IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #8

[LaborDayRN]

I think you did an awesome job with the pic. If you click on the picture and slowly shrink it, you can see his face come into focus. Thank you for sharing this.

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:wagon::greetings:

 

[Spin321]

I can't imagine anyone questioning these CHILDREN. Teenagers or not, they're still kids. Huge props to her for getting what she did!! It's probably more helpful than calling 911 and having nothing but her voice. One can't say what they would or wouldn't do in that situation. I can only imagine how absolutely terrifying that would be, and I don't know that calling 911 would be first thing I would do either, although logically that makes sense. JMO


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THIS!


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[Wan2beSleuth]

I've been lurking and following this case since I live in the area.

(modsnip)

With two young kids myself, this whole case has just been spine chilling to me. Sometimes I can't fathom the evil that exists out there.

 

[rpgman]

Are you saying that proves he was hitch hiking? Because they have no idea if he used a skate board or a van or a motor cycle or he walked away from the scene...they were trying to jog a memory in people...that's it.

All im saying is IMO I think they stated that because I believe they think he's without means of transportation and the wording to me means I believe they think he might be walking or hitching...and maybe with a dufflebag...I think they have more on him than their releasing. IMO I believe they might even know of other encounters weeks prior...encounters that suggest he's homeless or a beggar, drifter whatever...just MO.

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[KathCurious]

But risk giving every opportunity for someone to recognize this guy in a time sensitive Mannar over being able to quickly decipher through tips/fake confessions?

This is what I had gathered before and it just seems like such a flawed way of thinking.

But I'm open to the fact I'm new and maybe it's me that has the flawed thought process right now.

Thanks for the reply

No worries, I'm new as well. Just because it made sense to me doesn't mean I'm right. I will say that I suspect that as tips come in, a big problem would be separating the signal from the noise. I've seen quite a few people on other platforms throw out people's names as the potential murderer like candy. There has to be a way to know if a tip has any merit, because when the real one comes in, they will have a much better chance of seeing the signal. The time wasted chasing down bad leads could perhaps be much more costly over time in terms of catching this guy.

 

[chewymolasses]

It also probably started ringing when the girls did not show up to meet their ride. Where was he then? Did he hear it ringing? I just cannot think about it.

Thought I read that it had been turned off


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[WannaBDetective]

LE doesn't seem to think she "accidentally" recorded the events at the bridge... In fact, they said she was a hero for having the presence of mind to record on her phone.

Watching how fast my kids are with their phones, it's possible she could have recorded or snapped a picture and sent it (to mom or a friend). That would potentially answer the question of how LE got hold of their phones. Maybe they didn't.

 

[Cryptic]

It is fairly easy to become totally anonymous on the internet if you have good OPSEC. Purchase a laptop off Craigslist for cash. Use TAILS operating system on a USB stick (this uses TOR for all connections and leaves no trace on the computer). Connect to the internet through an open WiFi network. I don't see the suspect being that tech savvy nor visiting the ISP or FBI website for info.

I disagree.

Rather it depends on who is trying to find you and what resources they are willing to expend to find you. The best example of this are deceased senior Al Queda operatives killed in drone strikes. Al Queda has expert cellular engineers and software engineers in their ranks. Yet, they learned the hard way that despite precautions, electronic contacts can be traced.

In this case, local, state and national level US resources would be employed to track an electronic contact. My guess is that if given the proper priority, the FBI could track an electronic contact to its source. The priority would need to be national security interest level type priority which would bring NSA's computers into play.

.

 

[Rachel1]

I don't think the discussion on"why didn't they just 911" is helpful at all.
Hindsight is 20-20.
Sure, we'd all like to believe that our kids would call 911 immediately if they felt they where in danger but that's not reality.
We have no idea why they didn't call 911 and the only things that can be said about it are just opinion and speculation anyway.
Wondering why they didn't call 911 is bringing us no closer to finding the killer.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Well, my 11 year old has a cell phone and I just asked him what he would do if he had his phone and felt in danger. Without hesitation, he said "call 911." It's not like I had any extensive conversations about 911 with him either.


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I pray your 11 never needs to call 911. We don't know what the girls were dealing with here. The killer may have been holding a weapon or the threat of a weapon on these girls. I think she did amazingly well. Such quick thinking!

 

[Bob Saccamano]

Questioning why Liberty didn't call 911 is bothersome to me.

1. We don't know at what point she realized they were in actual danger. It is possible she was already videoing and he happened to walk up. It may have been her being nervous about the guy that caused her to inadvertently continue recording or do so purposefully but discreetly- just in case. Who calls 911 "just in case this weird guy...?"

There is a considerable transition from being creeped out to calling 911. By the time, she realized she was facing a real threat and not a perceived one, he could have had a gun pointed at her or a knife to her friend's throat.

2. It could be that it was really smart of her to hit record and conceal the phone quickly before he knew she had it in her hand with hopes that she'd get another chance to use it.

3. The idea that people feel that they know what they would do in this situation without even knowing what was happening is absurd.

We know there is a picture of a guy on a bridge and then audio of "...down the hill." That is it. Nothing more is known by us. I do feel that it will come out that this was an extraordinarily brave and astute thing this 14 year old girl did that may end up saving future lives. God bless her.

 

[danid.dd55]

Watching how fast my kids are with their phones, it's possible she could have recorded or snapped a picture and sent it (to mom or a friend). That would potentially answer the question of how LE got hold of their phones. Maybe they didn't.

Or got it from the cloud. It stores pics etc


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[LaborDayRN]

Interesting observations! :thumb:

Sorry for repeat...


But I neglected to post "with quote"

Hiya Clue! Great to see you!

 

[liltexans]

Whether the suspect is local or from elsewhere is still unknown, ISP Capt. Dave Bersten said. Massa noted his agency will be able to expand the investigation across state lines if necessary, and ISP Superintendent Douglas Carter said Gov. Eric Holcomb and FBI Director James Comey have been briefed on the case.

Law enforcement may also need media attention on a national scale to solve the case, he added.

http://www.idsnews.com/article/2017/02/audio-snippet-other-new-details-released-in-delphi-killings

 

[galaxygal]

All web servers keep http connection logs. It will give the originating IP address, the file requested, and other data about the connection.

IP addresses don't mean too much though. A person could be using an open WiFi connection at Starbucks or McDonalds. They could also be using TOR or a VPN that doesn't keep logs, located in another country.

Browser fingerprinting might narrow someone down, but I haven't researched it deeper than in passing.

With the volume of hits going to that mp3 file, its useless trying to find out who is visiting it. It wouldn't be worth investing their resources into it.

It is fairly easy to become totally anonymous on the internet if you have good OPSEC. Purchase a laptop off Craigslist for cash. Use TAILS operating system on a USB stick (this uses TOR for all connections and leaves no trace on the computer). Connect to the internet through an open WiFi network. I don't see the suspect being that tech savvy nor visiting the ISP or FBI website for info.



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Do you think the number of visits from a particular IP could indicate suspicious behavior? or a lot of hits from a particular geographical region?

 

[pesty217]

My thoughts? I would have liked this not to have become a murder investigation at all, because police were notified and showed up and stopped the crime, or found the girls before they passed away, or because the knowledge of police coming scared off the perp before a crime would be committed. There's no guarantee of these things happening, of course, but I feel the girls would have had much more of a chance, in any case, if police had been notified or even if dispatch received a voiceless call from 911 which was investigated. I guess my opinion is not too popular though, oh well!


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I have a feeling that they realized they were in grave danger when the perp unexpectedly subdued one of girls with some type of weapon, maybe a knife? Maybe all she had time to do was quickly hit record. She may have been informed that if she made another move.......we know this ended very badly

 

[galaxygal]

sad, I hope it was shared with the utmost sincerity in such a grave and sad situation. Is this cited in a source somewhere?

 

[Bob Saccamano]

(modsnip)

I'm in GA and hearing rumors about this one that cite what should be impeccable local sources(if they are truly coming from where they say). (modsnip)

When I first joined this page, I felt the rules were over the top restrictive. Now, I'm thankful that they seem to be just enough.

 

[Eastonwatson]

I think I may have seen one other person touch on this a bit. He's well dressed because he's coming from a colder city or state.

Or possibly is up and out of the house very early morning when it's colder..

I don't think he is wearing any clothing for disguise. He did this in broad daylight on a hiking trail with a bridge that serves as a visual crows nest of sorts.

And I believe he made no attempt to hide the body's. Why would he pile on extra clothing? This type of clothing is his every day attire.

 

[rotary_dial]

I disagree.

Rather it depends on who is trying to find you and what resources they are willing to expend to find you. The best example of this are deceased senior Al Queda operatives killed in drone strikes. Al Queda has expert cellular engineers and software engineers in their ranks. Yet, they learned the hard way that despite precautions, electronic contacts can be traced.

In this case, local, state and national level US resources would be employed to track an electronic contact. My guess is that if given the proper priority, the FBI could track an electronic contact to its source. The priority would need to be national security interest level type priority which would bring NSA's computers into play.

.

I agree, I should have changed the wording. If you are a threat to national security they will likely find you. Any method is on the table at that point and laws, rules, and regulations tend to be bent or totally disregarded at that level.

Unless they are using illegal techniques and parallel construction, for anything less than national security or terrorism you could remain fairly untraceable. IMO


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