IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #82

[mtnlites]

Sounds to me like there’s a lot of evidence, that could include dna, finger prints, dropped items, weapon type wounds, ballistics, etc. etc. that needs to be matched to a person. That’s just MOO

I agree. From what he said, I only get one person. I don't think more than one was involved anyway. It is VERY hard for two to keep quiet. And you're right about the way people phrase things. I try not to read into that, either. Around here, for instance, we use the pronoun "they" to mean both singular and plural all the time, the same way that we use "up" to mean both north and south. "I'm going up to mamaw's house," "I'm going up to Gatlinburg", "I'm going up to the school," etc. Wording matters but taking individual speech patterns as well as cultural tendencies into consideration matters, too.

 

[heartgoesout]

The "utter lack of progress" was talking about DN. I just happened to take a look at this thread again and I feel that a profile of BG would be a help if the FBI could provide us one. It certainly wouldn't hurt anything. Has anyone actually asked for a profile of BG?

I think that the person who might be responsible for the murders may have known one or both of the girls but they didn't recognize him because he was disguised so well. I think he was living near that area but may have moved away since. I'd look for someone who had crossed paths with one or both girls before..someone whom noone would recognize from the video stills or sketch. A sketch is only as good as the witness is at describing the person, and if the sketch artist is real good at sketching the likeness described.. I have read that it DOES matter who the sketch artist is. As far as voice goes..I have read where some on here wonder what BG has around his face. Possibly a voice synthesizer to disguise his voice? I think that BG knew the area around Monon High bridge well because he had gone there before the murders looking totally different.

Lastly..in the bridge photo of Abby that Libby took..Abby is carrying a handbag..the two plastic appearing straps are around HER right arm. The handbag looks on the thin & flat side. Another thing I noticed...someone took a black 'mark' and put it where Abby's hair would have been tied. To hide what Abby's hair was tied with perhaps?

I for one think that it is a good thing to go over everything...because something important to this case just might have been missed.
I hope that my ideas/thoughts and input are helpful. They are all moo of course.

I don't think so Shiressleuth..the girls were young..less apt to have much money or expensive jewelry on them. I believe that Abby did have a handbag/purse on HER RIGHT ARM in the picture of her on the bridge..and perhaps Libby had a backpack so as not to have to carry her sweatshirt(her grandmother insisted she take with her) in her hand..but I don't think it was robbery imo.

Nancy1954, is there something you are noticing about HER RIGHT ARM? You've emphasized it and wondering if I'm not catching to something?

 

[gregjrichards]

What do you think the chances are that the murderer of these girls is the same one who killed the other two in Iowa was it?

I wish we knew if Elizabeth and Lyric were murdered in Iowa by BG or a different perp. I would need to know the cause of deaths and what the crime scenes were like to make an informed opinion.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I doubt there was more than one involved. There may well be other DNA in the area from people in the area at other times. But no signs pointing to multiple suspects.
Jmo

I don't really understand how they are going to know if there is more than one perp or not and it is confusing. If there is other DNA from people in the area then how are they going to determine if it belongs to the killer (s) or not? Is that perhaps what the real problem is here and is that why they are not getting any matches or is it just that they have not encountered the killer yet for there to be a match? If he left no DNA at all, how will they ever catch him?

 

[HockeyMom330]

I wish we knew if Elizabeth and Lyric were murdered in Iowa by BG or a different perp. I would need to know the cause of deaths and what the crime scenes were like to make an informed opinion.

I don't think we will ever know the COD for the Iowa girls as too much time passed between their murder and finding their remains. It will make it hard to ever connect the cases, if in fact they are connected. When I first heard about Abby & Libby I immediately thought of the Elizabeth & Lyric case...but if LE was not able to establish a connection right away, then I doubt there is one. There are some obvious similarities, but also some differences. Different state. Different year. E&L's remains were found quite far (driving distance) from where they disappeared...A&L were found very close by the place they were last known to be alive (probably no vehicle involved). Sounds like a different guy to me, which is scary knowing there is more than one person out there capable of abducting and killing two innocent girls at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

What do you think the chances are that the murderer of these girls is the same one who killed the other two in Iowa was it?

Personal opinion only. Possible

 

[Jax49]

What do you think the chances are that the murderer of these girls is the same one who killed the other two in Iowa was it?

50/50 imho

ETA: I know that is probably higher than most people but I've had a feeling they were related since I saw the four girls' pics.

 

[Try2solve]

After following Shire's link to the Carroll County Comet, I just casually scrolled through some of their old articles. Maybe this one has already been posted, but it caught my eye. I know the headline is about the Flora police, but it sounds as if the officer is speaking in reference to the Delphi case. Am I reading that correctly? If so, that obviously lends a little more credence to the possibility that there was a social media angle, and that the girls were known to BG and had (probably unknowingly) had some form of contact with him. But then why haven't they been able to figure out who this guy is? Any thoughts?:

[FONT=&amp]Council president Josh Ayres asked if there are any safety concerns for Flora. Redmon replied, “Parents need to know where their kids are and what they are doing.” Redmon went on to explain, “if there is anything good that has come out of this, it is that kids on social media are being looked into. With social media, anyone can talk to anyone else all over the world.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]“Kids are talking to people they don’t know and some (of these people) have been sexual predators,” he said.

http://www.carrollcountycomet.com/n...ce_discuss_dangers_connected_to_social_m.html

ETA: Article dated March 8, 2017[/FONT]

Thanks so much for catching that! Very telling.

 

[carbuff]

50/50 imho

ETA: I know that is probably higher than most people but I've had a feeling they were related since I saw the four girls' pics.

Yeah, exactly. It's eerie how similar they look.

 

[Try2solve]

I agree. From what he said, I only get one person. I don't think more than one was involved anyway. It is VERY hard for two to keep quiet. And you're right about the way people phrase things. I try not to read into that, either. Around here, for instance, we use the pronoun "they" to mean both singular and plural all the time, the same way that we use "up" to mean both north and south. "I'm going up to mamaw's house," "I'm going up to Gatlinburg", "I'm going up to the school," etc. Wording matters but taking individual speech patterns as well as cultural tendencies into consideration matters, too.

JMO, but the Death Penalty is a strong motivator for criminals to keep quiet.

 

[mtnlites]

JMO, but the Death Penalty is a strong motivator for criminals to keep quiet.

My mom has worked for the department of juvenile justice for almost 25 years now and my cousin is an officer in Carroll County (he's not on the Abby/Libby case now, but he was in the beginning). Both of them talk about how hard it is for two criminals to keep a secret, especially when the pressure is on. Paranoia, jealousy, and blame start to build over time and it's very common for someone to cave and go to LE on their own, especially if they think LE is on the brink of an arrest.

Benjamin Franklin said, "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead."

 

[Jerrod]

What do you think the chances are that the murderer of these girls is the same one who killed the other two in Iowa was it?

I imagine if the FBI did an offender profile for Abby & Libby, it would resemble the one for Elizabeth & Lyric quite closely (save for the locations):

• The offender is familiar with both Meyers Lake/Angels Park in Evansdale and Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in Bremer County;
• The suspect chose Seven Bridges because he or she was familiar with the area and knew it was secluded;
• The offender blends in with and may be part of the Evansdale, Bremer and surrounding communities;
• The suspect likely used “quiet coercion” to gain the girls’ compliance into leaving Meyers Lake, using a ruse or threats of violence, and that other possible characteristics include:
• The suspect may have been experiencing stress related to legal troubles, spousal problems, employment difficulties, financial strain or mental health issues in July 2012;
• The suspect may avoid discussing the case or showing interest in the matter but is likely following developments in the media;
• The offender may have attempted to abduct children or adults in the past;
• Following the disappearance, the suspect may have altered his or her physical appearance, such as changing hair style and facial hair.

 

[terpstra1]

What do you think the chances are that the murderer of these girls is the same one who killed the other two in Iowa was it?

Possible, not probable.

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[terpstra1]

Not snarky at all. Playing devils advocate here but if LE told us he was a serial killer wouldn't the public be even more outraged over no arrest? JMO

I think they have told us he's a SK without actually saying it. At least twice they have said he's done this before and he'll do it again.

From wikipedia-
*advertiser censored*serial killer*is a person whomurders*three or more people, in two or more separate events over a period of time, for primarily psychological reasons. There are gaps of time between the killings, which may range from a few hours to many years.

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[terpstra1]

Which makes me wonder if BG is a SK and LE didn't tell us, how many other SK cases are they keeping secret? Too much to think about.

According to the FBI there are 25 to 50 serial killers at any given time in the U.S.

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[AlixVR]

Thanks so much for catching that! Very telling.

Well, it was early days in March, and maybe he was speaking generally as it was one of the areas they were looking into. The Flora Marshall echoed things that Carter (I think) said in that early press conference about knowing what your kids are up to, but spoke about it in a more detaiIed way. I just know there has been quite a bit of discussion on here about whether the girls were catfished, whether it was 100% a random crime of opportunity, or something in between. These statements, if he was indeed talking specifically about Delphi and things he knew about the case because of his involvement, at least imply that the girls were known to BG prior to that day - that either they were catfished, or had had contact with him or were stalked via SM. At least that it what it sounds like to me. MOO.

 

[Hatfield]

50/50 imho

ETA: I know that is probably higher than most people but I've had a feeling they were related since I saw the four girls' pics.

JMO
Im going with 55/45 that they are related to the same killer.

Some things made me go over the 50 percent fence. The location being close to public access woods was one of the main things. Both locations had that similarity. In Iowa the killer deposited the bodies in a place he was familiar with and likely could have spent the nights at. I feel the same way about the Indiana killer and that location.

There was also a railroad not too far from both locations. So if the perp was jumping the railroad to get to his destinations he could end up in both those places.

And the obvious fact of two girls about the same age being murdered. All is so eerily similar. I am practically at 60/40 the more I think about it.

I suspect LE immediately made this possible connection and I dont think they have ruled it out yet either.

 

[DeDee]

DeDee, could you give us a little more info on these pages you bolded. I can't find anything and would like to read the reviews you are telling about. Are they businesses, are they in Delphi, are they both facebook? Thanks!

If sleuths have done any work on their own, they'll understand why these two businesses have a bit of significance. Not saying the killer(s) work(ed) here but ...

White Co Building website:
http://www.wcgconline.net/

Vanguard
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=166759223350317

 

[DeDee]

Completely agree. Unfortunately, the days of putting blind trust in LE & the FBI
are over. Remember the days when people would actually lose their jobs for giant mistakes?

True, Try. When LE was asked how BG escaped without being seen, he told us maybe he flew. I didn't appreciate being patronized.

We are not idiots or imbeciles because we have a brain and some of us have great common sense. I simply don't believe BG flew a jet and landed on RL's horse pasture and used it for a runway when departing. Thus, the reason that no one saw BG leave.

 

[heartgoesout]

If sleuths have done any work on their own, they'll understand why these two businesses have a bit of significance. Not saying the killer(s) work(ed) here but ...

White Co Building website:
http://www.wcgconline.net/

Vanguard
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=166759223350317

Welp, I’m lost! Please endulge.