IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

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RBBM

Hi, TeaTime,

Yes, an iPhone 6 (which Libby reportedly had) will ring if it is recording. The recording abruptly stops when the phone rings. A poster on here tested it this past summer.
HTH

It does make me wonder about Libby’s phone ringing (unless it was muted) and the short window of time between the abduction and relatives calling out for the girls.

The killer had a very short window, and perhaps his intentions were thwarted, and he felt he was disposing of witnesses. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the discussion. This is all about ideas that lead to the arrest and conviction of the person who committed this crime. Still visit this thread every day and hope there will be a post where the person responsible is caught.
 
RBBM

Hi, TeaTime,

Yes, an iPhone 6 (which Libby reportedly had) will ring if it is recording. The recording abruptly stops when the phone rings. A poster on here tested it this past summer.
HTH

The ringer can also be turned off and set to vibrate, common for someone who carries the iPhone in their pocket.
 
It is so perplexing, with two people sighting him and Libby's recording of him, that he hasn't been identified.

I wish I had a better sense of the number of people around at the time. Back then (February 2017) there were some other teens interviewed by the media who said they were there on the trail that day. They all seemed legitimately sad, and I don’t think they had anything to do with the crime. There were other people in the area, as well, yet no one saw anything. It’s such a frustrating crime, and why I tend to lean toward he didn’t track them across the bridge, but caught them as they were heading toward the end of the bridge. He walked up the end, passed them, and then made his move. All the same, no way to know that for sure, just a feeling. I wish Gray Hughes would make a video how that might look.
 
This is why an attempted abduction fits the short timeframe imo.

Think Elizabeth Smart.

Libby's grandfather said she was a strong-willed girl, would've put up a fight.

I have always thought they tried to get away and he killed them for it.
 
I have always thought they tried to get away and he killed them for it.


I think that is definitely possible, and why they all got *possibly* wet going across Deer Creek. With the latest timeline information from the Dr. Phil show, somehow it appears the girls got to the their final resting spot crossing the creek.

If you’ve been following this case for a while, like I have, there was some speculation the girls were led backwards across the bridge to the area on the northside of the bridge, from where their bodies were found, without having to cross the Deer Creek.

Not saying that still couldn’t be the case, but it is looking more likely everyone was soaking wet. At nightfall, despite the apparent warm Indiana temps that day, at night, it was cold.
 
I edited my first post. I was wrong... the attorney didn't ask for a gag order; he asked that court records be sealed.

I'm not sure how much of a difference there is. Sorry, can't answer your questions.

Where is the gag order, case number, court.
All I recall was a sealed subpoena filed in Indiana for records.
 
I would absolutely LOVE to know if either witness has had anything to say specifically about DNs mugshot....or any other suspects so far.
 
Thinking of the families of Abby and Libby. This Christmas has to be so difficult for them.

As for the timeline, we don't know if the perp was still in the woods when Libby's Dad arrived, or when the searching began. We don't know that he had wet clothes on. He could have been parked nearby, or had a change of clothes if he did get wet. We just don't know.

After watching numerous videos about that bridge, I do not believe he led them back across that long bridge. I think the risk would have been too high for someone else coming onto the bridge, a situation he couldn't control. While the crime itself appears so high risk to begin with, abducting TWO girls in the middle of the day, with people all on the trails...what would have been a possible plan had he encountered an adult couple on that bridge while he was abducting the girls? I just don't think it happened that way.

The video that woman and her husband did, walking across the bridge to the private property, down that hill, and that creek was there quickly. On maps it looks like it's so far away, and too steep, etc. But it wasn't. It wasn't a strenuous walk for the couple that did that video. They didn't walk far, and the creek with that 'island' in the middle was right there, and then the crime scene right across. I think that probably was the way he led them.


"IF" the girls were immediately killed at that creek, or at the site they were found, then I think I'm changing my view on this. Any reason at all that someone had a grudge against either family or a family member in either family? Could it be a hit, whether professional, gang, or someone with a grudge wanting to get even, or make whoever comply with their terms? Is that far fetch thinking? I don't know. We've all heard the saying "Snitches get stitches" and the saying that people will kill a loved one of the person that are pissed at when it involves drugs or debt due, or gangs.

Yes people have killed just to kill for the thrill. But this crime was in a narrow timeline, how much thrill could it have been? I guess I'll never understand that. I wonder if it was someone high on drugs, and like in the Holly Bobo case, they abducted her from her house, and then raped and killed her. And supposively she was a stranger to them, though her Mom had taught at least some of the perps in school. Whether they knew of Holly or not, they weren't buddies.

Just so darn sad, and frustrating.
 
He also released an excellent updated crime flow video yesterday. Interesting tidbits including parts of Abby's clothing being captured in Libby's BG video frame!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dkJ-U07So4

Thanks for this. One thing I hadn't realized was the bodies were discovered almost directly across the river from the end of the bridge, after going "down the hill".
 
Sadly, I agree. More than enough resources have been dedicated to this case to do a thorough vetting of leads. The rhetoric now is no different than in the first days after the murders: hoping for that one tip which will break this case and lead to an arrest.

The “one tip” plea by LE has evolved though.
From the beginning they have been asking for someone that knows or suspects to call in —

IMHO Now it seems LE is specifically asking a “wife or a brother” to call in.

I am speculating that perhaps BG was seen before or after the crime, with someone at a distance.
Maybe the body language indicated “close family.”
 
RBBM

Hi, TeaTime,

Yes, an iPhone 6 (which Libby reportedly had) will ring if it is recording. The recording abruptly stops when the phone rings. A poster on here tested it this past summer.
HTH


Ok. Even if that is all true, it still doesn't mean BG had left the scene yet, just that the phone call at 3:11 or 3:14 was not answered. True? We do not know the time that the witness saw BG leaving the area. True? I mean this with all due respect to everyone, everywhere, if it doesn't come from LE's mouth, IMHO - it doesn't count. So, before I get too invested in a 41 or 44 minute timeline (but not both) and what it could possibly mean that would help solve this case: has LE confirmed that a 3:11 or 3:14 call was made? I can not remember but I like to work with facts.
 
Where I live, we had a case of a ten year old walking to school. A man bundled her into the trunk of his car, drove to a nearby pond, violently sexually assaulted her, tied her hands and feet to her school bag, threw her in the pond, where she drowned, all in the space of twenty minutes.
 
Where I live, we had a case of a ten year old walking to school. A man bundled her into the trunk of his car, drove to a nearby pond, violently sexually assaulted her, tied her hands and feet to her school bag, threw her in the pond, where she drowned, all in the space of twenty minutes.

OMG how awful
 
I wish I had a better sense of the number of people around at the time. Back then (February 2017) there were some other teens interviewed by the media who said they were there on the trail that day. They all seemed legitimately sad, and I don’t think they had anything to do with the crime. There were other people in the area, as well, yet no one saw anything. It’s such a frustrating crime, and why I tend to lean toward he didn’t track them across the bridge, but caught them as they were heading toward the end of the bridge. He walked up the end, passed them, and then made his move. All the same, no way to know that for sure, just a feeling. I wish Gray Hughes would make a video how that might look.

There's a couple of his recent videos by Gray Hughes where he theorizes how the girls were followed that you might find interesting.

Crime Flow V3 - Walking in Libby's and Abby's Shoes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8dkJ-U07So4

Libby and Abby 3D Animation
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21KWPDhrpc4
 
OMG how awful

That is how quick it can happen. I know that this creep had to walk them 'down the hill', but the assault part does not have to take long at all. In fact, the more excited they become because of the control factor, the less time the assault would take. I am not saying that this was sexually motivated, but I would be surprised if it weren't.
 
2Hope4 wrote: "IF" the girls were immediately killed at that creek, or at the site they were found, then I think I'm changing my view on this. Any reason at all that someone had a grudge against either family or a family member in either family? Could it be a hit, whether professional, gang, or someone with a grudge wanting to get even, or make whoever comply with their terms? Is that far fetch thinking? I don't know. We've all heard the saying "Snitches get stitches" and the saying that people will kill a loved one of the person that are pissed at when it involves drugs or debt due, or gangs."

I think this may be it and have thought variations of it since the murders occurred. I don't think this was a professional hit, necessarily, but definitely a revengeful, targeted hit. He knew the girls would be there....how, I don't know, but something was overheard(?). He may not live in the area now but is known by some who do, and likely has visited fequently. This is all JMO and I don't know the reason the girls were murdered but I have a couple of guesses that I have broached here before.
Again this is pure speculation on my part.
 
Where I live, we had a case of a ten year old walking to school. A man bundled her into the trunk of his car, drove to a nearby pond, violently sexually assaulted her, tied her hands and feet to her school bag, threw her in the pond, where she drowned, all in the space of twenty minutes.

Dear God that is horrific.
 
Jmo if LE thought that a particular person had info about a specific suspect...they would be bringing that person in for questioning, not making anonymous appeals hoping that one person would get the message. That person may or may not talk but vague appeals are not going to do it either.

At some point, LE will have to release more details that might spark a memory in someone who has not considered they might know who the suspect is. Clearly, they are getting nowhere...unable to even eliminate people.

Jmo obviously.
 
Ok. Even if that is all true, it still doesn't mean BG had left the scene yet, just that the phone call at 3:11 or 3:14 was not answered. True? We do not know the time that the witness saw BG leaving the area. True? I mean this with all due respect to everyone, everywhere, if it doesn't come from LE's mouth, IMHO - it doesn't count. So, before I get too invested in a 41 or 44 minute timeline (but not both) and what it could possibly mean that would help solve this case: has LE confirmed that a 3:11 or 3:14 call was made? I can not remember but I like to work with facts.

The main objective of the Dr Phil show last week was to solicit tips in order to solve the case and in order to do so, ISP Superintendent Doug Carter was present along with family members of both girls. The show was pretaped (and in fact was originally set to air the previous Friday). Given that, the information presented was indeed factual.....but that's just my opinion.
 
The main objective of the Dr Phil show last week was to solicit tips in order to solve the case and in order to do so, ISP Superintendent Doug Carter was present along with family members of both girls. The show was pretaped (and in fact was originally set to air the previous Friday). Given that, the information presented was indeed factual.....but that's just my opinion.

Just jumping off your post. Earlier someone asked when it was tapped, suggesting the info was out of date. I did notice that several times reference was made to the 10 month anniversary, so I think it is safe to assume it was tapped recently.

moo
 
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