phil when he said about the 41 minute crime window and when the 3.11 and 3.14 calls were discussed? If so, and he didn't correct the statements then I would take that as confirmation. Otherwise it would have been removed from the program before it aired. I am sure LE will have DG phone records that confirm that too.
:cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

That's not the way the justice system works here.

How does the eye witness id the perp then? In your system.

 

[franci]

Wow! Amazing Jerrod.

Thank you very much for doing this.

Chilling.

Yes the work of Gray Hughes on this case has been outstanding imo and if anyone hasn't already seen the video where he retraces Kelsi's (LG's sister) drive to the Monon High Bridge please check it out . I was truly amazed to see how out of the way it was and it certainly reconfirms the fact that this murderer was no stranger to Delphi..
Sorry late to the party as per ..I see a link for the video already posted by BoggLed on this very page.:blushing: Thanks Bogg
*Just as an after thought ..I wonder why the image of BG was so hard to capture if he was actually as we now think, so very close to Abby at the end of the bridge that part of her jacket can be seen? Is it lighting or angle? I always assumed the BG video to have been taken from a considerable distance away

 

[Jax49]

Why haven't many others, according to LE? Who knows? Maybe they don't have the perp's DNA after all.

In my opinion, they have DNA but can't be sure it is from the killer, therefore it can't exclude anyone. That's the only way to explain the problem LE faces, imho.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

In my opinion, they have DNA but can't be sure it is from the killer, therefore it can't exclude anyone. That's the only way to explain the problem LE faces, imho.

Hi Jax,
Also, in Holman’s interview he alluded to there being a lot of DNA and that LE was trying to determine whose DNA it was (family, friends, suspect). That’s also where he mentions touch/contact DNA can be present for weeks or months.
JMO, but I don’t think they have all the test results of the evidence back yet to compare it to POIs.

 

[Shiressleuth]

What's a hypothetical example of additional information that would spark a memory from last February?

The car they think the perp used? Or the mode of travel if no car? If they don't know maybe clarify the hitchhiking comment early on?
I know I wasn't the one you asked but this just occurred to me. He got there then he left . HOW.

 

[newredtabby]

Agree with you Her.

This thread has morphed into not believing the statements LE has issued.

They said a witness helped with the creation of the sketch.
Someone posted a quote from Holeman up thread.

There are a number of facts that we DO know.

No need to create scenarios around those facts that aren't true.

If you are referring to my statement of not knowing when the perp left the scene for good, I take offense to you suggesting I am creating scenarios around facts that aren't true. Stating the perp was gone and the crime was over within 40 minutes IS creating scenarios as fact that we DON'T know are true. Provide a link of LE stating the crime was over, the girls were dead, and the perp had left for good at 4:00.


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[newredtabby]

Hi FHG, IIRC on the Dr Phil show the grandfather specifically said the witness saw BG leaving the area. LE who participated didn't indicate that wasn't true.

Anyone else remember that? TIA.

moo

The exact quote from the show when MP was asked how the sketch was created was, "from an eye witness, person, who saw a person that looked like this, leaving that area, around that time, that day."


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[Bird of Paradise]

If you are referring to my statement of not knowing when the perp left the scene for good, I take offense to you suggesting I am creating scenarios around facts that aren't true. Stating the perp was gone and the crime was over within 40 minutes IS creating scenarios as fact that we DON'T know are true. Provide a link of LE stating the crime was over, the girls were dead, and the perp had left for good at 4:00.


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I was not referring to you. If I was I would have quoted your post.

You would also be taking offense to all the others who agreed with me.

My statement was merely that. A statement. Nothing more, not directed at any one person. Just the theme throughout the thread. IMO

 

[Area52]

How do we know it is not Abby or Libby who described the perpetrator via mobile phone. The only people I can think of that could have come close enough to say the eyes weren't blue are Abby or Libby. Whilst the mobile was still recording

IMHO
KR
Reacher

on the Dr. Phil show, it was stated that the witness saw BG leaving, so it couldn't have been because of the phone recording.

 

[MistyWaters]

Get all the poi mugs and let the witnesses pick one. See if they all pick the same guy. Pull that guy or the two or more they choose ( if they dont choose the same one) and set up an id parade. Hope they pick the same guy. Presumably none of these POI's have alibis or they would have already been excluded. How else are they going to reduce the number if DNA isn't doing it?

Maybe you're placing too great emphasis on the role of witnesses. It's been reported that witnesses sighted a man who LE believe committed the crime, but no eye witness observed the actual crime taking place.

The purpose of LE creating a sketch with help of the eye witnesses is NOT to locate people so that eye witnesses can yea or nay individuals who LE have labelled POIs. The eye witnesses have already done their part by helping to create the composite.

LE released the sketch in an attempt to seek out others who are aware of incriminating information regarding any individual who bears a likeness to the sketch, in order to link that person directly to the murders. It's some sort of personal and firsthand information that is required in furthering a conviction of guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. The burden of proof is far greater than someone who looks like the photo or sketch and has no solid alibi.

Whether it's the US, UK, Canada or any other country who's justice system is based on the Presumption of Innocence, that's just the way it is, thankfully so.

 

[Shiressleuth]

So if a few saw him then surely they would of recognized DN when he was arrested for all the other stuff?

We are not talking about one eye witness by the sounds of it.

I think that is why his mugshot was withheld initially in Co, possibly to contact the In witness(es) before it hit the media perhaps.

 

[newredtabby]

Well, someone called the dad to ask if he could pick up the girls. I have no idea where he was when he received the call, but possibly someone heard then. Or perhaps the person that dropped off the girls mentioned it in passing and was overheard.

The Dad knew to pick up the girls BEFORE THEY WERE ALLOWED TO GO. The girls had to have a ride to and from the trails before they were allowed to go that day.


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[Shiressleuth]

Maybe you're placing too great emphasis on the role of witnesses. It's been reported that witnesses sighted a man who LE believe committed the crime, but no eye witness observed the actual crime taking place.

The purpose of LE creating a sketch with help of the eye witnesses is NOT to locate people so that eye witnesses can yea or nay individuals who LE have labelled POIs. The eye witnesses have already done their part by helping to create the composite.

LE released the sketch in an attempt to seek out others who are aware of incriminating information regarding any individual who bears a likeness to the sketch, in order to link that person directly to the murders. It's some sort of personal and firsthand information that is required in furthering a conviction of guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. The burden of proof is far greater than someone who looks like the photo or sketch and has no solid alibi.

Whether it's the US, UK, Canada or any other country who's justice system is based on the Presumption of Innocence, that's just the way it is, thankfully so.

When does the eye witness physically eyeball and identify the suspect?
(Note : in the uk it would not even be allowed to name someone let alone put their photos in the media connecting them to a murder unless they had been charged with it so even that part is alien to me)

 

[Jax49]

The exact quote from the show when MP was asked how the sketch was created was, "from an eye witness, person, who saw a person that looked like this, leaving that area, around that time, that day."


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Thanks. Are you suggesting BG isn't the man in the sketch or that BG isn't the killer?

moo

 

[newredtabby]

I was not referring to you. If I was I would have quoted your post.

You would also be taking offense to all the others who agreed with me.

My statement was merely that. A statement. Nothing more, not directed at any one person. Just the theme throughout the thread. IMO

Well you were replying to a user who had quoted my statement, so....


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[Shiressleuth]

The Dad knew to pick up the girls BEFORE THEY WERE ALLOWED TO GO. The girls had to have a ride to and from the trails before they were allowed to go that day.


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I think that is Mama's exact point.

 

[newredtabby]

Thanks. Are you suggesting BG isn't the man in the sketch or that BG isn't the killer?

moo

No, not suggesting anything other than just because a witness saw this guy leaving the area around that time, doesn't mean the crime was over and done.


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[Jax49]

No, not suggesting anything other than just because a witness saw this guy leaving the area around that time, doesn't mean the crime was over and done.


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Understood. I'd lean more in that direction if LE hadn't been on the show when the very short timeline was discussed. moo