IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #77

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July 17 press conference transcription excerpt from thread #62 post #236:

Q. In the release you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color, can you talk about this at this time?

A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was .... the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh .... the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious .... the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.

Q. So there are people out there who are sure they saw this guy walking around this day and they helped you out, is that it?

A. Pretty much that's what it is, yes.

Q. Did those people come forward right away, or did it take a little time for those people to come forward?

A. It's been a while. It took a little bit, people are scared, they are afraid to be recognized by the subject, so, it just takes a while for these things to happened. Like I said, the picture did not come overnight, we've been working on this for a while.

Thank you for this post. I had just found the PC again and was reminded how many times he said SHE and how quickly he "corrected" himself. As in, oops, I wasn't supposed to reveal it is a single female witness.

moo
 
July 17 press conference transcription excerpt from thread #62 post #236:

Q. In the release you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color, can you talk about this at this time?

A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was .... the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh .... the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious .... the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.

Q. So there are people out there who are sure they saw this guy walking around this day and they helped you out, is that it?

A. Pretty much that's what it is, yes.

Q. Did those people come forward right away, or did it take a little time for those people to come forward?

A. It's been a while. It took a little bit, people are scared, they are afraid to be recognized by the subject, so, it just takes a while for these things to happened. Like I said, the picture did not come overnight, we've been working on this for a while.
So it seems we have a female witness ( around 1.50/1.55 ) and a male witness (around 3 p.m) who both saw BG. That's good news putting BG at the scene between 1.50 and 3.00 p.m. and on the bridge with the girls at 2.30 p.m. - just a positive id from them needed now.
 
The sister was asked what color shoes by the searchers who found the bodies. Not about clothes, hair color, etc. That is highly significant to me. moo

I am not sure about the significance of the shoe color and identification Libby’s sister provided to the investigators during the final stretch of the search. If the investigators did, in fact, ask for the color of a shoe, it’s because they either found a shoe away from the from the direct site where the bodies were found, or found a body and hoped the identification would provide a clue about who they had found. Things were moving fast, I am sure.

Rereading what I just wrote, it does sound kind of dumb, but it could be the bodies weren’t found at the same time.

It could also be the shoe was found in another location, too, away from the body. My opinion only. So many unknowns.
 
Thank you for this post. I had just found the PC again and was reminded how many times he said SHE and how quickly he "corrected" himself. As in, oops, I wasn't supposed to reveal it is a single female witness.

moo

Hi Jax,

I sincerely hope BG didn’t get as good a look at any of the witnesses as they did of him. I understand why LE is keeping an extra tight lip on witness-related information. But I still wish we knew for sure what time he was seen leaving.
 
One huge take away from the Dr. Phil show, which he kept reiterating was the narrow window of time in which the murders were committed. Dr. Phil continued to pull it in to just 41 minutes.. Police Superintendent Carter was sitting there agreeing.

IMO , That would be 15 min down 15 min back and 10 min to commit the murders and cover bodies, eliminate evidence.
 
Hi Jax,

I sincerely hope BG didn’t get as good a look at any of the witnesses as they did of him. I understand why LE is keeping an extra tight lip on witness-related information. But I still wish we knew for sure what time he was seen leaving.

She must have been and still is terrified. Brave girl or woman to provide input for the sketch. moo
 
I am not sure about the significance of the shoe color and identification Libby’s sister provided to the investigators during the final stretch of the search. If the investigators did, in fact, ask for the color of a shoe, it’s because they either found a shoe away from the from the direct site where the bodies were found, or found a body and hoped the identification would provide a clue about who they had found. Things were moving fast, I am sure.

Rereading what I just wrote, it does sound kind of dumb, but it could be the bodies weren’t found at the same time.

It could also be the shoe was found in another location, too, away from the body. My opinion only. So many unknowns.

It seemed the shoe(s) were near the bodies because of the way the sister described it. She was asked what color shoes by the searchers and when she yelled back the color, they quickly responded they'd found the girls.

Paraphrasing, but I think it is pretty accurate. moo

ETA: Broke my heart listening to her and thinking how close she was to the location. Thankfully she didn't see her sister.
 
One huge take away from the Dr. Phil show, which he kept reiterating was the narrow window of time in which the murders were committed. Dr. Phil continued to pull it in to just 41 minutes.. Police Superintendent Carter was sitting there agreeing.

IMO , That would be 15 min down 15 min back and 10 min to commit the murders and cover bodies, eliminate evidence.
I guess that 41 mins would be from 2.30 (the video of BG on the bridge) until 3.11 (when Libby does not answer).
 
One huge take away from the Dr. Phil show, which he kept reiterating was the narrow window of time in which the murders were committed. Dr. Phil continued to pull it in to just 41 minutes.. Police Superintendent Carter was sitting there agreeing.

IMO , That would be 15 min down 15 min back and 10 min to commit the murders and cover bodies, eliminate evidence.

Thats how I see this going down more or less.
Chilling

Now reverse engineer this and what do we find?
What type of murderer does that?
How?
What would make him?
Did they intend to commit murder?
Was this person hanging around the trails looking for an opportunity?
Did they have an exit plan?
 
DN isn't the guy. This was a professional. The more you look around at the facts, the clearer it becomes.

< respectfully snipped for focus >

Yes, I agree the murders were not happenstance on a wild notion that two young girls may be on MHB.
 
I guess that 41 mins would be from 2.30 (the video of BG on the bridge) until 3.11 (when Libby does not answer).

I think it is more likely from 2:30p (the time of the photo of BG on the bridge) until the time the witness saw BG leaving the area, a time we do not know. I put zero stock in Carter not correcting the 41 minute time line if it were not correct because he is not going to give out ANY details - period.

Further, I put no stock in the 3:11 unanswered call because while I am not sure, I don't think the phone will ring when it is recording audio and video. Will it?

Interesting that there could be 2 witnesses to BG's presence at the trail since we were informed throughout the case that witnesses saw only a man in black and a couple. Of course that information came from media, not LE, IIRC.
 
I would hate for the shoe being found away from the bodies as working it&#8217;s way into a fact.
We don&#8217;t know and there was no talk or indication about this honestly.
We only know they asked her what color.
 
One huge take away from the Dr. Phil show, which he kept reiterating was the narrow window of time in which the murders were committed. Dr. Phil continued to pull it in to just 41 minutes.. Police Superintendent Carter was sitting there agreeing.

IMO , That would be 15 min down 15 min back and 10 min to commit the murders and cover bodies, eliminate evidence.

Unless, he (BG) just passed them off to an accomplice. JMO.
 
Thats how I see this going down more or less.
Chilling

Now reverse engineer this and what do we find?
What type of murderer does that?
How?
What would make him?
Did they intend to commit murder?
Was this person hanging around the trails looking for an opportunity?
Did they have an exit plan?

Okay, I&#8217;ll bite.

Reverse engineering, to me, is to examine the crime backwards from the suspect&#8217;s get away, backed up to his meeting the girls on the bridge, and backed up to where he was and what he was doing before he, himself, got on the bridge.

In the end, his pants would likely be wet. He would be trudging away, avoiding all contact with anyone. He may have found a spot to hide. He may have been cold. He got away.

Prior to that, he *may* have heard people calling for the girls. He may have decided to wrap things up.

He might have even felt fear for getting caught.

Prior to that, he led an all out horrible assault on two innocent girls.

Before that, he saw the girls. He was either under the bridge on the &#8220;down the hill&#8221; side, or tracked them from the drop off point.

Before that, I have my theories, as do you. If you have visited the scanner thread, you will find other evidence, and what might have happened before the final crime scene.

Who does this?

I do lean toward a sociopath, a child killer, and an opportunist. I have not ruled out he was hiding out in RL&#8217;s outbuildings a day or days before.
 
I would hate for the shoe being found away from the bodies as working it’s way into a fact.
We don’t know and there was no talk or indication about this honestly.
We only know they asked her what color.

I agree. In that the shoe colour was used as a method to ID the girl's bodies it would seem a logical assumption to make that the shoe was on the foot of a body.
 
One huge take away from the Dr. Phil show, which he kept reiterating was the narrow window of time in which the murders were committed. Dr. Phil continued to pull it in to just 41 minutes.. Police Superintendent Carter was sitting there agreeing.

IMO , That would be 15 min down 15 min back and 10 min to commit the murders and cover bodies, eliminate evidence.

This is why an attempted abduction fits the short timeframe imo.

Think Elizabeth Smart.

Libby's grandfather said she was a strong-willed girl, would've put up a fight.
 
I think it is more likely from 2:30p (the time of the photo of BG on the bridge) until the time the witness saw BG leaving the area, a time we do not know. I put zero stock in Carter not correcting the 41 minute time line if it were not correct because he is not going to give out ANY details - period.

Further, I put no stock in the 3:11 unanswered call because while I am not sure, I don't think the phone will ring when it is recording audio and video. Will it?

Interesting that there could be 2 witnesses to BG's presence at the trail since we were informed throughout the case that witnesses saw only a man in black and a couple. Of course that information came from media, not LE, IIRC.

RBBM

Hi, TeaTime,

Yes, an iPhone 6 (which Libby reportedly had) will ring if it is recording. The recording abruptly stops when the phone rings. A poster on here tested it this past summer.
HTH
 
I guess that 41 mins would be from 2.30 (the video of BG on the bridge) until 3.11 (when Libby does not answer).

I actually think it should be 44 minutes because Derek started walking and searching at 3:14.
 
It is so perplexing, with two people sighting him and Libby's recording of him, that he hasn't been identified.
 
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