IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[jeena]

More scene photos, again from the family's civil complaint. Red mark again added by me.

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Too bad the videos aren't as clear as these photos. If it was CW's idea to walk to the window area, maybe she was attracted to the bright colors on the Squeeze bar walls? The bar decor almost looks like an amusement park stand for games, or an arcade for video games, etc. Thx for posting the photos.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I know people who got a citation for not wearing a seatbelt - ONCE. After they received a fine and demerit points ($300 and 3 points, where I live) they never did it again. The fact that he did it repeatedly is, to me, the equivalent of giving authority a giant finger.

SA gave everyone watching that interview he did the finger. What a complete load of CRUD.
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says he’s colorblind, calls court case "inconsequential"

 

[Kindred]

Too bad the videos aren't as clear as these photos. If it was CW's idea to walk to the window area, maybe she was attracted to the bright colors on the Squeeze bar walls? The bar decor almost looks like an amusement park stand for games, or an arcade for video games, etc. Thx for posting the photos.

I don't know if I'd blame it on the decor. She's a very small girl from Indiana, and those windows give a very nice view of a strange new place with palm trees and giant ships. In her excitement and curiosity, she probably was just like "oh! what's that over there?" and ran over just to look out the windows at all the things.

I don't see any reason why she would have wanted to bang on the windows like at a hockey game. At the ice rink, there are usually people on the other side (ie: her brother) who could see her and react and wave and smile or come over and interact with her. That's probably what she liked about banging on the glass, the people on the other side, not the banging itself. At that height, she probably wouldn't have even made the connection that there were even people out there because she'd never seen them like this before.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It seems like maybe SA and his wife would have watched Chloe together. “Chloe, you stay with grandma and grandpa while mommy runs down to the office.”

I wonder if grandpa purposely took her by himself so he could go smoke? Or for some other reason?

I would love to hear an interview with the other set of grandparents. Wonder what their thoughts are, and if they have viewed the video.

I've always figured that smoking was the reason, and it seems to be confirmed in the video. Early reports indicated that the rest of the family had gone to the buffet, and smoking is not permitted in dining areas. That story seems to have changed now as we learned that KW was on a ship-related errand. In that case, where was everyone else? Two parents, two sets of grandparents, and SA is the one charged with Chloe?

 

[justbreathe]

I've never seen a bar in the middle of as 'play area' before.

But what a great idea! I could have used a drink a time or 2 while in play area places.

 

[Kindred]

I've always figured that smoking was the reason, and it seems to be confirmed in the video. Early reports indicated that the rest of the family had gone to the buffet, and smoking is not permitted in dining areas. That story seems to have changed now as we learned that KW was on a ship-related errand. In that case, where was everyone else? Two parents, two sets of grandparents, and SA is the one charged with Chloe?

If mom took Chloe to play in the splash pad after lunch I suspect dad was probably with the older boy in the regular pool area. Grandparents could have been down in the rooms getting settled in or maybe just relaxing after all the traveling and bustle of boarding day and been there when someone showed up/called looking for mom or dad about whatever needed to be taken care of and SA offered to go up and find them (and possibly get a smoke in while he was at it). I don't think it's really that surprising if they were all in different spots and mom probably just thought her errand would only take 10-15 minutes tops and then she could go back to playing with her little one. I certainly wouldn't have expected something like this to happen

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Appreciate your thoughts on the breeze coming thru the windows. Unless he has no feeling in his upper body he would have felt even a slight breeze. Can't believe the grandfather is using the colorblind angle for his
defense in his upcoming trial. He is guilty. Anything less would be a travesty to justice and to sweet Chloe.
Bon Voyage!

[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pnVqnVynp][/URL]

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I kinda got slammed for posting his seat belt violations way back when.

But to me: (MOO) the seat belt thing was the kind of stuff that speaks of the persons character. (These are the things that show who a person is.)

Idk: Maybe he was really unlucky that he just happened to get caught the few times he didn’t use it. OR maybe he was really lucky he didn’t get caught all the times he didn’t?
And
Maybe this was the only time he was reckless with Chloe...

Idk. But the video is so different from the MW spin. And it’s sick

Now that I've seen SA's girth in the video, it's easy to understand why he doesn't like to wear a seatbelt. The restraint is probably quite uncomfortable for a man of his size. Not to get too analytic, but I also think that not wearing a seatbelt is an indication of a person who doesn't want to be "held back" or restricted from doing what he/she wants to do.

 

[justbreathe]

The red circle is mine. This is taken from the civil complaint so this IS the window

**edit - can I just say I love that they managed to get out there at like, the *advertiser censored* crack of dawn before the sun was up to take pictures that make it look like there is no tinting on those windows and therefore no possible way to tell which ones are open or not

I just don’t see how this picture helps their case, tint or no tint, because you can clearly see the window frame. And once you put your head, hand, a baby *beyond* the frame, you have to know there is no window there. You are outside. There are no magic windows that just float in the air not attached to anything at all.

This is also why I think the videos clearly show SA and baby Chloe leaning way beyond where the window would be, because you can see the window frames along the whole wall. You can see the tinted glass of the closed windows, even in a picture, and you can see exactly where the panes of glass are in relation to the entire upper half of SA’s body and Chloe - which is completely beyond the window frame.

He would have had to think it was a window bubble, like in those Chuck E Cheese climbing things, that a child could actually sit in.

I predict SA is going to have depth perception issues next. Before we are done he is going to be portrayed as basically blind, stumbling around the ship with a toddler.

 

[justbreathe]

SA said he doesn't care what happens to him, because the worst happened already, so why is he still paying an attorney to keep him out of jail if he can plea out and be free? It's been reported he might want to go to trial and clear his name. Why? If he doesn't care what happens to him, why does his care what people think about him? Does he not care about what happens to him, but cares if the family gets a big settlement to absolve his guilt, so he'll take his chances on a trial?

In SA’s interview he said he used to think it was his fault, but now he does bot. He thinks it is the ship’s fault. He does not think this is his fault. That makes me ill. What a horrible, horrible man.

 

[justbreathe]

Someone pointed this out on one of the cruise forums and now it has me wondering. How exactly did they get matched with Winkleman so quickly? IIRC they were lawyered up with him in less than 24 hours weren't they? I know lawyers can track down landline phones and home addresses pretty quickly but they weren't at home, they were a million miles away in PR where they only would have had cell phones. And cell phone companies DO NOT like to give out subscriber information so I doubt he would have been able to look them up and just call them out there on the island.

And no offense to the ambulance chaser but, his profile on his firms webpage doesn't really make me say "oh yeah, that's the guy I want". Seriously, this guy tries to claim that he is the reason a SCOTUS appeal won for a case he didn't argue and an amicus brief he wasn't even listed as "counsel of record" on. (his name is there, but it's the last name after other lawyers). Anyone have any idea how this match made in purgatory could have been made?

It’s almost as if they looked into lawyers before they even left for their vacation.

 

[sl222]

IIRC the parents said from the beginning that they were referred to Winkleman by someone they knew or a colleague. But I don't necessarily think this means it was someone who knew his work directly. It could mean that they called attorney friends in Indiana and someone looked up lawsuits against cruise lines, which led to Winkleman.

The family was just days into their grief at the time of the first tv appearance. Winkleman was their advisor. Did he advise against it or for it? Only they know.

 

[mickey2942]

I just don’t see how this picture helps their case, tint or no tint, because you can clearly see the window frame. And once you put your head, hand, a baby *beyond* the frame, you have to know there is no window there. You are outside. There are no magic windows that just float in the air not attached to anything at all.

This is also why I think the videos clearly show SA and baby Chloe leaning way beyond where the window would be, because you can see the window frames along the whole wall. You can see the tinted glass of the closed windows, even in a picture, and you can see exactly where the panes of glass are in relation to the entire upper half of SA’s body and Chloe - which is completely beyond the window frame.

He would have had to think it was a window bubble, like in those Chuck E Cheese climbing things, that a child could actually sit in.

I predict SA is going to have depth perception issues next. Before we are done he is going to be portrayed as basically blind, stumbling around the ship with a toddler.

That has been my point all the time. Blind people are not stupid. They are definitely not going to pick up a child and hold her out a window.

A "normal" Grandfather, (and I use that term loosely, as SA is only 55.). Anyway, a normal Grandfather, especially a blind one, just sits around, watches the kid play, maybe holds her on his lap. If she wanders over to a window, pick her up, go back to play area. How difficult is this?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

In SA’s interview he said he used to think it was his fault, but now he does bot. He thinks it is the ship’s fault. He does not think this is his fault. That makes me ill. What a horrible, horrible man.

Winkleman has convinced Grandpa (and the parents) that it's the ship's fault and that there's money to be made by blaming RCCL. SA is totally responsible for what happened to Chloe, and he knew it, until someone told him to think otherwise.

 

[neesaki]

In SA’s interview he said he used to think it was his fault, but now he does bot. He thinks it is the ship’s fault. He does not think this is his fault. That makes me ill. What a horrible, horrible man.

You and me both. If he truly is interested in clearing his name, the first thing to do is admit his guilt, that he’s responsible, him and him alone.... and drop the civil suit.

 

[al66pine]

.... How exactly did they get matched with Winkleman so quickly? IIRC they were lawyered up with him in less than 24 hours weren't they?....Anyone have any idea how this match made in purgatory could have been made?

@Kindred bbm sbm. Yes, an idea. Seems likely that after a shipboard injury or death, that ppl would google -- atty and cruiseline. That firm name pops up. jmo

 

[Kindred]

I just don’t see how this picture helps their case, tint or no tint, because you can clearly see the window frame. And once you put your head, hand, a baby *beyond* the frame, you have to know there is no window there. You are outside. There are no magic windows that just float in the air not attached to anything at all.

This is also why I think the videos clearly show SA and baby Chloe leaning way beyond where the window would be, because you can see the window frames along the whole wall. You can see the tinted glass of the closed windows, even in a picture, and you can see exactly where the panes of glass are in relation to the entire upper half of SA’s body and Chloe - which is completely beyond the window frame.

snipped by me. switching to sarcasm font

But it's a WALL! Of GLASS!! Just LOOK at that WALL!! Ignore the fact that the windows are clearly all closed now and have been moved from the positions at the time of the accident. Just look at it!! Doesn't it look like a WALL OF GLASS?? I certainly don't see any indication there are openable windows there. Who knows what those handle looking things could be, all I see is a WALL OF GLASS!!

 

[Kindred]

Winkleman has convinced Grandpa (and the parents) that it's the ship's fault and that there's money to be made by blaming RCCL. SA is totally responsible for what happened to Chloe, and he knew it, until someone told him to think otherwise.

I am hopeful that the silence since that first statement after the video came out is because they finally got a reality check and are having second thoughts about the whole thing. It's their first Christmas without her and if it were me the grief would be hitting hard. Part of me still wants to think that the parents are reasonable people who got swept up by a lawyer who is taking advantage of their tragedy to finally make himself famous. Only time will tell. We'll have to see what happens next.

@Kindred bbm sbm. Yes, an idea. Seems likely that after a shipboard injury or death, that ppl would google -- atty and cruiseline. That firm name pops up. jmo

This is true but most people don't go with the first name that pops up when looking for a lawyer. Especially when his top bragging points are over 100 TV appearances on talk shows and being listed as a "Top Attorney Under 40" by Florida Trend Magazine. You would think as a federal prosecutor herself mom might have been a little pickier and gone for the best, not the most advertised.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I just don’t see how this picture helps their case, tint or no tint, because you can clearly see the window frame. And once you put your head, hand, a baby *beyond* the frame, you have to know there is no window there. You are outside. There are no magic windows that just float in the air not attached to anything at all.

This is also why I think the videos clearly show SA and baby Chloe leaning way beyond where the window would be, because you can see the window frames along the whole wall. You can see the tinted glass of the closed windows, even in a picture, and you can see exactly where the panes of glass are in relation to the entire upper half of SA’s body and Chloe - which is completely beyond the window frame.

He would have had to think it was a window bubble, like in those Chuck E Cheese climbing things, that a child could actually sit in.

I predict SA is going to have depth perception issues next. Before we are done he is going to be portrayed as basically blind, stumbling around the ship with a toddler.

I was thinking that we might learn about SA's mental health issues

 

[Safeguard]

Most of all I would like to hear from the other set of grandparents. What do they think about the accident, about SA, and the lawsuit?

Maybe they aren't quite as "supportive" of Sam.

I would be livid myself . They were also aboard when Chloe was killed. It's impressive imo that not a single comment from them can be found. I imagine they are silent on the issue because they have been asked not to speak if they can't support the lie.

Good for them!

The family claiming the video would be "distressing for their son" is bizarre isn't it? They are making Chloe's killer out to be some sort of misunderstood victim of circumstances and thrusting their family/son into the public eye.

What could be more disturbing for the boy than to witness his parents sacrificing his emotional well being for the sake of his sisters killer? All the while they pour all their rage onto an inanimate object (the ship)!

"Fix the ship"... Wow. No one ever has before, nor will again, do what Grandpa did, but it's the "ships fault".

I how this whole family gets intensive grief counseling.