IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[book-thinker]

When I was onboard I only twice held my phone outside the railing and that was to get pics for us to sleuth.
I have a string-thingy to hold my glasses on so they wouldn’t fall overboard. Why on this God’s green earth would you hold a baby over the rails?
Honestly I’m still in shock from what I’ve seen.
There’s a large puzzle piece missing as something is not making sense.

Thank you for for being our sleuth eyes!
This had to be difficult taking pictures knowing what grandpa did to Chloe.
He lacks what 99% grandparents do,
protect your grandchildren in harms way.
SW talked about how devastated his life is
since Chloe fell to her death. A narcissist talking! This reckless fool robbed her of a beautiful childhood. I can’t understand why the parents are standing him.

 

[al66pine]

Why Parents Engaged Winkleman

....This is true but most people don't go with the first name that pops up when looking for a lawyer. Especially when his top bragging points are over 100 TV appearances on talk shows and being listed as a "Top Attorney Under 40" by Florida Trend Magazine. You would think as a federal prosecutor herself mom might have been a little pickier and gone for the best, not the most advertised.

@Kindred sbm Agreeing w you re that part of their selection criteria. IDK why. Maybe after reading firm's website and seeing description of the app below, they decided. You'll recall that Chloe's father did take photos, as advised below and one or more was published in the now-deleted threads.

"Download Our Free Cruise Ship Injury App
Our legal team has developed a unique iPhone and Android-compatible application designed to help you when you need a maritime lawyer the most. Download our exclusive application and bring it with you on your smartphone or tablet on your next cruise vacation. Our app allows you to easily store and retain everything you might need to present to a lawyer:

• Capture and record data and photos about your accident or injuries [bbm, ubm]
• Input and track injury-related expenses
• Review incident response checklists to help you in a cruise accident
• Find the closest medical facility
• Place Skype calls from your device if you are injured at sea
• Submit a free case evaluation form to our team

Designed and launched exclusively by our firm, the app offers every feature you need if you are injured on your next cruise ship excursion – even a built-in flashlight if you are caught in the dark. Download it for free today.

Contact xxxxxxxx Winkleman, P.A., today for a free, no-commitment consultation with a maritime lawyer. You can contact us by completing the submission form on our home page or by calling our toll-free number at 1-888-311-9929." ^xxxxxx'ed by me

Also on website, on list of companies sued:
"[law firm name] has successfully represented passengers and crewmembers injured aboard Royal Caribbean literally hundreds of times.
Suing Royal Caribbean

And lots of info about top dollar recoveries on the firm's site. jmo

 

[gogrannypop]

I just don’t see how this picture helps their case, tint or no tint, because you can clearly see the window frame. And once you put your head, hand, a baby *beyond* the frame, you have to know there is no window there. You are outside. There are no magic windows that just float in the air not attached to anything at all.

This is also why I think the videos clearly show SA and baby Chloe leaning way beyond where the window would be, because you can see the window frames along the whole wall. You can see the tinted glass of the closed windows, even in a picture, and you can see exactly where the panes of glass are in relation to the entire upper half of SA’s body and Chloe - which is completely beyond the window frame.

He would have had to think it was a window bubble, like in those Chuck E Cheese climbing things, that a child could actually sit in.

I predict SA is going to have depth perception issues next. Before we are done he is going to be portrayed as basically blind, stumbling around the ship with a toddler.

I'm thinking Carpal Tunnel is going to be on this ever increasing list of grandpas ailments.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

It’s almost as if they looked into lawyers before they even left for their vacation.

IIRC isn't there a cruise ship litigation app for the phone? And didn't they have it? Hunting around for a link on that...JMOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Some of you have probably seen this commercial that gives me chills and makes me feel unwell every time I see it The commercial started airing after Chloe's tragic death, and I always think of how afraid and alone she must have felt in her final moments. Like the little girl in the commercial, Chloe didn't realize what danger lay ahead when she toddled toward the ship windows. XFINITY Mobile TV Commercial, 'First Words'

 

[al66pine]

dbm.

 

[sl222]

It may have been Mr. Wiegand's father sitting next to him to on the end at the December press conference. Or possibly another grandparent. There could be 2 more sets of grandparents here (due to remarriages). I think the other grandparents are wise enough not to add their voices to the publicity. No doubt some of them have seen the video and even before that, you know this has had to be terrible for them in so many ways.

 

[al66pine]

Cruise Ship Litigation App?

IIRC isn't there a cruise ship litigation app for the phone? And didn't they have it? Hunting around for a link on that...JMOO

@SaguaroSpirit There's an app for that!
See more at my post #606, just upthread. IDK if they actually had it on their phones/devices before the cruise, but the app recommends it ---
"... unique iPhone and Android-compatible application designed to help you when you need a maritime lawyer the most. Download our exclusive application and bring it with you on your smartphone or tablet on your next cruise vacation. Our app allows you to easily store and retain everything you might need to present to a lawyer:..." bbm

 

[justbreathe]

Maybe they aren't quite as "supportive" of Sam.

I would be livid myself . They were also aboard when Chloe was killed. It's impressive imo that not a single comment from them can be found. I imagine they are silent on the issue because they have been asked not to speak if they can't support the lie.

Good for them!

The family claiming the video would be "distressing for their son" is bizarre isn't it? They are making Chloe's killer out to be some sort of misunderstood victim of circumstances and thrusting their family/son into the public eye.

What could be more disturbing for the boy than to witness his parents sacrificing his emotional well being for the sake of his sisters killer? All the while they pour all their rage onto an inanimate object (the ship)!

"Fix the ship"... Wow. No one ever has before, nor will again, do what Grandpa did, but it's the "ships fault".

I how this whole family gets intensive grief counseling.

Exactly this! Of course the video will be distressing to their son. I’m under the impression the parents are claiming to still not have watched it. I find this hard to believe because cop dad had the presence to snap a photo of the scene, which seems weird in one way, but a yet a very cop like thing to do.

But he won’t watch the evidence of exactly what happened to cause the death of his little girl? I find that hard to believe.

I wonder if the video was only offered to the parents by the cruise line right after, and not SA and their refusal to watch it made SA believe he could shirk responsibility for what happened at least in their eyes. If they never watch it they could keep believing the ship was at fault.

At any rate, if they really wanted to keep this from their son, which would really be a noble goal, they would have had SA take the plea and dropped the civil suit, with an agreement the footage would never be made public - via criminal or civil action.

Now he will decide to watch this someday, and if he sees what we all see he will ask his mom what the heck she was thinking.

 

[Safeguard]

Exactly this! Of course the video will be distressing to their son. I’m under the impression the parents are claiming to still not have watched it. I find this hard to believe because cop dad had the presence to snap a photo of the scene, which seems weird in one way, but a yet a very cop like thing to do.

Oh, but the claim is being made, that the footage completely clears SA. How could their son be distressed if the video saves his beloved grampa?

The boy already knows what happened to Chloe (in so far as she "fell" 11 Decks to her death!) what could be more disturbing than that?!

Maybe finding out dear ol grandad plucked her from the safety of the deck and waved her out the window like a macabre Bon Voyage?

Yeah that would be "distressing".

 

[Kindred]

BBM

Designed and launched exclusively by our firm, the app offers every feature you need if you are injured on your next cruise ship excursion – even a built-in flashlight if you are caught in the dark. Download it for free today.

Shut the front door! I need to get me that app just so I can have a built-in flashlight on my cell phone!

Oh wait...

All joking aside that might have been what did it. Love the whole "take this with you before you go!" line. Might as well have added a "here's some tips for finding the best place to find wet floors for your slip and fall 'accident'. Let us make you rich!"

 

[IceIce9]

View attachment 221609
There are many different railings on the ship and these are found everywhere, IMO a small child could climb through these.
There was a helecopter evacuation on my cruise and I couldn’t get any information about what happened, I was told that information was confidential so if a child should crawl through these railings no one would know about it except the witnesses.
(Sorry sideways again)

BBM


Shut the front door! I need to get me that app just so I can have a built-in flashlight on my cell phone!

Oh wait...

All joking aside that might have been what did it. Love the whole "take this with you before you go!" line. Might as well have added a "here's some tips for finding the best place to find wet floors for your slip and fall 'accident'. Let us make you rich!"

With video cameras everywhere now I am sure more people get caught attempting to set up accidents in order to obtain a quick settlement.

Recently local news featured a story on a woman who had threatened to sue a convenience store chain for injuries suffered in a fall. She quickly changed her mind when they showed video of her carefully spilling her soda on the floor, circling back a few seconds later, slipping in it and falling dramatically to the floor.

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM


Shut the front door! I need to get me that app just so I can have a built-in flashlight on my cell phone!

Oh wait...

All joking aside that might have been what did it. Love the whole "take this with you before you go!" line. Might as well have added a "here's some tips for finding the best place to find wet floors for your slip and fall 'accident'. Let us make you rich!"

Yesterday I went through the first reports that I could find about this incident. I had of course heard of it immediately (world wide news) but didn't focus on the details at the time.

I was shocked at how quickly a lawsuit attorney was in the picture. Chloe was deceased on Sunday afternoon 7th July. Winkleman was speaking for the family by Wednesday 10th July (and the story was changing).

Somehow I sense that they probably got a call from him as soon as he heard of the tragedy, and they engaged him to help them work through the 'red tape' of transporting Chloe home. It is mentioned by Winkleman how they had been stuck in PR for 72 hours and just wanted to get home.

It definitely sounds as though SA told the police that he was holding Chloe outside the window and lost his grip - it is mentioned right away, as soon as the incident happened.
And, to me, it seems that the side-view video backs that statement up.


Monday, 8th July
The 1-year-old daughter of a South Bend police officer died Sunday when authorities say she slipped from her grandfather's hands and fell from a cruise ship docked in Puerto Rico.
Daughter of South Bend police officer fatally falls from cruise ship in Puerto Rico

Wednesday, 10th July
Winkleman has challenged Puerto Rico police’s Monday statement that Chloe apparently slipped from her grandfather’s hands as he was holding her out of an 11th-floor window on the Freedom of the Seas.
Chloe Wiegand's family to return home Thursday

 

[Sulamith]

I realize the video is not very clear but IMO SA's movements seem deliberate. MOO

 

[Kindred]

It definitely sounds as though SA told the police that he was holding Chloe outside the window and lost his grip - it is mentioned right away, as soon as the incident happened.
And, to me, it seems that the side-view video backs that statement up.


Monday, 8th July
The 1-year-old daughter of a South Bend police officer died Sunday when authorities say she slipped from her grandfather's hands and fell from a cruise ship docked in Puerto Rico.
Daughter of South Bend police officer fatally falls from cruise ship in Puerto Rico

Wednesday, 10th July
Winkleman has challenged Puerto Rico police’s Monday statement that Chloe apparently slipped from her grandfather’s hands as he was holding her out of an 11th-floor window on the Freedom of the Seas.
Chloe Wiegand's family to return home Thursday

snipped by me

In a criminal trial, there is nothing that would force SA to testify or be cross-examined. he's perfectly within his legal rights to just sit at his place and make sad faces and let his defense attorney do the talking. But that doesn't carry over to the civil case. And the first thing I would do if I was RC would be to subpoena SA and haul him in for a deposition and put him on the stand as the first witness to answer for why exactly he thought it was a good idea to put her on the railing in the first place. Let's see what his story is when he doesn't have questions his lawyer gave him the answers to

 

[katydid23]

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall
Mr Anello told David Begnaud that he was colourblind and the condition could have contributed to him not realising the window was open when she fell through.

“I was just standing there, and then I just remember screaming that I thought there was glass,” Mr Anello said during the interview.

“Some of the people who’ve been on the boat have written to me and said, ‘David, the windows are tinted, and so it is pretty easy to recognise that it’s open’,” Begnaud said.

“I am colourblind,” Mr Anello said. “I’ve been told that that might be some reason, but I’m not the expert on that.”



Reading his words now, they sound so absurd, and patronising, after seeing the damning video.

 

[SouthAussie]

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall
Mr Anello told David Begnaud that he was colourblind and the condition could have contributed to him not realising the window was open when she fell through.

“I was just standing there, and then I just remember screaming that I thought there was glass,” Mr Anello said during the interview.

“Some of the people who’ve been on the boat have written to me and said, ‘David, the windows are tinted, and so it is pretty easy to recognise that it’s open’,” Begnaud said.

“I am colourblind,” Mr Anello said. “I’ve been told that that might be some reason, but I’m not the expert on that.”



Reading his words now, they sound so absurd, and patronising, after seeing the damning video.

Yeah ... imo he didn't think the window was closed. What it was is that he didn't think he'd lose his grip on his little 20lb granddaughter. And that is where the shock came in.

It will be interesting to hear exactly what it was he was screaming - from witnesses - as opposed to what he now says he was screaming.

 

[IceIce9]

Has anyone seen any comments from the family or attorney since the video has been released? I mean, after their immediate condemnation of the release? Because it seems to me they have been unusually quiet.

 

[they'll get you]

I'm thinking Carpal Tunnel is going to be on this ever increasing list of grandpas ailments.

We could add hemorrhoids and ingrown toenail to the list.

Seeing his interview with his uncontrollable sobbing, covers his face then looks into the camera without a tear makes my blood boil.
How freakin’ embarrassing eh gramps.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Chilling new video of toddler cruise fall
Mr Anello told David Begnaud that he was colourblind and the condition could have contributed to him not realising the window was open when she fell through.

“I was just standing there, and then I just remember screaming that I thought there was glass,” Mr Anello said during the interview.

“Some of the people who’ve been on the boat have written to me and said, ‘David, the windows are tinted, and so it is pretty easy to recognise that it’s open’,” Begnaud said.

“I am colourblind,” Mr Anello said. “I’ve been told that that might be some reason, but I’m not the expert on that.”

Reading his words now, they sound so absurd, and patronising, after seeing the damning video.

"I've been told..."

This has always bugged me, and I'm sure I've mentioned it more than once. It never occurred to SA that his alleged colorblindness had anything to do with not knowing that the window was open. Once a lawyer instructed him to say this, he ran with it, as advised. I don't doubt that SA might be colorblind, but that doesn't have anything to do with his dropping Chloe out an obviously open window.