IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[newredtabby]

It's contradicting. Calling off a search to bring in dogs the next day... huh?? So obviously there was cause for concern right then and there.

They didn't have a helicopter? Or other LE to come in to help.
So someone twists an ankle...small price to pay to find to lost little girls. :banghead:

Did they not take two little girls missing serious?
I can't, I just can't. :tantrum:

Heli, quick flyby with thermal cams? Doesn't seem like too much to ask to potentially find two missing girls. What if they had indeed just been injured and died of exposure overnight? How is LE not negligent here?


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[Satchie]

I must reiterate, I am very very supportive of LE, I don't mean to criticize. I really do wish I wasn't so upset about this.
I just have a hard time with leaving any child behind.

Yes, naturally. But as I'm sure you know, there's only one person to blame, and maybe a few others who are protecting him. Everyone else is doing their best to put back to rights the terrible, deliberate wrong this one guy did.

 

[Boxer]

Heli, quick flyby with thermal cams? Doesn't seem like too much to ask to potentially find two missing girls. What if they had indeed just been injured and died of exposure overnight? How is LE not negligent here?


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National Guard and Army Camps live to use their equipment constructively - one call and you get help in a search.

 

[Satchie]

Also to point out that what police say to the public, and what they, amongst themselves, fear or suspect, are two very different things. You can't have police spokesmen revealing their every thought, just saying it all out loud:

"We haven't found these girls after a few hours of shouting and going through this relatively small wooded area, for sure they'd have heard or seen us, so we're afraid they've either drowned or been abducted/ murdered, therefore we're pulling people out of the area until daylight when we can start to search more diligently for possible remains".

They're just not going to inflict that trauma on families! They always say they don't suspect foul play, until they have proof. It's not that they're naive, they just watch what they say, to not sow panic, in particular to reassure family there's still hope.

 

[Jethro4WS]

It's contradicting. Calling off a search to bring in dogs the next day... huh?? So obviously there was cause for concern right then and there.

They didn't have a helicopter? Or other LE to come in to help.
So someone twists an ankle...small price to pay to find to lost little girls. :banghead:

Did they not take two little girls missing serious?
I can't, I just can't. :tantrum:

BBM. On the night of the search we know that Delphi, Carroll County Deputies, Department of Natural Resources personnel, Delphi Fire, and an FBI agent that lives local were out. On the following day, all of those same resources were out along with Indiana State Police, Purdue University police and likely other local agencies - I know of a few but the source would be our scanner thread so I won't mention.

As for a helicopter, not on the night of the search. Whether there was a helicopter search the following morning or not I will defer to the scanner thread.

 

[Daey34]

I hate seeing comments about how the search shouldn’t have been called off. It drives me crazy, and **I** just can’t.

As someone who’s managed SAR operations, I have personally seen a swift water medic lose his life when a search SHOULD have been called off. That night in May 2009, just like Abby & Libby’s families on February13th, his family didn’t get to see him come through the door. His kids won’t ever see him again.

You can’t make calls about SAR from the couch. MOO.

It's contradicting. Calling off a search to bring in dogs the next day... huh?? So obviously there was cause for concern right then and there.

They didn't have a helicopter? Or other LE to come in to help.
So someone twists an ankle...small price to pay to find to lost little girls. :banghead:

Did they not take two little girls missing serious?
I can't, I just can't. :tantrum:

 

[heartgoesout]

I hate seeing comments about how the search shouldn’t have been called off. It drives me crazy, and **I** just can’t.

As someone who’s managed SAR operations, I have personally seen a swift water medic lose his life when a search SHOULD have been called off. That night in May 2009, just like Abby & Libby’s families on February13th, his family didn’t get to see him come through the door. His kids won’t ever see him again.

You can’t make calls about SAR from the couch. MOO.

Like I posted, I support LE and searchers with the utmost respect. Tragedy all over, I am sorry for your friend. It is not a critisism I take lightly as I too participate in SAR.
I stand by my opinion that the search should not have been called off in THIS situation.
I truly am sorry if that upsets you. And I understand why. I know my opinion is strong, but it comes from the heart.
But, I cannot understand leaving when two young children weren't coming with you.
We can respectfully agree to disagree : )

 

[Area52]

I seem to recall an Amber Alert or something similar going on nearby the evening of the 13th, which kind of left LE spread a little thin that night. Does anyone else recall this incident ?

 

[Boxer]

BBM. On the night of the search we know that Delphi, Carroll County Deputies, Department of Natural Resources personnel, Delphi Fire, and an FBI agent that lives local were out. On the following day, all of those same resources were out along with Indiana State Police, Purdue University police and likely other local agencies - I know of a few but the source would be our scanner thread so I won't mention.

As for a helicopter, not on the night of the search. Whether there was a helicopter search the following morning or not I will defer to the scanner thread.

Looked like the only helicopter in the sky was a news chopper.

 

[Daey34]

I totally understand your point too. If I were a mother whose child was missing, I know I wouldn’t care at all if a searcher were injured. But that said, if I were a mother of a searcher, I’d feel the same. So I guess it’s how the public had been questioning that call since day one that’s so offensive (not you per se at all. Sorry if i seem that way) because the public isn’t in either position.

Like I posted, I support LE and searchers with the utmost respect. Tragedy all over, I am sorry for your friend. It is not a critisism I take lightly as I too participate in SAR.
I stand by my opinion that the search should not have been called off in THIS situation.
I truly am sorry if that upsets you. And I understand why. I know my opinion is strong, but it comes from the heart.
But, I cannot understand leaving when two young children weren't coming with you.
We can respectfully agree to disagree : )

 

[WestieMom]

If you read the article below, there is a comment under the article of a local speaking about "camping" near the Monon Trail - there could've been a small camp sight...

one-trail-blazing-small-town

There are videos online of people camping near there and dredging for gold. Just west (I think) of the bridge.


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[Jax49]

I seem to recall an Amber Alert or something similar going on nearby the evening of the 13th, which kind of left LE spread a little thin that night. Does anyone else recall this incident ?

I found this reference by kc1023 to another Amber Alert back in thread 85. Not sure if LE was spread thin but the post gives a feel for that night.

(below snipped from a longer post)

"Last year on the same day on Feb 13 there was an AmberAlert issued in Indiana for a teenage girl from Gary (or some such place in Northern Indiana). Her mother had been murdered and she was missing. I feel it later turned out that she was involved in the murder and folks here even speculated that this was a gross mis-use of the Amber Alertcode.

Anyway, the Amber Alert was out about the other girl then that afternoon the news started reporting that there were 2 girls missing from a trail in Delphi. Later it was on the news that they were stopping the search. This did not alarm me at all as the "feeling" that afternoon had been that the girls had wandered off or were lost but would be fine and they would find them cold and hungry in the morning but fine. Plus there was the Gary girl in "real danger" or so we thought."

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-82&p=13934147#post13934147

 

[Jabarn]

So if this guy is transient killer, used to living off the grid, and disanfranchized from his family, would it be helpful to look at possible priors? Some of these crimes have likely been sorted out, not sure, but these I culled from a simple Google search on trail attacks in Indiana. All of these involved people who got away (as far as I know) and it is scary to think how crimes like this happen all the time.

There has to be a link to something before. I also think this may be a multi-state offender.

Bedford police look for man suspected of attack on Milwaukee Trail

https://www.wthr.com/article/bedford-police-look-for-man-suspected-of-attack-on-milwaukee-trail

Police continue investigation into Bloomington trail attack

https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/n...cle_cb90c5d4-06c8-5e16-a747-70e2c0e58c57.html

Police call riverfront trail attack 'rare occurrence'

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...l-attack-rare-occurrence/stories/200905220148

Two men wanted for questioning in attack on woman on New Lenox trail


http://abc7chicago.com/news/2-men-sought-in-new-lenox-trail-attack/2062249/


Sexual Assault Reported At Brum Woods Trails

http://eaglecountryonline.com/local-article/sexual-assault-reported-at-brum-woods-trails

ETA: the New Lenox case with two men was solved.

 

[kat913]

So if this guy is transient killer, used to living off the grid, and disanfranchized from his family, would it be helpful to look at possible priors? Some of these crimes have likely been sorted out, not sure, but these I culled from a simple Google search on trail attacks in Indiana. All of these involved people who got away (as far as I know) and it is scary to think how crimes like this happen all the time.

There has to be a link to something before. I also think this may be a multi-state offender.

Bedford police look for man suspected of attack on Milwaukee Trail

https://www.wthr.com/article/bedford-police-look-for-man-suspected-of-attack-on-milwaukee-trail

Police continue investigation into Bloomington trail attack

https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/n...cle_cb90c5d4-06c8-5e16-a747-70e2c0e58c57.html

Police call riverfront trail attack 'rare occurrence'

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...l-attack-rare-occurrence/stories/200905220148

Two men wanted for questioning in attack on woman on New Lenox trail


http://abc7chicago.com/news/2-men-sought-in-new-lenox-trail-attack/2062249/


Sexual Assault Reported At Brum Woods Trails

http://eaglecountryonline.com/local-article/sexual-assault-reported-at-brum-woods-trails

Great info Jabarn....but they all got away! Wonder if they have looked at these....thanks for digging!!

 

[Elle*Bee]

I hate seeing comments about how the search shouldn’t have been called off. It drives me crazy, and **I** just can’t.

As someone who’s managed SAR operations, I have personally seen a swift water medic lose his life when a search SHOULD have been called off. That night in May 2009, just like Abby & Libby’s families on February13th, his family didn’t get to see him come through the door. His kids won’t ever see him again.

You can’t make calls about SAR from the couch. MOO.

I cannot thank this enough. Hindsight is always 20/20. And it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. Would the girls have been found sooner if the search hadn’t been called off? Could they have been saved or was it already too late by the time the search began? Would searchers looking for two young girls inadvertently trampled and destroyed crucial evidence? Too many unknowns.

 

[SkipperKey3]

I cannot thank this enough. Hindsight is always 20/20. And it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. Would the girls have been found sooner if the search hadn’t been called off? Could they have been saved or was it already too late by the time the search began? Would searchers looking for two young girls inadvertently trampled and destroyed crucial evidence? Too many unknowns.

Too many unknowns about this whole thing. And it just seems like a lingering headache that just won't go away, when day after day goes by and little to nothing new is reported.

 

[Satchie]

So if this guy is transient killer, used to living off the grid, and disanfranchized from his family, would it be helpful to look at possible priors? Some of these crimes have likely been sorted out, not sure, but these I culled from a simple Google search on trail attacks in Indiana. All of these involved people who got away (as far as I know) and it is scary to think how crimes like this happen all the time.

There has to be a link to something before. I also think this may be a multi-state offender.

Bedford police look for man suspected of attack on Milwaukee Trail

https://www.wthr.com/article/bedford-police-look-for-man-suspected-of-attack-on-milwaukee-trail

RSBM

Good find! This one in Bedford seems potentially related, the man was reported to have had a gun and a rope, Bedford is a small town, and the trail is a repurposed railroad that goes through some empty wooded areas.

It happened after A&L, just last November. The guy was reportedly wearing a mask.

The MO of the others is quite different, I think.

 

[Rott Mom]

There have been many suspects identified by their gait. I tried to post a link, but my computer is acting up
tonight. Just Google it - Which leads me to believe that LE, if they have BG's gait, must release more
video to the public.
RIP Abby & Libby...Gone Too Soon

 

[Falling Down]

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/timelin...iberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/


Their disappearance was national news on 2/13 -
I remember hearing the news report that the police called off the search for the night and had a very negative reaction...
Then, because I support LE and appreciate the difficult job they do, I though possibly they got a ransom note or they wanted to send a trick message to a kidnapper that they had a safe window to try and flee...anything but what apparently was real, that it was dark and time to go home!

Darkness? Are the police not in possession of basic large campsite flashlights and Police or Road crew floodlights.
Leazenby can try to rationalize his actions after the fact, but he chose to close down the official search - and then to justify said that they suspected no foul play.
He was probably the only one in the USA that did not. Family and Citizens searched through the night.

It wasn't national news that day, the search started around 6:30 or so, and was suspended later that evening. The biggest statewide news story that evening was the Amber Alert out of Gary.

 

[Falling Down]

Unrelated (surely) but we've pondered here before if BG was perhaps hopping a train and if that was possible, etc. and I just saw this so, yeah, people do still hop trains so that's still a thing apparently.

Coincidentally, the train company involved here is CSX which I believe also own or owned the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

Again, not related but just adding for the train info. MOO

Person hopping train dies after falling onto tracks on Indy's west side


https://www.theindychannel.com/news...-after-falling-onto-tracks-on-indys-west-side

Norfolk Southern has a busy line through Delphi, and a spur off of it goes to a grain elevator/terminal just off of IN 25 on C.R 300, near the trail.

CSX may still own the Monon High Bridge,