IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[Kindred]

Thank you for reposting your thoughts! I posted similar waaaay back but now that the video is out it's good to revisit both the criminal charge and the civil case.

I'll add that since the civil suit is brought in Miami if it doesn't settle and actually goes to trial there's a small chance that a jury will award the family something simply out of sympathy. Most people aren't following the cases as closely as we are and a jury will depend upon what's presented. And as we all know, juries can be unpredictable!

There's also a small chance that RCCL will be found a percentage liable and IMO a larger chance that SA will also be found a large percentage liable. At this point with what I know I'd not award a penny to this family but who knows what a Miami jury would do? Watching a good copy of the video may very well swing things though. I hope so as I strongly feel that no one should be rewarded for acting like a jackass. I feel the same about people who get drunk and fall overboard. We're adults for goodness sakes and responsible for our own actions. MOO.

Actually there's still very little chance, even with it being a "Florida jury" because, again, precedence.

In the case of Nathan Skokan the claims were that RC was negligent in allowing him to drink to much, and that they took too long in starting rescue procedures once he witnessed and reported overboard. It was admitted that a key step in the rescue was skipped, and it took 2 hours for them to get a rescue boat in the water. Jury still found RC not at fault https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article223203335.html

Perhaps more applicable to SA's actions, the case of Samantha Broberg Carnival was found not at fault after a highly intoxicated woman went back to her room, moved the balcony furniture so that she could climb up and sit on the balcony rail and then fell off. This one the family tried to claim violations of regulations but judge dismissed those claims before trial (which I imagine same will happen here) which boiled everything down to "you should have known this would happen". https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article223914815.html

That's just two cases, and there are dozens, if not hundreds and they will all be cited as precedence in RC's defense. Not to mention the video footage, and whatever outcome of the criminal trial. There is pretty much no way the wiegands can get a majority vote from a jury

 

[they'll get you]

Looks, to me, that the negligent homicide charges are firm and he will likely be convicted of those.

It is the Attorney General who is publicly speaking for this case in Puerto Rico. the country's top law officer and chief prosecutor.

I think they have at least a couple of witnesses, judging by this pic.

View attachment 221575

Puerto Rico Attorney General Dennise N. Longo Quiñones and other officials said Anello "negligently exposed the child to the abyss through a window on the 11th floor of the cruise ship."
In an emailed statement, Prosecutor Quiñones said the Department of Justice is confident "that all of the evidence will prove Salvatore Anello's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."
Cruise ship toddler death: Chloe Wiegand family to sue Royal Caribbean

It’s no wonder that he was charged when they saw the footage.

 

[SouthAussie]

It’s no wonder that he was charged when they saw the footage.

I wouldn't be shocked, though, if SA has been offered a plea deal. When I looked through a listing of
Dennise Longo Quinones cases, there are a number of guilty pleas (plea deals?)

Dennise N. Longo Quinones Leagle Profile | Leagle

 

[katydid23]

I wouldn't be shocked, though, if SA has been offered a plea deal. When I looked through a listing of
Dennise Longo Quinones cases, there are a number of guilty pleas (plea deals?)

Dennise N. Longo Quinones Leagle Profile | Leagle

He was offered a plea deal. NO jail time, all he is required to do is admit responsibility and guilt and he gets probation, no jail time.

And he is 'leaning' towards the trial instead of the plea deal, according to the attorneys.

This was posted upstream a couple days ago---I will try and find a link...

 

[SouthAussie]

He was offered a plea deal. NO jail time, all he is required to do is admit responsibility and guilt and he gets probation, no jail time.

And he is 'leaning' towards the trial instead of the plea deal, according to the attorneys.

This was posted upstream a couple days ago---I will try and find a link...

No worries. I did see that already. Though I have also seen people questioning if he was really offered a plea deal.
I think he likely was.
That is why I went trawling through Dennise Longo Quinones cases, to see her propensity for offering plea deals when a case is a 'certain' win.

 

[they'll get you]

When I was onboard I only twice held my phone outside the railing and that was to get pics for us to sleuth.
I have a string-thingy to hold my glasses on so they wouldn’t fall overboard. Why on this God’s green earth would you hold a baby over the rails?
Honestly I’m still in shock from what I’ve seen.
There’s a large puzzle piece missing as something is not making sense.

 

[SouthAussie]

When I was onboard I only twice held my phone outside the railing and that was to get pics for us to sleuth.
I have a string-thingy to hold my glasses on so they wouldn’t fall overboard. Why on this God’s green earth would you hold a baby over the rails?
Honestly I’m still in shock from what I’ve seen.
There’s a large puzzle piece missing as something is not making sense.

I completely don't get it either, tgy.

I can't believe anyone would be that 'stupid'. It is not as if the ship was on fire and Chloe had to be thrown to a safety net waiting below. I can't begin to comprehend that anyone would take such a risk with a child's life for any other reason than that.
And yet the man doesn't seem to be completely deranged (that we know of). So what the heck piece is missing here??

 

[they'll get you]

There are many different railings on the ship and these are found everywhere, IMO a small child could climb through these.
There was a helecopter evacuation on my cruise and I couldn’t get any information about what happened, I was told that information was confidential so if a child should crawl through these railings no one would know about it except the witnesses.
(Sorry sideways again)

 

[they'll get you]

I completely don't get it either, tgy.

I can't believe anyone would be that 'stupid'. It is not as if the ship was on fire and Chloe had to be thrown to a safety net waiting below. I can't begin to comprehend that anyone would take such a risk with a child's life for any other reason than that.
And yet the man doesn't seem to be completely deranged (that we know of). So what the heck piece is missing here??

I should’ve taken a pic of the dock down from deck 11 because it can’t be mistaken it’s a freakin’ long way down!!
The first time you look you catch your breath. Hopefully Chloe thought it was just a pretty picture in front of her and didn’t feel any fear. Poor little angel.

The mongrel wouldn’t want me on the jury I swear he’s lucky I’m in Australia.

 

[BrownRice]

I find it strange that no-one came to help him but all got up and walked away. Why?

Secondly, the smoking section has upright seats, ashtrays and tables, not those day-lounges.

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall

Wow. This video quality is superb compared to others.

 

[neesaki]

I’m still thinking of the “depraved murder” theory that @Lilibet posted on earlier.
What do you guys think, going by SA’s actions and what we know thus far.... if not intentional and premeditated. Does it seem to fit?

Dictionary
de·praved
/dəˈprāvd/

Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. morally corrupt; wicked.
   "a depraved indifference to human life"
   
   Similar:
   corrupt corrupted perverted deviant
   
   Depraved Heart Murder Definition
   
   

   “Depraved heart murder is the form of murder that establishes that the willful doing of a dangerous and reckless act with wanton indifference to the consequences and perils involved, is just as blameworthy, and just as worthy of punishment, when the harmful result ensues, as is the express intent to kill itself. This highly blameworthy state of mind is not one of mere negligence. It is not merely one even of gross criminal negligence. It involves rather the deliberate perpetration of a knowingly dangerous act with reckless and wanton unconcern and indifference as to whether anyone is harmed or not. The common law treats such a state of mind as just as blameworthy, just as anti-social and, therefore, just as truly murderous as the specific intents to kill and to harm."

 

[jeena]

SA said he doesn't care what happens to him, because the worst happened already, so why is he still paying an attorney to keep him out of jail if he can plea out and be free? It's been reported he might want to go to trial and clear his name. Why? If he doesn't care what happens to him, why does his care what people think about him? Does he not care about what happens to him, but cares if the family gets a big settlement to absolve his guilt, so he'll take his chances on a trial?

 

[jeena]

Why have we not seen a close-up of the exact window where the incident occurred? The window with the railing which is shown has a caption that says it's very similar to the real one. Where is the close-up photo of the real one?

 

[Kindred]

Why have we not seen a close-up of the exact window where the incident occurred? The window with the railing which is shown has a caption that says it's very similar to the real one. Where is the close-up photo of the real one?

The red circle is mine. This is taken from the civil complaint so this IS the window

**edit - can I just say I love that they managed to get out there at like, the *advertiser censored* crack of dawn before the sun was up to take pictures that make it look like there is no tinting on those windows and therefore no possible way to tell which ones are open or not

 

[Kindred]

More scene photos, again from the family's civil complaint. Red mark again added by me.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

SA is the one talking to her. He's the one who told her to go to the window. JMO

BBM Yeah, He's got a lot of 'splainin' to do. That is a very serious fact right there.

 

[Montrealaise]

I kinda got slammed for posting his seat belt violations way back when.

But to me: (MOO) the seat belt thing was the kind of stuff that speaks of the persons character. (These are the things that show who a person is.)

Idk: Maybe he was really unlucky that he just happened to get caught the few times he didn’t use it. OR maybe he was really lucky he didn’t get caught all the times he didn’t?
And
Maybe this was the only time he was reckless with Chloe...

Idk. But the video is so different from the MW spin. And it’s sick

I know people who got a citation for not wearing a seatbelt - ONCE. After they received a fine and demerit points ($300 and 3 points, where I live) they never did it again. The fact that he did it repeatedly is, to me, the equivalent of giving authority a giant finger.

 

[Kindred]

Someone pointed this out on one of the cruise forums and now it has me wondering. How exactly did they get matched with Winkleman so quickly? IIRC they were lawyered up with him in less than 24 hours weren't they? I know lawyers can track down landline phones and home addresses pretty quickly but they weren't at home, they were a million miles away in PR where they only would have had cell phones. And cell phone companies DO NOT like to give out subscriber information so I doubt he would have been able to look them up and just call them out there on the island.

And no offense to the ambulance chaser but, his profile on his firms webpage doesn't really make me say "oh yeah, that's the guy I want". Seriously, this guy tries to claim that he is the reason a SCOTUS appeal won for a case he didn't argue and an amicus brief he wasn't even listed as "counsel of record" on. (his name is there, but it's the last name after other lawyers). Anyone have any idea how this match made in purgatory could have been made?

 

[Montrealaise]

All the discussions about whether someone can feel a breeze, whether the windows are tinted and how colorblindness may be a factor are now irrelevant after what the video shows. He knew the window was open - he stuck his head and shoulders out of the window before lifting Chloe up! HE KNEW. End of discussion.
What I cannot understand is how Chloe's parents are still supporting him. He killed their baby girl through his gross negligence and depraved indifference. Even if they haven't seen the video, surely someone else has and told them what it shows, yet they are supporting SA and continuing their lawsuit against RCCL. Is the money that important to them?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

All the discussions about whether someone can feel a breeze, whether the windows are tinted and how colorblindness may be a factor are now irrelevant after what the video shows. He knew the window was open - he stuck his head and shoulders out of the window before lifting Chloe up! HE KNEW. End of discussion.
What I cannot understand is how Chloe's parents are still supporting him. He killed their baby girl through his gross negligence and depraved indifference. Even if they haven't seen the video, surely someone else has and told them what it shows, yet they are supporting SA and continuing their lawsuit against RCCL. Is the money that important to them?

BBM Apparently so.