IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Shiressleuth]

And maybe there wasn't any evidence because LE obliterated it all as they parked at the cemetery.

:frown:

 

[Shiressleuth]

Latest thoughts...

BG caught a ride to the gen'l area of the bridge/walked there/was briefly staying with someone who lives somewhere around there. He carries weapons as a habit. Abuses etoh and/or illicit drugs. Has a mental illness/personality disorder. Does not work regularly, maybe does temp work or odd jobs. So on this nice Feb day he was hanging around and either saw girls getting dropped off from Sis's car or was in woods and saw them as they approached bridge. Got excited, formulated a not-well-thought-out plan to approach them. They resisted his attempt to detain them so he pulled out a weapon. Forced them "down the hill". Alarmed they complied initially but then made a run for it, bolted, all ended up crossing the creek. BG caught up to one, the other girl stopped fleeing out of concern for her friend. He detained both and maybe they thought if they feigned compliance he would let them go. Instead he viciously killed them both. He hurriedly left them, removed himself from the scene asap and ended up hitching a ride from someone to remove himself further. (Did RL unwittingly give BG a ride into the area and/or out?) (Did BG have a friend with him that day, an unwilling accomplice?)

I think this is likely except for the hitching a ride. Surely he would be soaking wet, bloody and the person giving the ride would remember? Unless they are involved in some way in the crime ?

 

[Yellow Rose]

Here's a good chart for relative sound, including silencers:

Library whisper – 30 db
Emergency vehicle siren – 115 db
Silenced .22 rifle – 116 db
Thunder – 120 db
Silenced 9mm pistol – 125 db
Dish breaking – 129 db
Jackhammer – 130 db
Silenced .223 rifle – 134 db
Silenced 12 gauge shotgun – 137 db
Jet taking off – 150 db
Non-silenced 12 gauge shotgun – 160 db
Non-silenced .223 rifle – 165 db
db = decibels

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor

IMO he used a gun to insure they followed instructions and probably a knife to murder them. I live in the country and my closest neighbor is eleven acres away. We can hear him every time he shoots.

I shoot at the range at least one weekend a month and the law enforcement personnel out there at the range tell me a silencer does not silence the "echoing" sound of the firing. In an open, uncontained area such as they were in, that silencer sound IMO would have reverberated through the hills.

Am linking the wiki info. I see you have posted info too thanks.

 

[Yellow Rose]

/https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressor





Am linking the wiki info. I see you have posted info too thanks.

Don't think he used a gun. Other people in the "park." That sound would have been reported. Silencer or not. Hopefully one day we will find out and this perp will be "extinguished." I also think it's helpful to see what similar "sound" is like in comparison with other sounds (as I showed in m prior post). And when you are out in an area like that I think the sound is going to be "enhanced."

 

[Daae]

Listen to this video you can hear DOWN THE HILL much better and background sound more defined, no overlooping https://www.facebook.com/PatMcAfeeS...fref=gs&dti=118214458837235&hc_location=group This is an interview with Carter (LE) so is allowed per rules.

You can definitely hear a sloshy/wet leaf sound. This means they were off the bridge at this point. Did the recording sequence go like this? 1. Girl talk on the bridge-> 2.Initial contact with BG on bridge -> 3.Down the hill, off the bridge 4......

 

[gregjrichards]

BG may have used a silencer if it was planned.

I thought this until I watched YouTube videos of guns with silencers and they were anything but silent. I believe he used a gun to threaten the girls but stabbed them with a knife to kill them.

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo I guess I can’t imagine the sound of gunshots would be remarkable in rural areas.

 

[terpstra1]

I don't really understand this. How do they know the difference between innocent touch DNA and perp DNA?

They can't with 100% certainty. Same with transfer DNA. It gives them a name perhaps to build on but they can't make an arrest with only touch/transfer dna.

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[Shiressleuth]

IMO he used a gun to insure they followed instructions and probably a knife to murder them. I live in the country and my closest neighbor is eleven acres away. We can hear him every time he shoots.

I thought this until I watched YouTube videos of guns with silencers and they were anything but silent. I believe he used a gun to threaten the girls but stabbed them with a knife to kill them.

The only thing about them being shot is that was perhaps one of the similarites with the TW murder in Co. That is why I haven't quite discounted it atm.
:cow:

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

They can't with 100% certainty. Same with transfer DNA. It gives them a name perhaps to build on but they can't make an arrest with only touch/transfer dna.

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Hi, terpstra,
This could explain the repeated requests from LE for that one person to step forward with information.
JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The difference is touch DNA vs. blood, semen, saliva DNA.

I probably didn't make myself clear. If no blood etc DNA and only touch DNA, how do they know it isn't the perp's touch DNA?

 

[deedee21]

Its possible no DNA was left behind.

 

[mtnlites]

I shoot at the range at least one weekend a month and the law enforcement personnel out there at the range tell me a silencer does not silence the "echoing" sound of the firing. In an open, uncontained area such as they were in, that silencer sound IMO would have reverberated through the hills.

I was going to reply and say the same thing. Live in the country with the woods behind my house. "Silencers" do not work as many people think. They absolutely can be heard in the woods with the leaves off the trees.

 

[curiousgene]

I think this is likely except for the hitching a ride. Surely he would be soaking wet, bloody and the person giving the ride would remember? Unless they are involved in some way in the crime ?

In my opinion, BG changed his clothes immediately after the crime and he took the dirty clothes with him. During the initial investigation, LE had asked if anyone had seen a duffel bag laying somewhere. But where was the duffel bag or any other bag with spare clothes when BG was walking on the bridge.

 

[Satchie]

I thought this until I watched YouTube videos of guns with silencers and they were anything but silent. I believe he used a gun to threaten the girls but stabbed them with a knife to kill them.

Except, I don't know how he would keep them both quiet. I wonder if the creek is noisy. I wonder if he knew how sound would carry in woods like that.

I know some of these cases can take years for the break police need.

With regards to DNA evidence, genetists can determine if there is a family match, as far as 3rd or 4th cousins, I think. I wonder if they've been asking for voluntary samples from the area, it could give them clues to a relative, even if the person wasn't tested.

ETA: if they haven't been collecting DNA, that could signify they don't have any.

Or was DN ruled out because DNA doesn't match?

 

[Shiressleuth]

In my opinion, BG changed his clothes immediately after the crime and he took the dirty clothes with him. During the initial investigation, LE had asked if anyone had seen a duffel bag laying somewhere. But where was the duffel bag or any other bag with spare clothes when BG was walking on the bridge.

It was suggested that he could have a small backpack on his front under his jacket and the white thing is the handle so that is possible - yet still no-one has come forward.

 

[Ember123]

I believe he used a gun to threaten the girls but stabbed them with a knife to kill them.

Agreed!

 

[Satchie]

And maybe there wasn't any evidence because LE obliterated it all as they parked at the cemetery.

I agree, the local police perhaps didn't anticipate this would be a crime, and so weren't as careful as they could have been in preventing contamination of the crime scene.

But I think it would be obvious from the remains whether they'd died where they were found, or had been moved. I also think a tracker and dog would have been able to trace backwards the route 3 people had followed the day before, or 1 person with 2 bodies.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

In my opinion, BG changed his clothes immediately after the crime and he took the dirty clothes with him. During the initial investigation, LE had asked if anyone had seen a duffel bag laying somewhere. But where was the duffel bag or any other bag with spare clothes when BG was walking on the bridge.

Hi curiousgene,
If BG had planned in advance to commit a crime and scoped out the terrain, he easily could have stashed a duffle bag or backpack before the crime in the area where the girls were found and taken it with him when he left.
JMO.