IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #78

[Shiressleuth]

In addition to what others have already pointed out, namely, that LE has not cleared a single one of the hundreds of POIs, we must also not ignore some inconvenient facts. KN said DN resembles the sketch, yes. But so do 1000+ others whose photos and names were sent as tips to LE. Obviously, resembling the sketch has limited probative value. KN also said she doesn’t think DN murdered the girls. She doesn’t even think he could do something like that. So, if we’re valuing her opinion on the sketch, we should also value her opinion on other matters. In addition, KN said DN had few clothes, none of which was a blue jacket. She said he had no vehicle at the time (since they were basically separated). If he needed a ride, he had to call her. No one else has come forward to say they loaned him a vehicle on 2/13. So, the picture is pretty clear about 2/13. DN was down and out with few friends other than KN. Had he needed a vehicle, would someone have just given him the keys? Doubtful. To the point: because someone is a loser who gives us a bad vibe is of no evidentiary value.

He was living in a car that was loaned to him by the Bortners. I wonder if LE impounded that car?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes that's certainly possible I would think. And the family member who keeps silent might also have other reasons associated with protecting their own reputation, shame and fear of blame. It's not uncommon to observe public rage and vicious criticism directed at the entire family of the accused even though they had no involvement.

Another reason for not turning someone in is the belief that only God has the right to judge. (Just stating this, not to launch a religious debate.)

Ian Huntley (who killed two young girls in the UK) had a partner who did this - Maxine Carr was convicted of PTCOJ for not sharing what she knew.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

LE say that they have his dna. Who do we believe? A homeless man or LE?

The only facts we have to go on at this point is what LE says.

Unfortunately that has never stopped some from believing what they choose to believe.

Which is why juries send innocent people to prison and allow guilty to go free.

The justice system isn't perfect by any means as you know.

I can only hope the actual jury for this case knows to distinguish between rumor and fact.

 

[mtnlites]

The only facts we have to go on at this point is what LE says.

Unfortunately that has never stopped some from believing what they choose to believe.

Which is why juries send innocent people to prison and allow guilty to go free.

The justice system isn't perfect by any means as you know.

I can only hope the actual jury for this case knows to distinguish between rumor and fact.

It's true, that the only real facts we have are the ones that come from LE. I take everything else with a grain of salt, even when it's prefaced by the fact that an "insider" gave them the information.

My cousin works law enforcement in Carroll County and, in the first few weeks of this crime, he was on the case. Although I have discussed certain aspects of it, he says that even LE is kind of on a "need to know" basis and many things are kept quiet. There are questions that we have that he doesn't know the answer to, either, and he's at least on the peripheral side of the case, if no longer in the middle.

I am choosing to believe LE at this point. I realize that they will sometimes bluff or make a strategic comment or disclosure to help tilt the odds in their favor, but since we have such little information at the moment, I choose to take their word for things.

 

[Shiressleuth]

For a new topic,
This is the first I've seen of this MSM post mentioning Logansport.

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.


Several commenters (see fb link) discuss seeing a man with a duffle bag hitchhiking around the area that day.

https://www.wthr.com/article/tips-pour-in-after-suspect-identified-in-delphi-double-homicide

The duffle bag quote! So glad you found this thanks.
Very interesting posts overnight .

 

[Shiressleuth]

It's true, that the only real facts we have are the ones that come from LE. I take everything else with a grain of salt, even when it's prefaced by the fact that an "insider" gave them the information.

My cousin works law enforcement in Carroll County and, in the first few weeks of this crime, he was on the case. Although I have discussed certain aspects of it, he says that even LE is kind of on a "need to know" basis and many things are kept quiet. There are questions that we have that he doesn't know the answer to, either, and he's at least on the peripheral side of the case, if no longer in the middle.

I am choosing to believe LE at this point. I realize that they will sometimes bluff or make a strategic comment or disclosure to help tilt the odds in their favor, but since we have such little information at the moment, I choose to take their word for things.

LE can also be careful with their words as in (paraphrasing) " we have talked to everyone we needed to talk to" and "we have taken dna from everyone we have talked to". I just had a thought. I wonder if they took DNA from KN and, as another poster has said, from the children too? They would probably need to do so for the forensic testing on the car. :cow:

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Interesting post mtnlites.

I've always said the locals are the best source of information and you have provided us with many insights.

The location of the bridge is number one in my theory of what happend that day. And you have been telling us all along that it's not a random place a non local would necessarily go to. Then the video posted recently of the drive from Libby's house to the bridge was a great visual of just how rural that area is.

It's true, that the only real facts we have are the ones that come from LE. I take everything else with a grain of salt, even when it's prefaced by the fact that an "insider" gave them the information.

My cousin works law enforcement in Carroll County and, in the first few weeks of this crime, he was on the case. Although I have discussed certain aspects of it, he says that even LE is kind of on a "need to know" basis and many things are kept quiet. There are questions that we have that he doesn't know the answer to, either, and he's at least on the peripheral side of the case, if no longer in the middle.

I am choosing to believe LE at this point. I realize that they will sometimes bluff or make a strategic comment or disclosure to help tilt the odds in their favor, but since we have such little information at the moment, I choose to take their word for things.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Can you provide the link to where LE stated they had audio of the murders?

No sorry I can't but someone else has posted the "stuff of nightmares" link.

 

[kkdj]

LE say that they have his dna. Who do we believe? A homeless man or LE?

They may have it. I think they more than likely do. And DN may not have physically given it to them when they visited him. They could both be telling the truth. Besides, what would DN have to gain by lying about it?

 

[minazoe]

DN is playing the court of public opinion.

so they didn't get his DNA because his lawyer turned them away..

think about it.

If he is innocent he would not be concerned about a DNA sample. He lawyered up. He refused to talk. He refused to volunteer his DNA to the Indiana LE.

He is locked up ...His wife is terrified and is in a shelter, his children are god knows where. But he makes no voluntary move to clear himself.

DNA, polygraph, interview with police, full account of where he was that day.

BUT NO. we get a Jodi Arias style letter claiming empathy with the victims families.

even his own grandmother cannot say one good thing about Daniel Nations...

so there may be hundereds of POI's but right now, DN is the only one I'm interested in.

MOO

 

[asyousay]

DN is playing the court of public opinion.

so they didn't get his DNA because his lawyer turned them away..

think about it.

If he is innocent he would not be concerned about a DNA sample. He lawyered up. He refused to talk. He refused to volunteer his DNA to the Indiana LE.

He is locked up ...His wife is terrified and is in a shelter, his children are god knows where. But he makes no voluntary move to clear himself.

DNA, polygraph, interview with police, full account of where he was that day.

BUT NO. we get a Jodi Arias style letter claiming empathy with the victims families.

even his own grandmother cannot say one good thing about Daniel Nations...

so there may be hundereds of POI's but right now, DN is the only one I'm interested in.

MOO

LE have his DNA so that’s wrong. The quote has been provided before and unless you are saying LE are lying?

There is no concrete proof that Youtube video is legit but interesting you hold more value in that without any proof than you do LE.

 

[first_light]

JMO

The duffel bag.... assuming the BG had a duffel bag 2/13, where was it while he was being inconspicuously photographed on the bridge?

 

[TeaTime]

Even more interesting is the mention of Logansport.

Didn't DN give his DNA voluntarily to LE after his court appointed atty declined on his behalf without his knowledge?

I am not in the DN is BG camp for reason too numerous to repeat.

 

[PepperyOne]

Even more interesting is the mention of Logansport.

Agree! I forgot (or, gasp, never knew) they mentioned Logansport specifically! I just went back to the article to see the date, and it was Feb. 20. So, very early...

 

[first_light]

Even more interesting is the mention of Logansport

There’s a state mental hospital in Logansport as well. ‘Do not pick up hitchhiker’ signs are along the road near this hospital.

MOO

 

[minazoe]

LE have his DNA so that’s wrong. The quote has been provided before and unless you are saying LE are lying?

There is no concrete proof that Youtube video is legit but interesting you hold more value in that without any proof than you do LE.

He insists he has not given his DNA. So already the DNA is arguable and in question. The lawyer will fight this evidence.

he is hanging by his fingernails as far as I'm concerned. MOO

 

[emptybottles]

DN is playing the court of public opinion.

so they didn't get his DNA because his lawyer turned them away..

think about it.

If he is innocent he would not be concerned about a DNA sample. He lawyered up. He refused to talk. He refused to volunteer his DNA to the Indiana LE.

He is locked up ...His wife is terrified and is in a shelter, his children are god knows where. But he makes no voluntary move to clear himself.

DNA, polygraph, interview with police, full account of where he was that day.

BUT NO. we get a Jodi Arias style letter claiming empathy with the victims families.

even his own grandmother cannot say one good thing about Daniel Nations...

so there may be hundereds of POI's but right now, DN is the only one I'm interested in.

MOO

By chance I think I saw KN yesterday while I was out running errands. She must have a set of wheels now and she's about as gangsta looking as DN. Blood red hair and mean looking. They are a pair. I bet if LE charged her with providing a weapon to a felon she would fill in those blank spots quick.

Always remember that LE is under no obligation to tell the public the truth. Think about that when referring to anything they have said.

I would also like to point out that DN has spent a good amount of time behind bars in IN prisons which are a breeding ground for the Saxon Knights. I'm bringing this up because it wasn't long ago that here in CO we had our state prison chief assassinated by a white supremacist gang member who was released from prison and given orders to kill him as part of a much larger plot. In fact the assassin was the son of the good friend of our Governor, and who by all accounts never should have been out of prison in the first place. Not only was the prison chief executed, but an innocent pizza delivery driver was also, simply to obtain his uniform. So motives for the murders in Delphi may not be what they appear to be. (In fact this assassination occurred less than 10 miles from where DN is suspected of killing TW at Mt Herman.)

The point is, if DN was in prison, was unemployed and in need of cash, there is no telling what he was up to in IN and it very well could be that he was in Delphi on that day perhaps fulfilling some obligation he had to other people. Until he and KN provide an alibi you cannot rule DN out and don't be afraid to think outside the box that LE, media and web mods tell you exists.

With all that said, after studying the area, watching videos, etc.... I would have to agree that whoever did this probably knew the area well enough to know where they could take the girls and get away with something like this, or they are just damn lucky because that's about the only spot where someone could have taken those girls and not have been near a home or seen from a road.
My thoughts are:

• The suspect waited and watched until the time was right. He saw his victims and knew there were no witnesses returning from the other end of the bridge.
• The girls were herded to the end of the bridge where the suspect knew they would be trapped and could not turn around.
• There most likely was another suspect waiting "down the hill", else the girls would have had the opportunity to run down the driveway that they would have had to have crossed before reaching the creek. The house at the end of that driveway is not that far away.
• The murder occurred in a very small window of time, possibly 30-45 minutes.
• There is a large bridge under a highway not far away, on the other side of the nature preserve, that looks livable and could be home to vagrants not regularly seen in Delphi.
• There are 4 homeless shelters not far from Delhi.
• BG was not overweight, those are items stuffed into his jacket. Probably duct tape, trash bags, change of clothes and weapons.
• The BG hat is just a camo baseball hat turned backwards.
• How does someone who is wet possibly with blood all over themselves walk back to a car at a parking lot where people are looking for lost girls? they don't.
• DN is the prime suspect in the murder of TW and he is hatchet man.
• DN could be guilty of many other murders we are not aware of.
• Even KN says BG looks like DN, but so do a lot of other homeless white men.
• The Nations were in Denver May 14th according to KN's FB posts, but left Indiana in late April. Where were they those missing 2-3 weeks and are there more victims along their travel path to Colorado?
• In the same May FB post KN says they were robbed of all their money on their way to CO. Another lie? probably.
• DN was arrested after returning to the scene of his crime in SC, and now CO. It is his pattern.
• There is the lingering question of what is similar between the two cases. I believe that to be the COD, and if it is what I suspect then DN would be a prime suspect in the Delphi killings as well.

 

[minazoe]

JMO

The duffel bag.... assuming the BG had a duffel bag 2/13, where was it while he was being inconspicuously photographed on the bridge?

under his coat, to free both hands

. MOO

 

[first_light]

under his coat, to free both hands

. MOO

I think that is likely. The coat looks well oversized for the BG to me.... the overly bunched up sleeves appear too long for him. Possibly not his coat? Most people likely don’t wear a coat large enough to fit their person and a duffel bag inside. Could the BG also have stashed the bag along his getaway route or at the scene where he would eventually take the victims? If bag is in his coat, that suggests to me a lack of planning... that this was an impulsive act. If the bag was purposefully placed elsewhere, i.e. the crime scene, then this was pre-planned and the BG knew the area well. All speculation of course.

MOO

 

[Jax49]

LE say that they have his dna. Who do we believe? A homeless man or LE?

Not just a homeless man, but a RSO. A man accused of several other offenses. The man some believe is a triple murderer.

moo