IN - Couple charged with abandonment of adopted child after legally changing her age, Sept 2019

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@Linda7NJ I would love to hear your perspective on is the following:

1. How is it that an adult Ukrainian scam artist who came here as an adult or older teen has no accent and can't speak Ukrainian?

Why would she be accent free if she came here at age 18?

2. Or do you think she's been here for years and somehow got involved with an adoption agency faking that she's a kid so she could for some reason live with a family as a child?

3. If so, wouldn't her passport show when she came or do you think she has a hidden American identity and used a different passport to go to the Ukraine and pretend to come back as an adult?

4. And why would a sophisticated adult scam artist cunning enough to fake her identity, falsify adoption records, travel back and forth to the Ukraine and fool an adoption agency need to live with random people and demand they care for her? Couldn't she bilk people for money on a crowd sourcing network or via internet sob stories? She's supposedly able-bodied and self-sufficient enough to live entirely on her own. Why would she need to be involved in an intricate plan to make people take her into their home as a child? I don't understand the purpose. Can you explain?

Is she getting adoption agency kickbacks? If so, why not just disappear after awhile after getting the funds? Why smear bodily fluids on walls and openly try to kill the family?

How does any of this make sense?

Where is her accent?
Where is her passport showing she travelled back and forth to the Ukraine years ago?
Where is evidence of the life insurance policies she took out on the Barrett's?
Her secret bank account holding kick back monies from a fake adoption?

How the heck is any of this narrative logical? It sounds like a movie.
 
"Natalia’s “miraculous recovery” lends credence IMO that Natalia fooled a lot of people. That’s what psychopaths do."

She could have stayed a minor and still had a dx that could have gotten her treatment and kept her within the juvenile system. And then, graduated to an adult dx when she was 18.

Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) and psychosis are two very different diagnoses. ASPD's precursor in childhood happens to be Conduct Disorder (CD). CD has a component of aggressiveness and harming others. ADHD can also be seen in children with CD. Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) is similar to CD except you generally don't see children with ODD exhibit aggression to humans or animals or be as anti-social. Some with ODD can be elevated to CD is the behaviors escalate. The dx changes in adulthood to ASPD. Psychopath is not a DSM term in reality.
 
@Linda7NJ I would love to hear your perspective on is the following:

1. How is it that an adult Ukrainian scam artist who came here as an adult or older teen has no accent and can't speak Ukrainian?

Why would she be accent free if she came here at age 18?

2. Or do you think she's been here for years and somehow got involved with an adoption agency faking that she's a kid so she could for some reason live with a family as a child?

3. If so, wouldn't her passport show when she came or do you think she has a hidden American identity and used a different passport to go to the Ukraine and pretend to come back as an adult?

4. And why would a sophisticated adult scam artist cunning enough to fake her identity, falsify adoption records, travel back and forth to the Ukraine and fool an adoption agency need to live with random people and demand they care for her? Couldn't she bilk people for money on a crowd sourcing network or via internet sob stories? She's supposedly able-bodied and self-sufficient enough to live entirely on her own. Why would she need to be involved in an intricate plan to make people take her into their home as a child? I don't understand the purpose. Can you explain?

Is she getting adoption agency kickbacks? If so, why not just disappear after awhile after getting the funds? Why smear bodily fluids on walls and openly try to kill the family?

How does any of this make sense?

Where is her accent?
Where is her passport showing she travelled back and forth to the Ukraine years ago?
Where is evidence of the life insurance policies she took out on the Barrett's?
Her secret bank account holding kick back monies from a fake adoption?

How the heck is any of this narrative logical? It sounds like a movie.

Or....in the Ukraine orphanage they back dated her birthdate because it’s far easier to adopt out a younger child, Natalia would know that.

According the “birth mother” they told her for thousands of dollars an American family could make her normal with surgery...

So....we have a motive to get everyone on the same page over in the Ukraine.
 
"Natalia’s “miraculous recovery” lends credence IMO that Natalia fooled a lot of people. That’s what psychopaths do."

She could have stayed a minor and still had a dx that could have gotten her treatment and kept her within the juvenile system. And then, graduated to an adult dx when she was 18.

Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) and psychosis are two very different diagnoses. ASPD's precursor in childhood happens to be Conduct Disorder (CD). CD has a component of aggressiveness and harming others. ADHD can also be seen in children with CD. Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) is similar to CD except you generally don't see children with ODD exhibit aggression to humans or animals or be as anti-social. Some with ODD can be elevated to CD is the behaviors escalate. The dx changes in adulthood to ASPD. Psychopath is not a DSM term in reality.
Why do you keep talking about psychosis?
I never said a single word about psychosis
 
Yes. And since then she hasn't been. Nor has she acquired a criminal record. Again, the childhood diagnoses that can manifest in the behaviors Kristine described can be successfully treated or managed and kids can actually outgrow them in some cases.

You can't outgrow or successfully treat anti-social personality disorder. So her past treatment and apparent stability since going to a new family support her having been a child with the Barrett's. Not a 20 year old.
If you are correct - you are correct & I am wrong.
If I am correct, she is a psychopath.
 
"Natalia’s “miraculous recovery” lends credence IMO that Natalia fooled a lot of people. That’s what psychopaths do."

She could have stayed a minor and still had a dx that could have gotten her treatment and kept her within the juvenile system. And then, graduated to an adult dx when she was 18.

Anti-Social Personality Disorder (ASPD) and psychosis are two very different diagnoses. ASPD's precursor in childhood happens to be Conduct Disorder (CD). CD has a component of aggressiveness and harming others. ADHD can also be seen in children with CD. Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) is similar to CD except you generally don't see children with ODD exhibit aggression to humans or animals or be as anti-social. Some with ODD can be elevated to CD is the behaviors escalate. The dx changes in adulthood to ASPD. Psychopath is not a DSM term in reality.
I’m well aware “psychopathy” isn’t in the billing bible.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist nor does it mean there aren’t child psychopaths
 
Or....in the Ukraine orphanage they back dated her birthdate because it’s far easier to adopt out a younger child, Natalia would know that.

According the “birth mother” they told her for thousands of dollars an American family could make her normal with surgery...

So....we have a motive to get everyone on the same page over in the Ukraine.

Okay. Fair. So can you answer the rest?

1. Where is her accent? She came here as an adult according to you and the Barretts. I do not know anyone who came here as an older teen or adult who lost their accent. The very thing the Barrett's use to claim she is a scammer is the very thing IMO that proves she's not.

2. And if she was sold are you saying she's the innocent victim of a fraud or is she in on it?

3. If she's the innocent victim of a fraud, why are the Barrett's saying she's an adult scam artist? Why would she play along and hide her menstrual cycle and pretend to be a little girl? What's the point of that?

4. If she's in on it, what's the benefit to her? I go back to the original questions. Why smear bodily fluids on the wall and openly try to kill them? Where's evidence of payment to her? A kickback? Why stay with them for two years after receiving a kick back? Why go through this whole charade at all? Why not invest in an easier scam?

I'm trying to use logic here. Help me out.
 
If you are correct - you are correct & I am wrong.
If I am correct, she is a psychopath.

But I think you're going in circles without answering the questions. If she's a cunning little psychopath, what was the purpose of smearing bodily fluids on the walls and trying to kill the Barrett's? What was the purpose in faking her age? What benefit was she getting though that? Doesn't acting murderously and smearing bodily fluids defeat the purpose of whatever cunningly masterful benefit she would be getting living with this family?

And what is the purpose now of letting the supposed baby-collecting, scamming Mann family take her social security? How does that benefit the little psychopath? Why not just do online scans of some sort and live with a boyfriend or whatever?

And how has she been able to apparently evidence total stability in the last almost six years if she's a psychopath? No criminal record. No mention of hospitalizations. The only thing I see on their Facebook is celebration when Natalia was able to get special shoes at some point. Sounds like a real high life for the psychopathic scammer living with people who work blue colllar jobs and have a passel of children and a life immersed in religion per their Facebook. What is she secretly planning for six years as she pretends to be a minor?

A person that cunning and manipulative and supposedly totally capable of living alone could easily live with a roantic partner and bilk people out of their savings online. At the very least you'd think she'd pick people with money to live with and not people who appear to work at fast food restaurants and praise Jesus all the time. Can you explain this?
 
Okay. Fair. So can you answer the rest?

1. Where is her accent? She came here as an adult according to you and the Barretts. I do not know anyone who came here as an older teen or adult who lost their accent. The very thing the Barrett's use to claim she is a scammer is the very thing IMO that proves she's not.

2. And if she was sold are you saying she's the innocent victim of a fraud or is she in on it?

3. If she's the innocent victim of a fraud, why are the Barrett's saying she's an adult scam artist? Why would she play along and hide her menstrual cycle and pretend to be a little girl? What's the point of that?

4. If she's in on it, what's the benefit to her? I go back to the original questions. Why smear bodily fluids on the wall and openly try to kill them? Where's evidence of payment to her? A kickback? Why stay with them for two years after receiving a kick back? Why go through this whole charade at all? Why not invest in an easier scam?

I'm trying to use logic here. Help me out.
Okay. Fair. So can you answer the rest?

1. Where is her accent? She came here as an adult according to you and the Barretts. I do not know anyone who came here as an older teen or adult who lost their accent. The very thing the Barrett's use to claim she is a scammer is the very thing IMO that proves she's not.

2. And if she was sold are you saying she's the innocent victim of a fraud or is she in on it?

3. If she's the innocent victim of a fraud, why are the Barrett's saying she's an adult scam artist? Why would she play along and hide her menstrual cycle and pretend to be a little girl? What's the point of that?

4. If she's in on it, what's the benefit to her? I go back to the original questions. Why smear bodily fluids on the wall and openly try to kill them? Where's evidence of payment to her? A kickback? Why stay with them for two years after receiving a kick back? Why go through this whole charade at all? Why not invest in an easier scam?

I'm trying to use logic here. Help me out.

The benefit to her is having no real responsibilities, to gain sympathy...adults tend to be extra nice to disabled children, many dote on them & coddle them. The Barnett’s goal was for her to lead as normal of an independent life as possible. Like getting a job, cooking & cleaning, shopping, laundry etc. Natalia did not want to be an adult. Being an adult is HARD. I would imagine it’s EXTRA HARD for a dwarf.

Openly trying to kill them & doing other disturbing things - her goal was to get moved to the next unsuspecting family and try again. I suspect that worked on the previous adoptive parents.
 
The benefit to her is having no real responsibilities, to gain sympathy...adults tend to be extra nice to disabled children, many dote on them & coddle them. The Barnett’s goal was for her to lead as normal of an independent life as possible. Like getting a job, cooking & cleaning, shopping, laundry etc. Natalia did not want to be an adult. Being an adult is HARD. I would imagine it’s EXTRA HARD for a dwarf.

Openly trying to kill them & doing other disturbing things - her goal was to get moved to the next unsuspecting family and try again. I suspect that worked on the previous adoptive parents.

Why would she need to be hospitalized or commit crimes? She has what she wants.

I explained upthread how psychopaths operate.

Would you argue this guy isn’t a psychopath?
4-year-old girl's heartbreaking last words before her dad killed her: 'Daddy, no!'

On a side note- You are WELL AWARE most people post only good things on their Facebook. People tend to project online what they want others to see.
 
I believe Natalia’s relationship with the Mann’s is a symbiotic one. let’s all hope it stays that way.
 
The benefit to her is having no real responsibilities, to gain sympathy...adults tend to be extra nice to disabled children, many dote on them & coddle them. The Barnett’s goal was for her to lead as normal of an independent life as possible. Like getting a job, cooking & cleaning, shopping, laundry etc. Natalia did not want to be an adult. Being an adult is HARD. I would imagine it’s EXTRA HARD for a dwarf.

Openly trying to kill them & doing other disturbing things - her goal was to get moved to the next unsuspecting family and try again. I suspect that worked on the previous adoptive parents.

Natalia didn't ask for this. The family she is with backed away from a legal fight to dispute her age with the Barnetts. They don't seem to want attention.
 
The benefit to her is having no real responsibilities, to gain sympathy...adults tend to be extra nice to disabled children, many dote on them & coddle them. The Barnett’s goal was for her to lead as normal of an independent life as possible. Like getting a job, cooking & cleaning, shopping, laundry etc. Natalia did not want to be an adult. Being an adult is HARD. I would imagine it’s EXTRA HARD for a dwarf.

Openly trying to kill them & doing other disturbing things - her goal was to get moved to the next unsuspecting family and try again. I suspect that worked on the previous adoptive parents.

Ok. She actually is disabled so that's not fake. How do you know what the Barrett's goal was? And how do you know Natalia resisted that?

This doesn't match with what the Barrett's have said. They said they had a bone scan done that indicated she was @ 14 during the time they had her. They only had her for two years. So why were they supposedly trying to force her to get a job and be an adult? Friend, you can't just make things up. Please provide a link that says Natalia began acting insane because they were forcing her to get a job and lead an "independent" life, as a disabled little person who at that point they thought was around 14?

Kristine says she began to believe Natalia was a teenager by the time of the around 14 year old bone scan. And at that time her behavioral problems manifested.

And why can't she get sympathy and love off disability and donations from people other than the Barretts? I mean you're saying she's this sophisticated, cunning psychopath so why would she be reduced to living with these people for two years instead of grifting off others?

Also, you still have not answered: How did this adult Ukranian scammer not have an accent?

You also haven't answered whether the Manns are grifting baby collectors scamming a cunning psychopath out of her social security monies or whether this cunning psychopath is grifting them by living the high life with these working class people of modest means whose excitement and entertainment seems to be derived from church.

I mean she can live off disability and internet scams. But with the Manns she can live rent free but doesn't get to keep any of her money and has to endure a house full of kids and Christ and working class status. You don't think this sophisticated grifter who somehow played along with an adoption scam that you appear to say she was both a victim of and a conspirator to, couldn't do better than the Manns?

With respect this doesn't make sense.

And can you explain how the adoption scam worked? Did the Ukranian scammers approach her and say, "Natalia, listen. We can see you are a psychopath. We can see you don't want to work. Here's the plan. We will sell you for x amount of money to a nice American family. You won't get any of that money but hey, you will live in America and won't have to work.

Just make sure to act like a baby. Hide your period. Don't let them bathe you. (Which she immediately did). It will be a nice life!"

And so she played a long and managed to lose her accent in a couple years? As a fully grown 18 year old adult?

This is not remotely making sense to me. I'm trying to understand your perspective but it makes no sense.
 
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If you are correct - you are correct & I am wrong.
If I am correct, she is a psychopath.
actually, if Gitana is correct, you are wrong and the Barrett’s are psychopaths.

And I am more convinced than ever that this is true.

Every. Last. Intelligent. Point. Made: By our verified attorney.
 
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The benefit to her is having no real responsibilities, to gain sympathy...adults tend to be extra nice to disabled children, many dote on them & coddle them. The Barnett’s goal was for her to lead as normal of an independent life as possible. Like getting a job, cooking & cleaning, shopping, laundry etc. Natalia did not want to be an adult. Being an adult is HARD. I would imagine it’s EXTRA HARD for a dwarf.

Openly trying to kill them & doing other disturbing things - her goal was to get moved to the next unsuspecting family and try again. I suspect that worked on the previous adoptive parents.
There is no proof of this at all. She sounds like a kid that craves a stable home. If she wasn't receiving her disability checks and the Barnetts were that means they were in charge of her money. They weren't physically supervising her. She could have been taken advantage she was alone in a strange city, most likely a minor with an apartment. Some skeevy guy could have ended up moving in and taking over her SSI checks. If she was an adult that would maybe be appealing or she would want her own place and money. You don't trade freedom for laundry and food.
The Barnetts have lied. Kristine Barnett makes money off of parenting advice. She should know nothing she has done for Natalia is how you parent.
 
Ok. She actually is disabled so that's not fake. How do you know what the Barrett's goal was? And how do you know Natalia resisted that?

This doesn't match with what the Barrett's have said. They said they had a bone scan done that indicated she was @ 14 during the time they had her. They only had her for two years. So why were they supposedly trying to force her to get a job and be an adult? Friend, you can't just make things up. Please provide a link that says Natalia began acting insane because they were forcing her to get a job and lead an "independent" life, as a disabled little person who at that point they thought was around 14?

Kristine says she began to believe Natalia was a teenager by the time of the around 14 year old bone scan. And at that time her behavioral problems manifested.

And why can't she get sympathy and love off disability and donations from people other than the Barretts? I mean you're saying she's this sophisticated, cunning psychopath so why would she be reduced to living with these people for two years instead of grifting off others?

Also, you still have not answered: How did this adult Ukranian scammer not have an accent?

You also haven't answered whether the Manns are grifting baby collectors scamming a cunning psychopath out of her social security monies or whether this cunning psychopath is grifting them by living the high life with these working class people of modest means whose excitement and entertainment seems to be derived from church.

I mean she can live off disability and internet scams. But with the Manns she can live rent free but doesn't get to keep any of her money and has to endure a house full of kids and Christ and working class status. You don't think this sophisticated grifter who somehow played along with an adoption scam that you appear to say she was both a victim of and a conspirator to, couldn't do better than the Manns?

With respect this doesn't make sense.

And can you explain how the adoption scam worked? Did the Ukranian scammers approach her and say, "Natalia, listen. We can see you are a psychopath. We can see you don't want to work. Here's the plan. We will sell you for x amount of money to a nice American family. You won't get any of that money but hey, you will live in America and won't have to work.

Just make sure to act like a baby. Hide your period. Don't let them bathe you. (Which she immediately did). It will be a nice life!"

And so she played a long and managed to lose her accent in a couple years? As a fully grown 18 year old adult?

This is not remotely making sense to me. I'm trying to understand your perspective but it makes no sense.

It’s a plausible theory in my opinion, I’m not married to it, I’m simply playing the role of Barnett’s defense attorney for free!

Kristine told us what her goals were, she acted on them.
 
It’s a plausible theory in my opinion, I’m not married to it, I’m simply playing the role of Barnett’s defense attorney for free!

Kristine told us what her goals were, she acted on them.

Okay. But defense attorneys come up with answers. And if they make up facts they usually lose.

How did this adult Ukranian scammer not have an accent?

How did the scam work?

Why would a sophisticated grifter settle for the Manns who have little to offer except to take her SSI money, according to you?

Kristine did not tell us what her goals were nor did she say that Natalia began acting insanely after she was required to work, etc. In fact she never said she required her to work and live independently at all. Can you link to where she stated what her goals were, that she acted on them and that Natalia then retaliated by acting insanely?

I have been able to provide links and exact quotes. Including proof that Kristine had begun to believe that Natalia was a teenager, around 14, and had a bone scan and that at that time, Natalia's behavior began to deteriorate. It wasn't until 2012 that she had her age changed. Which was AFTER she had already been hospitalized and according to Kristine it was during the hospitalization that her age as an adult was determined.

So can you explain to me how Natalia's behavior deteriorated after Kristine expected her to get a job and live independently when Kristine has made statements indicating Natalia's behavior deteriorated before they determined she was an adult?

I'm all for a good debate. But not one that is based on made-up facts!
 
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It’s a plausible theory in my opinion, I’m not married to it, I’m simply playing the role of Barnett’s defense attorney for free!

Kristine told us what her goals were, she acted on them.
Because Kristine, Christine, Pearson, or whatever she’s calling herself today, would Never be dishonest? Right?

God help her, if this is her best defense.

Edit: words in italics added for clarity. (too engrossed in the Yankees game)
 
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Because Kristine, Christine, Pearson, or whatever she’s calling herself today, would be dishonest.

God help her, if this is her best defense.

It would've been not too bad except for the fact that she -oops!- accidentally said that she began believing Natalia was a teenager, had a bone scan indicating she was about 14 and then her behavior deteriorated but BEFORE she was hospitalized and it was determined she was an adult.

So Kristine? How do you force a teenager with a disability to get a job and become an adult before you God out she's an adult?

I haven't seen a link to her making such an allegation anyhow but even if she had, her statements contradict such a theory. So no. It's not close to plausible.
 
It would've been not too bad except for the fact that she -oops!- accidentally said that she began believing Natalia was a teenager, had a bone scan indicating she was about 14 and then her behavior deteriorated but BEFORE she was hospitalized and it was determined she was an adult.

So Kristine? How do you force a teenager with a disability to get a job and become an adult before you God out she's an adult?

I haven't seen a link to her making such an allegation anyhow but even if she had, her statements contradict such a theory. So no. It's not close to plausible.

I totally agree. NB’s story hasn’t changed. Their’s keep shifting. It’s mind blowing.

And on a side note, I sure wish there would be a demand for a full mental health assessment of KPB: I’d put money on a Dark Triad dx.
 
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