IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[mickey2942]

Bullies bully anything smaller. They are pathetic form of human.
My old dog held her ball in her mouth 24/7 but there was one person who would just take it from her mouth and hold onto it sometimes above his head, sit on it or put it up where she couldn’t reach it just to see her anguish.

I raised my voice at him not to touch the dogs ball ever!
It was cruel and I let him know it.

.

Teasing a dog, with a ball...is far different from taking an innocent baby, literally, and holding her outside a window.

I tease our cat, all of the time. That doesn't make me a psychopath.

 

[sl222]

IMO What happened with Chloe is about more than just these minutes that led to her death; it's are something to do with SA's personality, maturity, whether he's lazy, whether he skates through life leaning on more responsible people, etc., and I didn't intend to malign normal people who like video games, beer, smoking, etc., by any means. I said he reminds me of people who do very little that's constructive and who tend to get by because of the other people who are footing their bill or making their lives easier in multiple ways. I wouldn't be surprised if his wife has often had to monitor him in one thing or another. It was somewhat like that in my own family. One of my parents was careless, would spend money, say and do the wrong thing and appall their friends, and the other one kept them in check all the time. The other one had to keep a tight ship all the time to prevent bad choices.

I've been trying to make any sort of sense of this; that's why from the start it seemed like the only explanation was being under the influence of something. I'm trying to figure out what kind of person would do something like this. You don't just wake up one day and lift a precious baby over your head and cause her death and that's the only thing you've ever done in your whole life that was "inappropriate." We already had the one clue of the multiple citations disregarding seatbelt laws. I'd only have to get one of those to start buckling up to avoid getting another one. Often these kinds or people can seem super nice but people don't know what they're really like. The family etc. keeps saying he's such a great guy?? Not buying that.

But here's what I am still wondering. Chloe made a beeline from the pool to the window. It's odd to me. First she was following the other man who went to the window. Then she was stopped by SA who crouched down at the pillar - maybe to talk to her or maybe to get a cigarette, no idea. But why would she want to go to that window herself in the first place - she can hardly see it from the pool area at her height. It was about 30 or more feet away from her. It seems like it must have been mentioned to her by someone. Was her brother still at the pool or not? He was close by, that's all we know, because he was the first one at the scene.

 

[neesaki]

Since Chloe had 4 grandparents as well as her father on the cruise, I wonder why SA was chosen to take care of her when her mother had to go attend to an issue in the office.

Good question, why not a grandmother. Whatcha wanna bet he volunteered.

 

[Medstudies]

IMO What happened with Chloe is about more than just these minutes that led to her death; it's are something to do with SA's personality, maturity, whether he's lazy, whether he skates through life leaning on more responsible people, etc., and I didn't intend to malign normal people who like video games, beer, smoking, etc., by any means. I said he reminds me of people who do very little that's constructive and who tend to get by because of the other people who are footing their bill or making their lives easier in multiple ways. I wouldn't be surprised if his wife has often had to monitor him in one thing or another. It was somewhat like that in my own family. One of my parents was careless, would spend money, say and do the wrong thing and appall their friends, and the other one kept them in check all the time. The other one had to keep a tight ship all the time to prevent bad choices.

I've been trying to make any sort of sense of this; that's why from the start it seemed like the only explanation was being under the influence of something. I'm trying to figure out what kind of person would do something like this. You don't just wake up one day and lift a precious baby over your head and cause her death and that's the only thing you've ever done in your whole life that was "inappropriate." We already had the one clue of the multiple citations disregarding seatbelt laws. I'd only have to get one of those to start buckling up to avoid getting another one. Often these kinds or people can seem super nice but people don't know what they're really like. The family etc. keeps saying he's such a great guy?? Not buying that.

But here's what I am still wondering. Chloe made a beeline from the pool to the window. It's odd to me. First she was following the other man who went to the window. Then she was stopped by SA who crouched down at the pillar - maybe to talk to her or maybe to get a cigarette, no idea. But why would she want to go to that window herself in the first place - she can hardly see it from the pool area at her height. It was about 30 or more feet away from her. It seems like it must have been mentioned to her by someone. Was her brother still at the pool or not? He was close by, that's all we know, because he was the first one at the scene.

I kinda got slammed for posting his seat belt violations way back when.

But to me: (MOO) the seat belt thing was the kind of stuff that speaks of the persons character. (These are the things that show who a person is.)

Idk: Maybe he was really unlucky that he just happened to get caught the few times he didn’t use it. OR maybe he was really lucky he didn’t get caught all the times he didn’t?
And
Maybe this was the only time he was reckless with Chloe...

Idk. But the video is so different from the MW spin. And it’s sick

 

[neesaki]

This is a less grainy version of the CCTV recording than I've seen previously and this shows me 100 % SA leans out window looking down , this makes him a liar , he would have hit his forehead on the glass if window had been closed . Then hes seen picking up chloe and leaning out again . The distance between the handrail and window / open window is around 6 inch so if SA did sit C on rail they both would still be in line of sight . SA upper body is physically forward out of sight , this video IMO blows SA version of events out the water .
Putting any child in danger like this is horrifying and, in this case fatal . How Chloes mum can allow him to shirk out of any responsibility and go along with a very weak law suit against CC is beyond my comprehension . She left chloe in his care and he didn't fulfill the role . As a mum your child is the most precious thing to you and for someone whether you blood or not to treat them so carelessly is unforgivable . There doesn't need to be a sign saying ' don't sit on rail ' to know what's safe and what's not safe.
Don't hold a wet , wriggly , excited toddler near an open window . Its simple. If you choose to to do so with devastating consequences , own up to your failings

Thank you for this excellent post. Very well put Fidobell.

 

[neesaki]

The way that they're talking about it on the newscasts and articles from PR seem to indicate a lot of doubt.
And absolute horror. As it should be.
SA would be wise to take that plea deal that was offered !!!!
Does he want to fight this and possibly see charges upgraded ??

He would be wise to take the plea deal. But I for one hope he doesn’t.

 

[IceIce9]

Questions I would like to ask-

Did SA often take charge of Chloe on his own?

Did he and his wife ever spend time with Chloe? Like spending a day or weekend with Grandma & Grandpa?

Where was the rest of the family at the time of the incident? We’ve heard they were at the buffet, and we’ve heard mom went to the office. What is the truth?

Did Chloe’s mom ask SA to watch Chloe? Or did SA volunteer to watch her?

What did the family do from the time they boarded the ship? Did they stick together as a large extended family group, or did they split up and then meet up? Who was Chloe with, had she stayed with her parents?

Most of all I would like to hear from the other set of grandparents. What do they think about the accident, about SA, and the lawsuit?

 

[Safeguard]

Idk. But the video is so different from the MW spin. And it’s sick

So different in fact, I can't even believe they're going this route. They may as well have tried to convince us Chloe climbed out the window on her own. I can't help but wonder where their going with this? Can it really be a cash grab? Or do they need, (for psychological reasons?), to find a way to alleviate their own complicity? All of them had a hand in the child's demise after all. I could see wanting to deny that right now, ( desperately!), but why would seasoned attorneys try and build a case out of thin air?

 

[neesaki]

I don’t think we can imply intention on the part of SA per TOS. But it doesn’t have to be an intentional thought on SA’s part to be considered depraved indifference. IMO That’s just a “hair-split” away from a deliberate action. As we’ve discussed before, SA has a record of repeatedly flaunting the law regarding speeding and seatbelts. Believing you’re above the law is an intentional choice, even if the action itself isn’t intentional.

Definition:
In United States law, depraved-heart murder, also known as depraved-indifference murder, is a type of murder where an individual acts with a "depraved indifference" to human life and where such act results in a death, despite that individual not explicitly intending to kill. In a depraved-heart murder, defendants commit an act even though they know their act runs an unusually high risk of causing death or serious bodily harm to a person. If the risk of death or bodily harm is great enough, ignoring it demonstrates a "depraved indifference" to human life and the resulting death is considered to have been committed with malice aforethought.[1][2] In some states, depraved-heart killings constitute second-degree murder,[3] while in others, the act would be charged with varying degrees of manslaughter.[4]

Depraved-heart murder - Wikipedia

Depraved Indifference Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Very interesting, have never hear of this “depraved heart” murder. I wholeheartedly believe the man is depraved, no doubt about it in my mind.

In this case, I also would like for other charges to be added, such as endangering a child, child abuse... something, or anything. The man who did this to Chloe is either a cold blooded murderer, or, one of these depraved killers and an outright scary person, and as another poster stated, is a danger to others. He needs to be behind bars. Murder in the first would be fine too. JMO

 

[neesaki]

Bullies bully anything smaller. They are pathetic form of human.
My old dog held her ball in her mouth 24/7 but there was one person who would just take it from her mouth and hold onto it sometimes above his head, sit on it or put it up where she couldn’t reach it just to see her anguish.

I raised my voice at him not to touch the dogs ball ever!
It was cruel and I let him know it.

.

Oh no, poor sweet old doggie . That’s so mean. I’m so sorry they did that to your precious dog. One thing I seriously cannot stand is cruelty to animals. Sure glad you told the jackass off. Kudos!

 

[neesaki]

DBM

 

[neesaki]

IMO What happened with Chloe is about more than just these minutes that led to her death; it's are something to do with SA's personality, maturity, whether he's lazy, whether he skates through life leaning on more responsible people, etc., and I didn't intend to malign normal people who like video games, beer, smoking, etc., by any means. I said he reminds me of people who do very little that's constructive and who tend to get by because of the other people who are footing their bill or making their lives easier in multiple ways. I wouldn't be surprised if his wife has often had to monitor him in one thing or another. It was somewhat like that in my own family. One of my parents was careless, would spend money, say and do the wrong thing and appall their friends, and the other one kept them in check all the time. The other one had to keep a tight ship all the time to prevent bad choices.

I've been trying to make any sort of sense of this; that's why from the start it seemed like the only explanation was being under the influence of something. I'm trying to figure out what kind of person would do something like this. You don't just wake up one day and lift a precious baby over your head and cause her death and that's the only thing you've ever done in your whole life that was "inappropriate." We already had the one clue of the multiple citations disregarding seatbelt laws. I'd only have to get one of those to start buckling up to avoid getting another one. Often these kinds or people can seem super nice but people don't know what they're really like. The family etc. keeps saying he's such a great guy?? Not buying that.

But here's what I am still wondering. Chloe made a beeline from the pool to the window. It's odd to me. First she was following the other man who went to the window. Then she was stopped by SA who crouched down at the pillar - maybe to talk to her or maybe to get a cigarette, no idea. But why would she want to go to that window herself in the first place - she can hardly see it from the pool area at her height. It was about 30 or more feet away from her. It seems like it must have been mentioned to her by someone. Was her brother still at the pool or not? He was close by, that's all we know, because he was the first one at the scene.

SA is the one talking to her. He's the one who told her to go to the window. JMO

 

[Chikkamma]

IMO What happened with Chloe is about more than just these minutes that led to her death; it's are something to do with SA's personality, maturity, whether he's lazy, whether he skates through life leaning on more responsible people, etc., and I didn't intend to malign normal people who like video games, beer, smoking, etc., by any means. I said he reminds me of people who do very little that's constructive and who tend to get by because of the other people who are footing their bill or making their lives easier in multiple ways. I wouldn't be surprised if his wife has often had to monitor him in one thing or another. It was somewhat like that in my own family. One of my parents was careless, would spend money, say and do the wrong thing and appall their friends, and the other one kept them in check all the time. The other one had to keep a tight ship all the time to prevent bad choices.

I've been trying to make any sort of sense of this; that's why from the start it seemed like the only explanation was being under the influence of something. I'm trying to figure out what kind of person would do something like this. You don't just wake up one day and lift a precious baby over your head and cause her death and that's the only thing you've ever done in your whole life that was "inappropriate." We already had the one clue of the multiple citations disregarding seatbelt laws. I'd only have to get one of those to start buckling up to avoid getting another one. Often these kinds or people can seem super nice but people don't know what they're really like. The family etc. keeps saying he's such a great guy?? Not buying that.

But here's what I am still wondering. Chloe made a beeline from the pool to the window. It's odd to me. First she was following the other man who went to the window. Then she was stopped by SA who crouched down at the pillar - maybe to talk to her or maybe to get a cigarette, no idea. But why would she want to go to that window herself in the first place - she can hardly see it from the pool area at her height. It was about 30 or more feet away from her. It seems like it must have been mentioned to her by someone. Was her brother still at the pool or not? He was close by, that's all we know, because he was the first one at the scene.

I really enjoy reading your posts. They are thoughtful and always give me new insight into aspects of this case.

As to the reason Chloe went straight to that particular window, the La Comay host said it was the only clear path available from where they were standing at the column to the side of the ship. It is easier to see this in the alternate side view video. There were obstacles on one side (chairs etc) and a bar on the other side. The only clear path led straight to the window.

 

[Chikkamma]

but why would seasoned attorneys try and build a case out of thin air?

Publicity. Everyone here knows the name Winkleman because of this. This case has probably generated more publicity for him than he has had in his entire career. My opinion is he probably knows its a loser case, but took it for this reason alone.

 

[sl222]

Thanks, Chikkamma! I enjoy your posts too. Thanks for telling us what La Comay was saying about this.

 

[they'll get you]

This is really beside the point, considering what happened. But if he WAS smoking, why on earth would he be doing it with a toddler in the other arm?? That is reckless in my opinion too, did he just not care AT ALL about her health and well being?? Again, that’s IF he was smoking, which we obviously don’t know. The thought just bugs me! If it ends up being true, just one more act of selfishness IMO

I’m not sure about the smoking either but as he was walking over to the window he put his right hand up to his face and his right arm appears ‘free’ when Chloe was at the window.
Could he have burnt her accidently which made her wryth out of his hold.

I think we are all shocked at what we have been seeing.
We all know Chloe fell but the bald faced lies have shocked me.

 

[they'll get you]

Oh no, poor sweet old doggie . That’s so mean. I’m so sorry they did that to your precious dog. One thing I seriously cannot stand is cruelty to animals. Sure glad you told the jackass off. Kudos!

Thank you for understanding my point. I might play but never tease to hurt but this guy was cruel and it showed a weird side to him.

I’m running a parallel line here with SA and I don’t think this was the first time the fool acted like this because the crazy display was in a public place with no conscience.

 

[book-thinker]

Forgot to mention - the breeze? It’s like having a fan blowing straight at your face - I’m on a cabana sofa and it’s blowing my hair all over - he knew the window was open IMO totally guilty of being dangerous with a baby

Appreciate your thoughts on the breeze coming thru the windows. Unless he has no feeling in his upper body he would have felt even a slight breeze. Can't believe the grandfather is using the colorblind angle for his
defense in his upcoming trial. He is guilty. Anything less would be a travesty to justice and to sweet Chloe.
Bon Voyage!

 

[SouthAussie]

Appreciate your thoughts on the breeze coming thru the windows. Unless he has no feeling in his upper body he would have felt even a slight breeze. Can't believe the grandfather is using the colorblind angle for his
defense in his upcoming trial. He is guilty. Anything less would be a travesty to justice and to sweet Chloe.
Bon Voyage!

Looks, to me, that the negligent homicide charges are firm and he will likely be convicted of those.

It is the Attorney General who is publicly speaking for this case in Puerto Rico. the country's top law officer and chief prosecutor.

I think they have at least a couple of witnesses, judging by this pic.



Puerto Rico Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones and other officials said Anello "negligently exposed the child to the abyss through a window on the 11th floor of the cruise ship."
In an emailed statement, Prosecutor Quiñones said the Department of Justice is confident "that all of the evidence will prove Salvatore Anello's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."
Cruise ship toddler death: Chloe Wiegand family to sue Royal Caribbean

 

[katydid23]

For being in “a children’s play area” it is odd that you see so many adults and no other children in the video.

I've never seen a bar in the middle of as 'play area' before.