IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

[Deleted member 102539]

Unless, he (BG) just passed them off to an accomplice. JMO.

Even could have been a woman on the driver seat, taking the girls away. He meanwhile left on foot, got seen by a witness, looked self-assured at the person and walked unimpeded towards ... ? Then met with the accomplice and the girls in some shed perhaps?
If the girls hadn't been found for weeks and months, nobody later would have been able to exactly describe him.
IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding the number of witnesses, here is what Holeman said in the interview Spellbound transcribed (thank you):

A: [7.45]. is it a few people kind of , possibly that saw him, or there was more than a couple that called in, right?

H: Yeah. There's ... I would say that's a good statement, there's more than a few that said they saw him. Now, I guess we have to determine there was other people on that trail, or they actually seen that guy is responsible for this, or they seen somebody else that was just out there walking.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65&p=13565009#post13565009

 

[asyousay]

So if a few saw him then surely they would of recognized DN when he was arrested for all the other stuff?

We are not talking about one eye witness by the sounds of it.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Hi Daae,

IIRC, when LE released the sketch in July, they said it was a composite from witnesses who saw him.

How do we know it is not Abby or Libby who described the perpetrator via mobile phone. The only people I can think of that could have come close enough to say the eyes weren't blue are Abby or Libby. Whilst the mobile was still recording

IMHO
KR
Reacher

 

[Yellow Rose]

Wouldn’t he have had blood on him had a witness seen him leaving? I keep trying to think how it’s possible that at least one of the girls wouldn’t have yelled for help and the only thing I can think of that would have at least stopped me would have been a slit throat. And if the other girl saw this happening why would she not have yelled? I can’t get the logistics worked out in my head how this could happen to both girls and I’ve been mulling thru this case since February and 77 threads.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Wouldn’t he have had blood on him had a witness seen him leaving? I keep trying to think how it’s possible that at least one of the girls wouldn’t have yelled for help and the only thing I can think of that would have at least stopped me would have been a slit throat. And if the other girl saw this happening why would she not have yelled? I can’t get the logistics worked out in my head how this could happen to both girls and I’ve been mulling thru this case since February and 77 threads.

I am just thinking the witness may be the mobile phone recording as it could have recorded sad events from beginning to end and articulated by one of the girls, knowing the phone was recording Just a wacky theory and nothing more.

IMHO
KR
Reacher

 

[relentless.]

I have been following this for quite some time. I find Gray's recent animation video to really put things into perspective. My biggest question is how did he arrive and how did he leave?

 

[relentless.]

I am just thinking the witness may be the mobile phone recording as it could have recorded sad events from beginning to end and articulated by one of the girls, knowing the phone was recording Just a wacky theory and nothing more.

IMHO
KR
Reacher

Agreed. LE knows it wouldn't benefit the investigation divulging that information. You can't get a better "eye witness" than a camera.

 

[HockeyMom330]

Hey yall! ! A few things.... I saw 1 person mention it and I can't believe it hasn't been discussed more. Gray says he had it confirmed.that it was Abbys clothing in the edge of the picture of Bridge guy. That she was still on the bridge! This is the first I have heard that, although we speculated it to smithereens. That to me is so shocking. And terrifying! For Libbys to see him closing in on baby and all she can do is urge her on, wait for her and start recording.

Also, about the phone, a new detail to me was that Libbys dad called and they didn't answer. Called again. Didn't answer. But did not say it went straight to voicemail. So it prob wasn't off yet. They even said on Dr Phil that they thought they had lost the phone. So that makes me think it was still ringing. Later that night, Mike says the phone was now going to voice mail. So it either died or was turned off. I actually think it probably just died. I think the fact that it was probably on early is telling. I don't think killer touched the phone. For whatever reason. Either he was there and gone so fast he wasn't worried about them pinging the phone or she hid it. I think it never crossed his mind that he could have been recorded. At all. This was the first time i have seen a recording like this! I think he wasn't worried about the phone because he didn't care if they were found. He was already gone!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I watched the Grey Hughes animation video and found it chilling. Those girls must have been so frightened to see a predator closing in on them.

In my mind I had assumed that the girls were side by side for much of their hike. I envisioned them mostly walking together down the trail and across the bridge, probably chatting and giggling. I figured they would have been together when approached by BG. But the video makes it appear that Libby had already made it across the bridge ahead of Abby and that BG closed in on Abby as she was reaching the SE end of the bridge (it was really interesting that the dark blur in one of the BG photos may actually have been Abby's clothing). I hadn't considered the possiblity that the girls were more than arms length apart, and that BG was that close to one of the girls when Libby got the video. I always thought they filmed him aprroaching from a distance.

Instead of filming, Libby could have possibly run away when she sensed danger and saw BG getting close to Abby, but she chose to stick with her friend who was trapped on the bridge. I think Libby captured the entire abduction on her phone. She really is a hero.

 

[MistyWaters]

If he carried or chased them through water then maybe one floated away and had to be looked for down river or incase they find a random shoe or pair then maybe it’ll help them figure out it’s where it happened

No the searchers were not looking for a shoe, The shoe colour was used to confirm the identity of the bodies when the girls were found by the searchers. That would suggest the shoes were not somewhere else.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I watched the Grey Hughes animation video and found it chilling. Those girls must have been so frightened to see a predator closing in on them.

In my mind I had assumed that the girls were side by side for much of their hike. I envisioned them mostly walking together down the trail and across the bridge, probably chatting and giggling. I figured they would have been together when approached by BG. But the video makes it appear that Libby had already made it across the bridge ahead of Abby and that BG closed in on Abby as she was reaching the SE end of the bridge (it was really interesting that the dark blur in one of the BG photos may actually have been Abby's clothing). I hadn't considered the possiblity that the girls were more than arms length apart, and that BG was that close to one of the girls when Libby got the video. I always thought they filmed him aprroaching from a distance.

Instead of filming, Libby could have possibly run away when she sensed danger and saw BG getting close to Abby, but she chose to stick with her friend who was trapped on the bridge. I think Libby captured the entire abduction on her phone. She really is a hero.

I also think the whole thing was captured (recorded) on the mobile phone. Whether it be pictorial or verbal

KR
Reacher

 

[MistyWaters]

No but it could be one of the similarities that have made him a POI. One other similarity could be murder on or near a trail. 3rd similarity could be manner of death.
:cow:
Some have referred to the 41 minutes referred to by Dr. Phil. We have discussed this before when we were briefly allowed to discuss the details from a GH video. That time is from 2.30 when BG was caught on video (by Libby) until DG's unanswered 3.11 p.m. call, the presumption being the call could not be answered because the girls had already been killed by then. So the crime happened within that 41 time frame or less even. If DG is also the witness who saw BG leaving when he got there at 3.14 then the time of the murder would be at least 10 mins prior to that time, so approx 3 p.m.
It would be interesting to know if DG remembers what cars were in the trailhead car park and where the witness saw BG.
:cow:
Eta. One more thought. If DG or another witness saw BG walking back to the trailhead, that really does discount any notion he had a car parked at or anywhere near the South end of the bridge doesn't it?

I must not have paid attention to something which does happen. BG was captured on video at 2:30? The source was the Dr Phil show???

The snapchat of Abby on the bridge was taken at 2:07. That places the girls on the bridge for an half hour and poses even more unanswered questions. After watching GH's videos, now I'm confused. It also alters the theory the girls were being followed. ???

 

[TeaTime]

I must not have paid attention to something which does happen. BG was captured on video at 2:30? The source was the Dr Phil show???

The snapchat of Abby on the bridge was taken at 2:07. That places the girls on the bridge for an half hour and poses even more unanswered questions. After watching GH's videos, now I'm confused.

Considering that others have crossed the bridge and reported that it took about 5 minutes, even for first timers, it seems that the girls were indeed lollygagging which is what I would expect of young teens. They were in no rush, had been on the trail and bridge for 45 minutes before that photographic image of BG was taken and still had 1/2 hour before DG would be there to pick them up.

GH opines that the girls saw BG at the fork in the trail near the entrance point that we see in photos with the signage and that BG stalked them to the bridge, knowing that no one had taken the trail to the left and no one was behind him on that trail either.

 

[Jerrod]

I watched the Grey Hughes animation video and found it chilling. Those girls must have been so frightened to see a predator closing in on them.

Definitely.

 

[FindHG]

My first post on the site. Thoughts:-

Logical assumption they where watched/followed and stalked over the bridge.

1. Why force them down the hill in the direction of the creek. Was he herding them towards a vehicle or felt safe enough to attack them near the creek? Could the area be easily seen from the bridge and other areas including the houses nearby? How often do Locals walk the trails there? Was there any areas in that direction a vehicle could be parked?

2. Why attack them .. if he was sexually motivated .. did the attack go wrong. Did he girls run together over the creek to get away, I would but would not leave my best friend behind - kind of makes sense. Did the girls run hence no DNA evidence?

3. The image of the guy following them his clothes looked like he was hiding a weapon of some kind. Why would the police not post what weapon caused the injuries? Was it something very unusual?

Heartbreaking .. I hope the relatives find the answers out soon.

Please let me add my welcome to gregjrich's so kindness.

Thank you for joining WS and taking the time to share thoughts, LaurelTedytamer.

:welcome6:​

I have been following this for quite some time. I find Gray's recent animation video to really put things into perspective. My biggest question is how did he arrive and how did he leave?

Relentless! Thank you for joining WS! For taking the time to pitch in and I hope you continue! Great nickname too.

:welcome4:​

 

[MistyWaters]

Considering that others have crossed the bridge and reported that it took about 5 minutes, even for first timers, it seems that the girls were indeed lollygagging which is what I would expect of young teens. They were in no rush, had been on the trail and bridge for 45 minutes before that photographic image of BG was taken and still had 1/2 hour before DG would be there to pick them up.

GH opines that the girls saw BG at the fork in the trail near the entrance point that we see in photos with the signage and that BG stalked them to the bridge, knowing that no one had taken the trail to the left and no one was behind him on that trail either.

Yes the fork in the trail was indeed a lookout opportunity. If they spent 1/2 hour on the bridge as opposed meandering across, just stopping to take the photo BG had to have been also watching them on the bridge for quite some time - but in that same 1/2 hour anyone could've started down the trail to the bridge without BG knowing. That scenario just doesn't seem as stealthily preplanned as I had imagined.

 

[FindHG]

Wouldn’t he have had blood on him had a witness seen him leaving? I keep trying to think how it’s possible that at least one of the girls wouldn’t have yelled for help and the only thing I can think of that would have at least stopped me would have been a slit throat. And if the other girl saw this happening why would she not have yelled? I can’t get the logistics worked out in my head how this could happen to both girls and I’ve been mulling thru this case since February and 77 threads.

Once I learned of the narrow time window 40 minutes or so it was chilling.

That he could encounter them on the bridge, murderer them, then run into a witness who saw him face to face well enough to know his eyes weren't blue and not give away a thing, seems chilling.

He's cold blooded, calm, adept as presenting himself as almost weak and soft, my impression of the sketch. I think when Abby and Libby neared the end of the bridge, he struck and threatened them as he planned, at that very moment, in that very spot, to not let get to where they had a better chance of getting away off the path.

But it all started going wrong for him from that point on too because his image and voice were captured.

 

[Shiressleuth]

So if a few saw him then surely they would of recognized DN when he was arrested for all the other stuff?

We are not talking about one eye witness by the sounds of it.

So I wonder why he hasnt been excluded yet?

 

[MistyWaters]

Anyone watching GH videos notice how close the private drive is to the end of the bridge? IIRC that was the residence of the snowbirds, anyone feel free to correct me if that's not correct.

 

[MistyWaters]

So I wonder why he hasnt been excluded yet?

I suppose the same question could be asked about any one of the hundred of other POIs. Too much time has already passed for a conviction based only on an eye witness ID imo.