IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Shiressleuth]

JMO, but Holeman looks very uncomfortable when speaking about the creek. I don't believe they crossed the creek at all.

Not seeing that. I see no reason to think he is lying. moo

He is probably remembering the tape itself. LE have heard what comes after DTH and that is what is making him uncomfortable talking and remembering it IMO.

 

[Falling Down]

Not trying to say there is a SM connection, however, is it possible that BG knew of the girls beforehand through a mutual friend? And this mutual friend is linked to Libby/Abby through SM, not just through real life? I ask this because Libby’s Instagram (one example) was open to the public. It was/is possible to see her posts without requesting to follow her. Could BG have seen her public post that day & know where the girls were headed? Which also begs the question, can visitors to her public postings be tracked? To be clear, I’m not saying BG had ever met Libby or Abby. Just saying it’s possible he knew OF them. MOO


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IMO if this was a revenge killing, there's a possibility BG was tipped off, somehow. by a third party.

MOO

 

[heartgoesout]

Another case I followed Stephanie Roof. She was killed in the driveway of her home. There was speculation a lot of rumors around who could have done this. It seemed the neighbors knew and knew the reason as well.
No arrest...no arrest... tic toc. The public was getting restless! Then one day about a year later the arrest came. And it was exactly who the community thought it was.
Turns out Ms. Roof was shot and killed with a homemade PVC sling concoction. Which the public didn't know. LE could not find the weapon, only internet searches on how to built one. LE felt they needed to replicate the device to show to and prove to a jury a homemade device could actually kill someone. So my point here is LE usually know so much more than we do!

 

[Jax49]

IMO, if during an investigation, the public was wrong regarding a certain important fact and that helped LE to keep secret another detail only they knew,
LE would be more than happy to perpetuate the wrong story. LE doesn't call it "lying". They call it "protecting the integrity of the investigation".

I agree with the basic premise but in this case the public had not formed a firm belief that the creek was crossed, until this interview. It was an ongoing debate here on WS's.

IMHO

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo if they had a suspect and just needed someone to break an alibi...they would not want to keep receiving hundreds of useless tips at this point. It is not like they could be accused of jumping to a conclusion as they have dragged in everybody they could think of, apparently, and followed up on many hundreds of tips for a year. That would be a waste of resources, imo. Instead they would be approaching every person in any way related to the suspect, trying to get one of them to give them that extra bit of info.
Jmo

 

[Shiressleuth]

The media has been extremely compliant, has not done any investigation on their own, reported information from anonymous LE sources, etc. It is rather strange that would be the case considering the amount of press coverage the case received.

RSBM
I know you are referencing the August Holman interview but the media was credited with breaking the September Colorado story-whether they did or not I am unsure.
:cow:

 

[Falling Down]

If not a vehicle, they would’ve had to go back across the bridge.

Which would have risked somebody or some people coming up the trail from the trailhead, seeing them crossing the bridge. The bridge is approximately 850 feet long, BG probably crossed it in 4 minutes, even with the condition it's in. Now marching two juveniles at gunpoint back across the bridge would carry a lot of risks, and would probably take longer (victims scared, other issues could crop up).

Walking back across an 850 foot bridge, then across a trail on the NW side of the creek to the CS, would have been a considerable distance, more than 3 times the distance from the SE end, across the creek, to the CS. Shortest distance between two points is a straight line, and the path taken would have given BG a fair amount of cover and concealment (to use a military phrase), vs. going back across a bridge, with one victim wearing a colorful shirt, no less.

 

[BIC]

Which would have risked somebody or some people coming up the trail from the trailhead, seeing them crossing the bridge. The bridge is approximately 850 feet long, BG probably crossed it in 4 minutes, even with the condition it's in. Now marching two juveniles at gunpoint back across the bridge would carry a lot of risks, and would probably take longer (victims scared, other issues could crop up).

Walking back across an 850 foot bridge, then across a trail on the NW side of the creek to the CS, would have been a considerable distance, more than 3 times the distance from the SE end, across the creek, to the CS. Shortest distance between two points is a straight line, and the path taken would have given BG a fair amount of cover and concealment (to use a military phrase), vs. going back across a bridge, with one victim wearing a colorful shirt, no less.

Exactly.

 

[heartgoesout]

Which would have risked somebody or some people coming up the trail from the trailhead, seeing them crossing the bridge. The bridge is approximately 850 feet long, BG probably crossed it in 4 minutes, even with the condition it's in. Now marching two juveniles at gunpoint back across the bridge would carry a lot of risks, and would probably take longer (victims scared, other issues could crop up).

Walking back across an 850 foot bridge, then across a trail on the NW side of the creek to the CS, would have been a considerable distance, more than 3 times the distance from the SE end, across the creek, to the CS. Shortest distance between two points is a straight line, and the path taken would have given BG a fair amount of cover and concealment (to use a military phrase), vs. going back across a bridge, with one victim wearing a colorful shirt, no less.

Just playing devils advicate, if BG could explain why he was with the girls and the girls knew him and had no idea his intent someone who by chance saw them and then actually questioned him would have a possible reasonable explanation why he was with them and the girls could have said yes, he’s my teacher (just example!!) and the person walks away. How many people would actually question him?? People tend to mind their own business and it was a chance BG was willing to take? Again just playing devils advocate.

 

[terpstra1]

I agree. I believe their suspect has an alibi at this point and that his dna can be explained away somehow. Their pleadings are to that person or persons who can disprove the alibi.

Such as touch DNA. They can't arrest someone with just touch DNA.

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[terpstra1]

JMO, but Holeman looks very uncomfortable when speaking about the creek. I don't believe they crossed the creek at all.

Curious as to how you think they ended up at the crime scene?

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[ocgrad]

Such as touch DNA. They can't arrest someone with just touch DNA.

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They have stated that once they have the person identified they have enough evidence to convict. If they have a good suspect it seems to me they have to have probable cause to get their DNA to prove its a match. The tip from someone would give them that.

 

[Ember123]

Re:Leaks

There ARE leaks, locals that want info can find it .

However, those of us that maybe have came across a leak or two can’t put that info here.. thus that’s why you’re not hearing about it.

But, believe me there are what I think are 100% facts about this case floating around.. as well as rumors that are also probably based in facts.


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So based on whatever you have heard, do you think LE is anywhere near knowing who BG is? (Or is the scuttlebutt more about other things, not about who is BG??)

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Can the people who believe BG used a vehicle to take the girls somewhere else and then bring them back please help me wrap my head around this?

Why would BG waste time that could be used escaping and take the risk of being found with the girls after the families/LE/search parties were looking for them by returning the girls to the area of the abduction instead of leaving them somewhere else?

TIA
JMO

 

[Beth11311]

The Thanks button wasn't enough. It has been nice to see the path the thread has taken in the last several days.There has been rehashing of old thoughts but also some interesting new suggestions. Great to see some of the original contributors returning.

bbm

Yes! This this this. I’ve seen some lovely posters from the early days when I joined WS and this thread (yourself included Jax!) on here recently and it’s given me new hope. I think the content is what matters most, and we have some extremely dedicated and talented people here. I am encouraged by the line of thought and the ideas being brought to the table even if we are rehashing the old stuff. Sometimes the only way to do it is start from the beginning and hunt for what we may have missed or overlooked, fresh eyes if you will, now a year down the road.


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[Gisjoe]

IMO if this was a revenge killing, there's a possibility BG was tipped off, somehow. by a third party.

MOO

Yep! This has been in the back of my mind for a while. A third party could have easily asked the person picking the girls up if they wanted to meet up. “Sorry I can’t I gotta pick the girls up from the bridge”

Could have been something as simple as that. all my own opinion


Today is the day

 

[heartgoesout]

I too think its just that simple, there was some connection somehow with the girls. JMO!

 

[kidetect22]

Can the people who believe BG used a vehicle to take the girls somewhere else and then bring them back please help me wrap my head around this?

Why would BG waste time that could be used escaping and take the risk of being found with the girls after the families/LE/search parties were looking for them by returning the girls to the area of the abduction instead of leaving them somewhere else?

TIA
JMO

Nope can’t wrap my head around this either!!!! It didn’t happen. The girls were simple overlooked during the search the night before they were found. It happens! No vehicle, no Snapchat stalker, this was a predator having great opportunity(great for him) at the right place and time. This person was comfortable in his setting- mark my words, when BG is caught, people are going to be blown away! Just my opinion

 

[cluciano63]

No way he took them elsewhere and brought them back, jmo. Would be ridiculous imo. And to be honest, one of the girls may have outweighed him. This is partly why I believe he may have had a gun. That would be a very definite way to control anyone, certainly two young girls. It is an unfortunate image that he may have chased them across the creek. We probably will never know the details for sure as even if an arrest comes one day, I very much doubt there will be a detailed confession and no reason for deals really, since they were found.
Jmo

 

[Beth11311]

I am also majorly of the opinion that there was no transportation of the girls via car, it just doesn’t make sense and would have seriously increased the chances of BG being caught - hustling them however far out to a car vs disposing of them in the woods.
The search of the outbuildings/sheds on both RL’s property and the Mears property, was IMO, a chance to look for evidence that BG may have discarded. Perhaps bloody clothes, wet shoes, who knows (no I don’t think he discarded anything there, I just imagine that’s perhaps what they were looking for). I’m still of the opinion he hightailed it out of there pretty quickly after he killed them, but LE knows more. Or they were covering their bases. It’s just hard for me to imagine an instance in where a secondary crime scene or transporting the girls and bringing their bodies back makes any sense. If he took them in a car, why bring them back? Plenty more places to (sorry to say this) dump a body where search parties WON’T immediately be searching than the location near which they last were seen, giving him plenty of time to get far away from the area. KWIM? If he had dumped them elsewhere, we might still be sitting here wondering ‘where in the world they went and what happened’ rather than ‘who is BG’....


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