IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Satchie]

Decided to develop a sort of checklist of kinds of evidence that can lead to the identification of a suspect for cases like these, since I'm personally most interested in how crimes are solved. Can anyone add to the list?

- witnesses
- tips
- bullet identification
- unique objects left behind by perp
- fingerprints
- DNA
- video surveillance footage from the area
- perps' and/or victims' cell phone activity in the area
- items taken from victims that are later found
- tire tracks, shoe tracks
- systematically checking anyone previously suspected of SA/violence in the region.
- objects used for the crime that are found elsewhere

 

[mtnlites]

For the record, I don't believe that a gun was used to kill the girls. (Perhaps to threaten them.) My comment in reply to the one about a silencer was only to co-sign the fact that silencers, despite their name, aren't that quiet. Even though we country folk are used to the sounds of gunshots, we still hear and process them. If one resounded that day, I think one of the witnesses would've remembered it.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Decided to develop a sort of checklist of kinds of evidence that can lead to the identification of a suspect for cases like these, since I'm personally most interested in how crimes are solved. Can anyone add to the list?

- witnesses
- tips
- bullet identification
- unique objects left behind by perp
- fingerprints
- DNA
- video surveillance footage from the area
- perps' and/or victims' cell phone activity in the area
- items taken from victims that are later found
- tire tracks, shoe tracks
- systematically checking anyone previously suspected of any kind of SA in the region.

Debit/credit card activity
DV priors
Work History of SO/DV perps
SM and computer activity
Fibres
Vehicle description
Perp description

 

[newredtabby]

In my opinion, BG changed his clothes immediately after the crime and he took the dirty clothes with him. During the initial investigation, LE had asked if anyone had seen a duffel bag laying somewhere. But where was the duffel bag or any other bag with spare clothes when BG was walking on the bridge.

If BG planned this out as well as I think he did, the bag was left at the kill site. Once there, and once he did whatever he did, simple change of clothes, load everything else into the bag, and away he went.


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[Yellow Rose]

If BG planned this out as well as I think he did, the bag was left at the kill site. Once there, and once he did whatever he did, simple change of clothes, load everything else into the bag, and away he went.


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Left the bag at the kill site with all that DNA? Nope, I don't think so. Would have to totally disagree with that

 

[kkdj]

Does anyone think BG knows any of the family members? I mean, what if he is someone right under their noses and nobody suspects him at all!
Also, does anyone think he helped in the search?

 

[kkdj]

Left the bag at the kill site with all that DNA? Nope, I don't think so. Would have to totally disagree with that

I think it was meant he left the bag at the kill site he took them to, before he took them. Like he had everything prepared beforehand.

 

[newredtabby]

Left the bag at the kill site with all that DNA? Nope, I don't think so. Would have to totally disagree with that

No, he left the bag at the kill site while he went off to get his victims. Once he returned with the girls, it was there waiting for him. Obviously, he would take it with him when he left.


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[Satchie]

Debit/credit card activity
DV priors
Work History of SO/DV perps
SM and computer activity
Fibres
Vehicle description
Perp description

Thanks! I've add 'checking everyone connected to victims', that would include social media/computer, but other kinds of connections as well. I've amended to include anyone with violence priors or even suspected of it. I would include under 'systematic checking' anything that might connect a person to the crime area.

- witnesses, including sightings of potential perp or vehicle in the area
- tips (names of potential suspects)
- bullet identification
- unique objects left behind by perp
- fingerprints
- DNA
- fibres
- video surveillance footage from the area
- perps' and/or victims' cell phone activity in the area
- ATM/credit card activity in the area
- items taken from victims that are later found
- tire tracks, shoe tracks
- systematically checking everyone associated with the victims, including via social media/computer.
- systematically checking anyone previously convicted or suspected of SA/violence in the region.
- objects used for the crime that are found elsewhere

 

[Satchie]

No, he left the bag at the kill site while he went off to get his victims. Once he returned with the girls, it was there waiting for him. Obviously, he would take it with him when he left.


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Wonder whether any of the 'numerous witnesses' saw someone with a duffel bag.

 

[ReadySet]

BBM Not to add to your list, but just thoughts jumping off this: anecdotal information from those people re: habits, behaviors, and actions of all associated with them even in the most casual way. Old or new conflicts, attitudes, grudges, legal difficulties, motivations, domestic problems, changes in behavior.

Thanks! I've add 'checking everyone connected to victims', that would include social media/computer, but other kinds of connections as well. I've amended to include anyone with violence priors or even suspected of it. I would include under 'systematic checking' anything that might connect a person to the area.

- witnesses, including sightings of potential perp or vehicle in the area
- tips
- bullet identification
- unique objects left behind by perp
- fingerprints
- DNA
- fibres
- video surveillance footage from the area
- perps' and/or victims' cell phone activity in the area
- items taken from victims that are later found
- tire tracks, shoe tracks
- systematically checking everyone associated with the victims, including via social media/computer.
- systematically checking anyone previously convicted or suspected of SA/violence in the region.
- objects used for the crime that are found elsewhere

 

[Try2solve]

Does anyone think BG knows any of the family members? I mean, what if he is someone right under their noses and nobody suspects him at all!
Also, does anyone think he helped in the search?

I don't believe the families know BG directly. One of the mom's has over 800 friends on FB. The internet is saturated with weirdos looking for prey. What if BG has a type and he just came across Abby or Libby's photo.I believe they'll find a remote connection somehow. My opinion is this is all somehow internet related. I won't believe this was simply very bad luck for the girls. I also don't believe BG is so lucky with the expanse of the bridge and supposedly then walking in the forest without leaves and he gets away so easily. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. JMO

 

[SkipperKey3]

I don't believe the families know BG directly. One of the mom's has over 800 friends on FB. The internet is saturated with weirdos looking for prey. What if BG has a type and he just came across Abby or Libby's photo.I believe they'll find a remote connection somehow. My opinion is this is all somehow internet related. I won't believe this was simply very bad luck for the girls. I also don't believe BG is so lucky with the expanse of the bridge and supposedly then walking in the forest without leaves and he gets away so easily. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true. JMO

Maybe, but I still have a hard time believing it was that far planned out. There are just too many variables involved. It still seems more like a crime of opportunity to me. Of course, we really know very few details.

 

[SkipperKey3]

No, he left the bag at the kill site while he went off to get his victims. Once he returned with the girls, it was there waiting for him. Obviously, he would take it with him when he left.


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This still seems problematic to me. Did he leave it there in hopes that he might stumble across a possible victim(s)? It doesn't make a lot of sense to go off and leave a bag behind.

 

[Satchie]

BBM Not to add to your list, but just thoughts jumping off this: anecdotal information from those people re: habits, behaviors, and actions of all associated with them even in the most casual way. Old or new conflicts, attitudes, grudges, legal difficulties, motivations, domestic problems, changes in behavior.

Yes, I recall the case where the suspect was identified because she'd gotten rid of a distinctive coat similar to what was seen and widely highlighted in a video. And yet police found this out only because the victim's family recollected her wearing such a coat. The suspect's mother, and other people, such as neighbours, who must have seen her wearing it, never tipped off police.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

How can we be certain this duffle bag LE was asking about was BG’s & not Libby or Abby’s? Didn’t Abby stay overnight at Libby’s on Feb 12th? IF the duffle bag was Abby’s, that could also mean (IF there was no SA) that the UG’s found could have been from Abby’s overnight bag, IF she in fact had one with her at the trail that day? MOO


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[Satchie]

This still seems problematic to me. Did he leave it there in hopes that he might stumble across a possible victim(s)? It doesn't make a lot of sense to go off and leave a bag behind.

I think it very probable he had scouted out the area and had decided to wait for a suitable victim(s) who came down to the south end of the bridge, and to lead them to the site where he killed them..

That's what animal predators do, and hunters and fishermen. They'll wait for hours for a deer to pass, or to catch a fish. I believe BG was using similar predatory, hunting instincts and techniques. It's quite shocking to imagine that someone could treat young teenagers the same way they treat a big fish or a lion, but I believe it definitely happens.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

This still seems problematic to me. Did he leave it there in hopes that he might stumble across a possible victim(s)? It doesn't make a lot of sense to go off and leave a bag behind.

Hi SkipperKey,
Have you read anything on Israel Keyes? It would make perfect sense for BG to hide his kit and wait for a victim to come along.
JMO.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Hi SkipperKey,
Have you read anything on Israel Keyes? It would make perfect sense for BG to hide his kit and wait for a victim to come along.
JMO.

Ah, no, I'm not familiar with that case. I find it easier to believe that he could have hid his kit and waited for an opportunity than to hide his kit and waited specifically for AW&LG. It would then be both a case of premeditation and a case of opportunity. What I have trouble believing is that he specifically targeted AW&LG well ahead of time. Not that it couldn't have happened, it just seems less likely.

 

[terpstra1]

No, he left the bag at the kill site while he went off to get his victims. Once he returned with the girls, it was there waiting for him. Obviously, he would take it with him when he left.


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I think it more likely, if he did have a bag with a change of clothing, he left it in his car. I think he parked in the back of the cemetery where his car wouldn't be seen.

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