IN - Couple charged with abandonment of adopted child after legally changing her age, Sept 2019

[claudianunes]

Sometimes birth certificates are guesstimates with dates estimated in foreign adoptions. I would think that the bc in Ukraine would be accurate but you can not really know if the child was abandoned or delivered to the orphanage via non-official means (from hospital or police station). All adoptees are required to have a physical examination before their paperwork is finalized as they need to prove immunizations and health records/history. In the countries I adopted from the physical was not too detailed but this is a child with a visible medical condition that would require some information to be noted like health of bones, health of internal organs, and teeth.

Since her mother was tracked, I'm assuming the birth date would be pretty accurate. Now, something that could have happen is that they were provided with a weird translation of the original birth certificate, but a date is a date, there's not much to get lost when it comes to that.

 

[kaen]

As far as I can tell bio mom gave her up because of her physical disabilities, which is not uncommon in the countries of the former Soviet Union. So I would assume the child was born in a hospital then send to an orphanage as an infant. I don't think mother ever took her home because from what she says, she just gave the child up because the child was physically disabled.

Could be absolutely.

 

[jjenny]

Since her mother was tracked, I'm assuming the birth date would be pretty accurate. Now, something that could have happen is that they were provided with a weird translation of the original birth certificate, but a date is a date, there's not much to get lost when it comes to that.

The date is a date, nobody is going to mess that up. Especially a year. We are not talking month here or there, Barnetts had N's birthday changed by more than 10 years.

 

[claudianunes]

The date is a date, nobody is going to mess that up. Especially a year. We are not talking month here or there, Barnetts had N's birthday changed by more than 10 years.

Exactly my point. How can a birth certificate be so confusing that they can't understand in which year a child was born?

 

[jjenny]

Exactly my point. How can a birth certificate be so confusing that they can't understand in which year a child was born?

I guess Barnetts managed to convince a judge it was fake.

 

[squareandrabbet]

There really doesn't seem to be much doubt here-she has a birth certificate, bio mom confirms that it's correct.

Oh, I absolutely agree it is proof enough for me, but in this crazy court case I don't trust it to be proof for a lot of people. The Hague Convention requirements are specifically designed to offer governmental protections guaranteeing that the document you hold in your hands is an original (or a copy of an original), does not appear to have been altered; and appears to have been signed by a government official. A copy from a foreign country without these protections, can't actually be used as legal evidence in a U.S court. I can't speak for what the Ukrainians do for Ukraine-facing documents; but in the U.S. depending upon country, you might have to send your U.S.-based documents intended for use in a foreign country, all the way to the United States Secretary of State's office, and it takes weeks to months. It's a big-arse process, and they don't take it lightly:

Apostilles and Legalization of Documents | U.S. Embassy in Ukraine

An apostille is the equivalent of an international notarial seal. Documents which bear an apostille are legally valid for use in all countries party to the Hague Convention on the Legalization of Documents. This includes both the United States and Ukraine.

The U.S. Embassy in Kyiv cannot apostille or authenticate documents issued in the United States. Such documents are apostilled by the Office of the Secretary of State (or the equivalent office) in the State which issued the original document. Contact information for the 50 Secretaries of State is available on the National Association of Secretaries of State website. Documents issued by the U.S. Government are apostilled by the Department of State’s Authentications Office.

Documents issued in Ukraine are apostilled by the Ministry of Justice . Civil registry documents (i.e. death, birth, marriage, divorce certificates, etc.) are apostilled at 15 Yevhena Sverstiuka St. (formerly Maryny Raskovoi St.) in Kyiv, phone number: +38-044-233-6513. Hours are Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. until 11:00 a.m. For information regarding notarized documents, please contact the Ministry of Justice at +38-044-233-6471.

 

[JENSPAL]

In the baptism pictures, does it look to anyone else like she has a black eye and some sort of scratch on her nose?

Yes, I noticed that, too. That photo was taken about 2 months after she was left alone in that apartment. I can't imagine what she went through during that time.

 

[Amonet]

Sometimes birth certificates are guesstimates with dates estimated in foreign adoptions. I would think that the bc in Ukraine would be accurate but you can not really know if the child was abandoned or delivered to the orphanage via non-official means (from hospital or police station). All adoptees are required to have a physical examination before their paperwork is finalized as they need to prove immunizations and health records/history. In the countries I adopted from the physical was not too detailed but this is a child with a visible medical condition that would require some information to be noted like health of bones, health of internal organs, and teeth. Doctors would question if the age or development was way off but without a specific birth certificate that would be less likely to happen (not saying hers was a non-specific or estimated

N was apparently given up to the orphanage at one month old. I would have thought that they'd have the birth certificate on record, and make a major note if this one month old baby looked more like a 13 year old.

 

[JENSPAL]

In the baptism pictures, does it look to anyone else like she has a black eye and some sort of scratch on her nose?

She looks like she's been through hell in those pics. Her adoptive parents abandoned her 2 months earlier. God only knows what she was exposed to during those 2 months before the Mans family took her in. Here's a side by side photo comparison that shows Natalia in the days after the Barnett's adopted her and what she looked like 2 months after they abandoned her. They literally extinguished her "Spark". Natalia Grace had her "Spark" extinguished by the Barnett's when they adopted and later abandoned her in a 2nd story apartment in a bad part of town when she was just 9 years old.

 

[Meloni88]

Something else I've noticed is how bad her posture got between the time they adopted her and just three years later when the Mans first took her in. I know her disorder is sort of degenerative and gets worse over time but it really seems quite drastic for such a short period of time. In the photos with the DePauls and early on with the Barnetts, other than the braces on her legs, she looks quite normal and robust at first glance. Then by 2013 she's significantly more hunched over and rigid looking. I'll go through some pictures in the morning and try to illustrate what I mean.

 

[Amonet]

Another thing I've noticed in the earlier photos compared to the snippet of the Dr Phil show appearance is how much N's nose has changed in that time. The cartilage has developed more of an 'adult' form in this time, and I think that normally occurs during the teen years, not in the mid- to late-twenties.

 

[ioethe]

Something else I've noticed is how bad her posture got between the time they adopted her and just three years later when the Mans first took her in. I know her disorder is sort of degenerative and gets worse over time but it really seems quite drastic for such a short period of time. In the photos with the DePauls and early on with the Barnetts, other than the braces on her legs, she looks quite normal and robust at first glance. Then by 2013 she's significantly more hunched over and rigid looking. I'll go through some pictures in the morning and try to illustrate what I mean.

One of the first posts concerning her on Cynthia’s Facebook is an inquiry about how to get her adapted shoes. So when the Barnetts left her, she could barely walk. I don’t care if she did throw Jacob’s homework into traffic - that’s inhuman.

ETA re her posture - the paperwork provided by the DuPauls suggests that she was undergoing intensive physio therapy at age five, which presumably she could no longer access one the Barnetts dumped her - she’s got no way of getting to the hospital. I hope that time without intervention hasn’t had a long term effect on her body but I doubt it.

 

[jjenny]

Something else I've noticed is how bad her posture got between the time they adopted her and just three years later when the Mans first took her in. I know her disorder is sort of degenerative and gets worse over time but it really seems quite drastic for such a short period of time. In the photos with the DePauls and early on with the Barnetts, other than the braces on her legs, she looks quite normal and robust at first glance. Then by 2013 she's significantly more hunched over and rigid looking. I'll go through some pictures in the morning and try to illustrate what I mean.

I don't know if she got all (or any) of the surgeries that she potentially needed. Whatever her exact type of dwarfism is (two different forms have been suggested), I believe both of these forms could lead to multiple surgeries. Mom on the "little couple" has SED and has had multiple surgeries. I haven't heard anything about N. having any major surgeries. She was legally made an adult, taken in by Mans, but Mans had no legal rights to her (and couldn't get legal guardianship since N. was ruled an adult). I guess she was just considered an adult living with them?

 

[jjenny]

One of the first posts concerning her on Cynthia’s Facebook is an inquiry about how to get her adapted shoes. So when the Barnetts left her, she could barely walk. I don’t care if she did throw Jacob’s homework into traffic - that’s inhuman.

ETA re her posture - the paperwork provided by the DuPauls suggests that she was undergoing intensive physio therapy at age five, which presumably she could no longer access one the Barnetts dumped her - she’s got no way of getting to the hospital. I hope that time without intervention hasn’t had a long term effect on her body but I doubt it.

That actually brings up a question. With her obvious physical disabilities, how believable is it that she did the things Barnetts accused her of doing?

 

[jjenny]

N was apparently given up to the orphanage at one month old. I would have thought that they'd have the birth certificate on record, and make a major note if this one month old baby looked more like a 13 year old.

I don't think anybody is going to confuse one month old baby with a 13 year old.

 

[claudianunes]

That actually brings up a question. With her obvious physical disabilities, how believable is it that she did the things Barnetts accused her of doing?

Absolutely not believable. At all.

 

[jjenny]

Raising a child with her type of dwarfism could be extremely challenging even under best circumstances, because these children often need multiple surgeries. Obviously you need a dedicated caretaker after the surgery. Here N. was declared an adult so was supposed to fetch for herself. And yes, it is obvious her spine was much straighter in earlier photos than it is now. As far as I can tell Mans couldn't even enroll N. in school because N. was legally an adult. I don't know what they could or couldn't do about her medical care. She was legally I presume just an adult living with them. They had no rights or obligations to her legally as far as I can tell.

 

[ioethe]

That actually brings up a question. With her obvious physical disabilities, how believable is it that she did the things Barnetts accused her of doing?

It’s something that’s been slightly bugging me for ages. KB describes Natalia “standing over people in the middle of the night.” MB describes her “standing over my bed”.

She’s three feet tall. Do you sleep on the floor?
One of them saying it could be an awkward choice of words, but both of them saying it makes it sound like an agreed upon narrative.

 

[Dawn Day]

They literally extinguished her "Spark". Natalia Grace had her "Spark" extinguished by the Barnett's when they adopted and later abandoned her in a 2nd story apartment in a bad part of town when she was just 9 years old.

Very very apt way of putting it. Simply heartbreaking

 

[Dawn Day]

Even though this song is about romantic love, I thought about NB when it came on the radio:

It took all the strength I had not to fall apart; Kept trying hard to mend the pieces of my broken heart; and I spent oh so many nights just feeling sorry for myself; I used to cry, but now I hold my head up high; and you see me, somebody new;>>>>>Did you think I’d crumble? Did you think I’d lay down and die? Oh No Not I, I will survive

(Gloria Gaynor, I Will Survive)