IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 - #3

[heartgoesout]

lol lol lol I don't play one either.
I do know that each state varies with Indiana having it's own take on murder charges. I'm trying to read up.
In the state my uncle was murdered I can tell you that two men stalked him for hours. Following him from the ATM to a gas station, restaurant, and then home. The driver of the car, who did not get out for the actual attempted mugging, but was aware of the sawed off shot gun in the car, pleaded guilty to robbery while the actual person that pulled the trigger was charged with the murder in the first degree. Driver got 12 years, will serve about 8 and the actual murderer received an original sentence of life WOP.
On a side note, the driver was the "follower" and seemed a bit slow to me during the hearings. This came up a few posts ago.

Anyway, I'm wondering how two people can be charged with one act? Does Indiana define an accomplice with murder too?

 

[DeDee]

BBM for focus.

Not actually.

From a year ago:

Violent Crime Drops to Lowest Level Since 1978

http://time.com/3577026/crime-rates-drop-1970s/


FBI report: Violent crime down in U.S.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/28/politics/fbi-crime-statistics-report-2014/

The crime rate is actually going down. I know it's OT but it helps me to think about this while trying to process this vicious, awful, horrifying, senseless, I don't have enough bad words crime. I know whatever it is it's too high and Amanda should still be with her husband and child.

Violent U.S. crime drops again, reaches 1970s level: FBI

I wonder if the connectivity we've gained in recent years makes it seem like it's higher because we're more aware of it? Twenty-four hour news cycles and the internet means everything is out there. JMO

(Just noticed Izzy and I posted at the same time.)

Aug 27, 2015
Why L.A.'s crime rise is no surprise

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-domanick-los-angeles-rising-crime-20150827-story.html

Aug 31, 2015
Murder Rates Rising Sharply in Many U.S. Cities

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us/murder-rates-rising-sharply-in-many-us-cities.html

Sept 5, 2015
Hennepin County sees violent crime rise more in suburbs than in Minneapolis

http://www.startribune.com/violent-crime-up-more-in-suburbs-than-in-minneapolis/324574121/

Oct 13, 2015
Rahm Emanuel Blames Chicago Crime Increase On Backlash Against Police Brutality

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ago-police-brutality_561d491fe4b050c6c4a30548

Oct 19, 2015
Sacramento police chief pledges to address crime increase

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article40354707.html

Oct 23, 2015
F.B.I. Chief Links Scrutiny of Police With Rise in Violent Crime

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/24/u...f-police-with-rise-in-violent-crime.html?_r=0

Oct 26, 2015
FBI Director Doubles Down On Linking Scrutiny Of Police With Rise In Violent Crime

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-scrutiny-of-police-with-rise-in-violent-cri

Nov 23, 2015
New DPS stats show increase in city’s violent crime

http://wishtv.com/2015/11/23/new-dps-stats-show-increase-in-citys-violent-crime/

Nov 23, 2015
New DPS stats show increase in city’s violent crime

"INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Amanda Blackburn’s is one of 134 murders in Indianapolis so far this year.
That number is up six percent over this time last year, according to new Department of Public Safety crime numbers released Monday."
http://wishtv.com/2015/11/23/new-dps-stats-show-increase-in-citys-violent-crime/

 

[heidisams]

lol lol lol I don't play one either.
I do know that each state varies with Indiana having it's own take on murder charges. I'm trying to read up.
In the state my uncle was murdered I can tell you that two men stalked him for hours. Following him from the ATM to a gas station, restaurant, and then home. The driver of the car, who did not get out for the actual attempted mugging, but was aware of the sawed off shot gun in the car, pleaded guilty to robbery while the actual person that pulled the trigger was charged with the murder in the first degree. Driver got 12 years, will serve about 8 and the actual murderer received an original sentence of life WOP.
On a side note, the driver was the "follower" and seemed a bit slow to me during the hearings. This came up a few posts ago.

Anyway, I'm wondering how two people can be charged with one act? Does Indiana define an accomplice with murder too?

Indiana, felony murder code 35-42-1-1(2)

-----------------

This article explains it well... A high profile case here in indiana, where a group of teens broke in to someone's house, and the homeowner shot and killed one of the teens, who were unarmed. The surviving teens were charged with felony murder, the same charges Watson is charged with...

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/26/felony-murder-teenager-55-years-jail-indiana

Excerpt:

In Indiana the wording of the felony murder law is more nuanced than those of the other 11 states. It says that a “person who kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit … burglary … commits murder, a felony.”

-----------------------
Basically, the idea is that you can be guilty of murder even if you didn’t intend to kill the person if you kill them while you were intentionally committing another felony. Indiana’s felony murder statute is set forth at IC 35-42-1-1(2):

A person who kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human trafficking, sexual trafficking of a minor, or carjacking commits murder, a felony.

http://www.masson.us/blog/felony-murder/

All jmo.

 

[heartgoesout]

Indiana, felony murder code 35-42-1-1(2)

-----------------

Basically, the idea is that you can be guilty of murder even if you didn’t intend to kill the person if you kill them while you were intentionally committing another felony. Indiana’s felony murder statute is set forth at IC 35-42-1-1(2):

A person who kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human trafficking, sexual trafficking of a minor, or carjacking commits murder, a felony.

http://www.masson.us/blog/felony-murder/

All jmo.

Right, but only Taylor commuted the actual act of murder. In this case during a burglary which in Indiana is a mitigating factor. The other person claims to not have been present. He would plead guilty to burglary or even an accessory after the fact but not the actual act of murder.

 

[Backwoods]

Right, but only Taylor commuted the actual act of murder. In this case during a burglary which in Indiana is a mitigating factor. The other person claims to not have been present. He would plead guilty to burglary or even an accessory after the fact but not the actual act of murder.

I think you probably mean aggravating rather than mitigating...?

Can't recall the technical/legal term(s) for it, but I believe many states have laws that make any party to another felony which also results in murder eligible to be charged with the murder, at least under certain conditions. I think you get into who is a principal or an accomplice and who is an accessory, etc.

If the story is true that Taylor said he would kill Amanda and no one tried to prevent it ... well, that could come into play, I'd think.

Wikipedia, but some interesting reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

Also interesting, not sure how up to date, however:

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/indiana-law/indiana-murder-laws.html

 

[heartgoesout]

Thanks for searching. I still read it differently but I'm going to keep researching when I get some time.
Ps I know it as aggravating circumstances the article referred to it as mitigating. So I went with that. Lol

 

[MaxManning]

Aug 27, 2015
Why L.A.'s crime rise is no surprise

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-domanick-los-angeles-rising-crime-20150827-story.html

Aug 31, 2015
Murder Rates Rising Sharply in Many U.S. Cities

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us/murder-rates-rising-sharply-in-many-us-cities.html

Sept 5, 2015
Hennepin County sees violent crime rise more in suburbs than in Minneapolis

http://www.startribune.com/violent-crime-up-more-in-suburbs-than-in-minneapolis/324574121/

Oct 13, 2015
Rahm Emanuel Blames Chicago Crime Increase On Backlash Against Police Brutality

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ago-police-brutality_561d491fe4b050c6c4a30548

Oct 19, 2015
Sacramento police chief pledges to address crime increase

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article40354707.html

Oct 23, 2015
F.B.I. Chief Links Scrutiny of Police With Rise in Violent Crime

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/24/u...f-police-with-rise-in-violent-crime.html?_r=0

Oct 26, 2015
FBI Director Doubles Down On Linking Scrutiny Of Police With Rise In Violent Crime

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...g-scrutiny-of-police-with-rise-in-violent-cri

Nov 23, 2015
New DPS stats show increase in city’s violent crime

http://wishtv.com/2015/11/23/new-dps-stats-show-increase-in-citys-violent-crime/

Nov 23, 2015
New DPS stats show increase in city’s violent crime

"INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Amanda Blackburn’s is one of 134 murders in Indianapolis so far this year.
That number is up six percent over this time last year, according to new Department of Public Safety crime numbers released Monday."
http://wishtv.com/2015/11/23/new-dps-stats-show-increase-in-citys-violent-crime/

Poverty and Extreme Poverty.


South Side of Chicago is an example. Such a large percent of violent crime is gang-related. Gangs are most common in poverty stricken areas.


imo we have a growing poverty problem and it's not an easy thing to solve, because it perpetuates when children grow up in gang infested environment. The photos we looked at for this very case show a lifestyle that is so foreign to someone living above the poverty line. If your parents don't care about education or making an honest living, the probability of the child doing so are slim. Now it's so bad that even kids that might think they want that, have to survive and beat all kinds of odds to achieve it. It's certainly been done and there are sparkling examples, but they don't often occur in a gang based lifestyle.

Maybe not the right place for a full blown discussion on this, but not hard to find the correlation between poverty/extreme poverty and violent crime.

 

[heidisams]

Right, but only Taylor commuted the actual act of murder. In this case during a burglary which in Indiana is a mitigating factor. The other person claims to not have been present. He would plead guilty to burglary or even an accessory after the fact but not the actual act of murder.

Perhaps the prosecutor, who knows all the facts of the case, didn't feel he deserved any mercy and believed he was fully engaged in the crime when the two men entered the house. Then one left while the other stayed with the victim, they were working together to gain access to her bank account. She died in the process...

All jmo.

 

[bessie]

Right, but only Taylor commuted the actual act of murder. In this case during a burglary which in Indiana is a mitigating factor. The other person claims to not have been present. He would plead guilty to burglary or even an accessory after the fact but not the actual act of murder.

Taylor and Watson both entered the home with the intent to commit a burglary, which turned into a robbery when they used, or threatened to use, force to take AB's property. During the course of the events, Amanda was shot and killed. Therefore, Watson can be charged with murder based on probable cause.

It will be up to his attorney to make the legal arguments to convince a jury he's not guilty under the law. That's if he goes to trial. His attorney can also work to have his charges reduced in exchange for a guilty plea.

JMO

 

[Sulamith]

I am wondering that since our current penalty system is broken and obviously does not deter crime which is just getting worse by the day, then, perhaps we should go back to the days of public hang 'em high. Screw all the appeal processes. You brutalize then murder a lady, who is with child, who works to better her community, you take away a man's best friend and worship partner, you prevent a young baby boy from growing up without his mother's love and affection then guillotine it is. We need to start lining them up. Next!

I do not agree that crime is getting worse by the day.

If you want to go back to the days of public hanging/ guillotine may I suggest to you the Executed Today website. I would never want to go back to those days. MOO I hate murderers, druggies and all that scum but there are too many corrupt public defenders and judges IMO and in some cases, the appeals process exonerates the innocents accused of a crime.

http://www.executedtoday.com/

 

[Sonya610]

I keep thinking about the other home invasion where they came in and stole the woman's cell phone right off her own bed where she was sleeping and she never realized at the time that anyone was there. Shudder.

That just shows sometimes it is the luck of the draw and these kind of criminals can hit anywhere at anytime.

Yeah that reminded me of the Manson Family and their creepy-crawly game (crawling around on the floor getting as close to the sleeping victims as possible while robbing the house).

That is one thing that could never happen in my house. I sleep with 5 rescue dogs so there is no possibility of some freak creeping into the bedroom at night.

Others kept talking about the dog and the press conference. I wonder if Converse brought it up because the poor older dog was living in the yard and desperate for attention, if the dog had been allowed to live in the house with the family would that have prevented this crime? The photo of the dog showed a dish of food/water in the yard, and the dog does not seem to be in any family photos with the baby.

I can't imagine misguided youths of this type entering the house if they saw that the dog was inside, and if they entered and THEN saw the dog they would have shot the poor animal first, they surely wouldn't have wandered around the house robbing and raping while ignoring the animal.

 

[TTF14]

Yeah that reminded me of the Manson Family and their creepy-crawly game (crawling around on the floor getting as close to the sleeping victims as possible while robbing the house).

That is one thing that could never happen in my house. I sleep with 5 rescue dogs so there is no possibility of some freak creeping into the bedroom at night.

Others kept talking about the dog and the press conference. I wonder if Converse brought it up because the poor older dog was living in the yard and desperate for attention, if the dog had been allowed to live in the house with the family would that have prevented this crime? The photo of the dog showed a dish of food/water in the yard, and the dog does not seem to be in any family photos with the baby.

I can't imagine misguided youths of this type entering the house if they saw that the dog was inside, and if they entered and THEN saw the dog they would have shot the poor animal first, they surely wouldn't have wandered around the house robbing and raping while ignoring the animal.

I don't think we can assume the dog was kept outside all the time just based on a photo of food and water in the yard. Maybe he hangs out there during the day (fenced yard? invisible fence?) sometimes, who knows. What I do know is that I'm now super paranoid about letting my dog out when it's dark out! I mean, I leave the door open/unlocked while he's doing his business and do not stand there with a loaded gun. He's not of a "guard dog" breed either. This case really has me thinking about safety in my own home.

 

[Sonya610]

What I do know is that I'm now super paranoid about letting my dog out when it's dark out! I mean, I leave the door open/unlocked while he's doing his business and do not stand there with a loaded gun. He's not of a "guard dog" breed either. This case really has me thinking about safety in my own home.

I don't understand what you mean, you worry about someone hurting your dog or walking in the unlocked door? If you are worried about your dog you might want to get a $6 spotlit light for his collar, just squeeze it before he goes out and you can see the light/dog bouncing around the yard in the dark.

 

[AnaTeresa]

RC and Baptist teachings are vastly different though, as I'm sure you already know In Protestantism, there is a very WIDE array of teachings & beliefs. Even among the professing Baptist denoms - Southern, Indy, Calvinistic and non-affiliated.

The only reason it even matters for anyone to understand that, is to understand where DB may stand on the DP in his poor wife's brutal murder case.

BBM. Read this first as "demons" as I was scrolling through and I was like, oooh boy, bessie is going to have to be cleaning up a religious war in this thread.

I think I need another cup of coffee before I keep reading! :coffeecup:

 

[Sonya610]

I don't think we can assume the dog was kept outside all the time just based on a photo of food and water in the yard. Maybe he hangs out there during the day (fenced yard? invisible fence?) sometimes, who knows. What I do know is that I'm now super paranoid about letting my dog out when it's dark out! I mean, I leave the door open/unlocked while he's doing his business and do not stand there with a loaded gun. He's not of a "guard dog" breed either. This case really has me thinking about safety in my own home.

Personally I believe the dog was kept outside. The crime happened early in the morning, I doubt if the dog was on a potty break when this all went down.

In addition why was the dog there visiting with the police during the investigation? Was the animal left in the yard alone while the police cordoned off the house for days? If the dog was part of the family that wouldn't have happened, the dog would have gone to stay with the family (and if the police wanted to swab for DNA they could have done it and let the dog go).

I sure as heck would never leave one of my dogs alone at a crime scene (or with the police unless they had a court order).

 

[AnaTeresa]

Personally I believe the dog was kept outside. The crime happened early in the morning, I doubt if the dog was on a potty break when this all went down.

In addition why was the dog there visiting with the police during the investigation? Was the animal left in the yard alone while the police cordoned off the house for days? If the dog was part of the family that wouldn't have happened, the dog would have gone to stay with the family (and if the police wanted to swab for DNA they could have done it and let the dog go).

I sure as heck would never leave one of my dogs alone at a crime scene (or with the police unless they had a court order).

Actually, I have known a few cases that, after police arrive to a crime scene, they make arrangements for animal control to take the dog for a few days while things are investigated. Not sure if that's the norm everywhere, but it's not uncommon even for routine suicide investigations in a home to have the animal held for a few days while they check everything out. The owner's feelings have no part in it.

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM. Read this first as "demons" as I was scrolling through and I was like, oooh boy, bessie is going to have to be cleaning up a religious war in this thread.

I think I need another cup of coffee before I keep reading! :coffeecup:

I guess I should have spelled it accurately but just for the record, I always type it that way and even I sometimes read it as "demons".

 

[TTF14]

I don't understand what you mean, you worry about someone hurting your dog or walking in the unlocked door? If you are worried about your dog you might want to get a $6 spotlit light for his collar, just squeeze it before he goes out and you can see the light/dog bouncing around the yard in the dark.

I meant walking in the unlocked door. I get up very early and let him out while it's still dark out. (And his last time out at night is obviously in the dark, also).

 

[Sonya610]

Not sure if that's the norm everywhere, but it's not uncommon even for routine suicide investigations in a home to have the animal held for a few days while they check everything out. The owner's feelings have no part in it.

Once the crime scene is sealed then they wouldn't let the owner take objects or pets away but before that point? I suspect it has a lot to do with whether the owner asks/tries to retrieve their dog or whether they just leave and let the police sort it out especially if the dog was locked in the backyard when the crime occurred inside the house.

 

[Ontario Mom]

OH...I was thinking the woman in the PC was a different woman than the sister. Ok, so that makes some sense. But wouldn't that mean that AB is the sister's husband/boyfriend/live in. How ironic.:gaah:

This sister and the woman in the PC can't be the same person. The PC states Watson was sleeping on a crate on the floor, the sister said he was sleeping on her couch.

So, I guess my question stands...can the sister be charged with impeding the investigation?

You're mixing up criminals. According to the PC it was Taylor allegedly sleeping on a pallet at the house on Meridian, not Watson. bottom of pg. 21/top of pg. 22

"Hess tracked the number to 1451 S. Meridian St. Larry Taylor answered the door. He explained he didn't live there but he was sleeping on a pallet on the floor."