IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[Bethan]

Five seatbelt violations and two speeding tickets plus one mystery criminal misdemeanor since 1996...he wasn’t exactly known for being safety conscious! Most of us would have made sure to wear a seatbelt after the first infraction in 1996. That says a lot about his judgement IMO.

Continuing & to emphasise your point Lilbet......this suggests to me ( in my opinion) someone who shows a flagrant disregard for the law, which is in place for the health & safety of the driver & of passengers travelling in the same vehicle.

It also suggests to me ( in my opinion) someone who feels he is ‘above the law’ & a person like this (in my opinion) might also feel he was ‘above’ the rules & regulations laid down by the cruise company for the safety of their passengers.

Finally....had I been in a similar situation ( heaven forbid) I would have willingly taken a breathalyser test, to prove beyond doubt that alcohol had not been a factor in this terrible accident.

[ Incidentally here in the UK refusal to take a breathalyser test when requested by the police ( or if unable to give a breath test, a blood/urine sample) would result in arrest & a charge & the penalties for refusing to provide a specimen are steep]

 

[MyBelle]

Cruise ships have so many cameras that they will be able to show everything the grandfather ate and drank from the time he boarded the ship. The truth, whatever it may be, will come out.

That's great. Why hasn't the cruise line turned the video over to the family? The family's attorney was publicly asking for them months ago.

JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

LOOK AT THE COLOR DIFFERENCES between open and closed windows.
Mom was saying in 30 secs of 6 minute interview I watched this am, GP kept saying “I thought there was glass over and over” at time it happened.
If he really believed that, let’s presume he did, then I mentioned in another post just now perhaps he has some type of brain problems. At his age, that could be true. Maybe undiagnosed. Like early dementia. I’m not a Med person by any means, but I’m getting up there in age. And watch myself closely. For signs of mental decline. I’m not afraid to seek medical care for it. Or admit it. But others, I suppose, don’t want to admit problems showing age. Especially, if they continue to work and need the employment.

There were also early claims that Grandpa "lost his balance" and that is why he dropped Chloe. The ship was in port during embarkation. When a cruise ship is tied up to a dock, there is no movement of the vessel. What caused SA to lose his balance? If he hadn't been drinking and lost his balance, that could indicate some type of neurological issue. Balance is a major concerns for patients as they age due to the danger of falls. If there are medical concerns that come into play, that will be a consideration for the jury who hears the case.

 

[IceIce9]

That's great. Why hasn't the cruise line turned the video over to the family? The family's attorney was publicly asking for them months ago.

JMO

The family stated they did not want to view the video.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation in this case.

 

[LietKynes]

Cruise ship death: Charging grandfather of toddler who fell from window "pouring salt" on family's wounds, attorney says - CBS News
"They find it unnecessary and unfair, and it's really pouring salt on the open wounds of this grieving family," said Michael Winkleman, an attorney for the family.
The Weigands say the 18-month-old loved banging on the glass at her brother's hockey games. That's why her grandfather sat her on a wooden rail in front of what he apparently thought was a wall of enclosed glass windows...."
Emph mine

First bolded : No, the cruise line is not pouring any "...salt on their wounds."
The family are doing this to themselves by pursuing the lawsuit.
If they'd accept responsibility for SA's actions this would go away and besides that they need to grieve in privacy and quit running after a settlement. The Wiegand's need to stop doing this.

Second bolded :The video by the excellent member here clearly shows a railing at waist height in front of and a few feet BEFORE the windows; fgs.
Chloe did not fall from the railing. She was lifted up to a window that on some people could've been at chest height !
And this window was clearly visibly open in the day time.
There was no mistake about it's being closed.

The fact that the child couldn't reach the open window without someone lifting her up to it proves the cruise line DID follow the rules and regulations

As well as several other members posting how unsafe it is to let any toddler bang on glass. That's like letting your child run around on a busy highway.
You don't play 'chicken' with children. Imo.

 

[Bethan]

I do believe the parents, siblings and grandparents of the dead child are very much victims. Just because the grandfather has been charged in Puerto Rico doesn't mean he's guilty.

The grandfather looks elderly to me but I sure don't believe he dangled the child out the window playing some kind of game.

JMO

In response to the point most respectfully bolded by me...

a direct quote from NHS England.

“How old is an older person?
Generally, someone over the age of 65 might be considered an older person. However, it is not easy to apply a strict definition because people can biologically age at different rates so, for example, someone aged 75 may be healthier than someone aged 60. Instead of simply age, ‘frailty’ has a bigger impact on their likelihood to require care and support.”

 

[LietKynes]

LOOK AT THE COLOR DIFFERENCES between open and closed windows.
Mom was saying in 30 secs of 6 minute interview I watched this am, GP kept saying “I thought there was glass over and over” at time it happened.
If he really believed that, let’s presume he did, then I mentioned in another post just now perhaps he has some type of brain problems. At his age, that could be true. Maybe undiagnosed. Like early dementia. I’m not a Med person by any means, but I’m getting up there in age. And watch myself closely. For signs of mental decline. I’m not afraid to seek medical care for it. Or admit it. But others, I suppose, don’t want to admit problems showing age. Especially, if they continue to work and need the employment.

Are you referring to the morning talk show interview ?
Imo, mom looked more poised than I would've thought.

About the early dementia --- wonder if SA will claim he's unstable ?
Or if he has dementia --- the Wiegand family shouldn't have tasked him to care for Chloe.

 

[LietKynes]

Continuing & to emphasise your point Lilbet......this suggests to me ( in my opinion) someone who shows a flagrant disregard for the law, which is in place for the health & safety of the driver & of passengers travelling in the same vehicle.

It also suggests to me ( in my opinion) someone who feels he is ‘above the law’ & a person like this (in my opinion) might also feel he was ‘above’ the rules & regulations laid down by the cruise company for the safety of their passengers.

Finally....had I been in a similar situation ( heaven forbid) I would have willingly taken a breathalyser test, to prove beyond doubt that alcohol had not been a factor in this terrible accident.

[ Incidentally here in the UK refusal to take a breathalyser test when requested by the police ( or if unable to give a breath test, a blood/urine sample) would result in arrest & a charge & the penalties for refusing to provide a specimen are steep]

LBM

Wonder what the rules are in PR ?
Currently speaking.
I can check and will provide a link if applicable.

 

[sl222]

The step-grandfather is 51 years old. He is younger than his wife. He has been married to his wife since her daughter was very young, so he has been in the family for a very long time. Seems to be a doting grandparent under normal circumstances. Just FYI. I can't recall where I got all that info as it was months ago. Prayers for each and every person in the family and for little Chloe. I'm posting without having a chance to read all previous posts. My point is that being a grandfather doesn't make a person elderly. And that news reports often make a lot of mistakes (do they ever).

 

[LietKynes]

The step-grandfather is 51 years old. He is younger than his wife. He has been married to his wife since her daughter was very young, so he has been in the family for a very long time. Seems to be a doting grandparent under normal circumstances. Just FYI. I can't recall where I got all that info as it was months ago. Prayers for each and every person in the family and for little Chloe. I'm posting without having a chance to read all previous posts. My point is that being a grandfather doesn't make a person elderly. And that news reports often make a lot of mistakes (do they ever).

LBM

Re. the bolded : Cruise ship death: Charging grandfather of toddler who fell from window "pouring salt" on family's wounds, attorney says - CBS News
"He was extremely hysterical," Kimberly Wiegand said...."
CBS is reporting this as proven fact. Point made.

Was he 'hysterical' ? What did the video show ? Was it faked ?
Don't get me wrong.
It's nice that the parents are defending SA so vigorously.
But it's weird.

From the link :
"People just love him here in the county," said his boss, St. Joseph County auditor Mike Hamann.
Hamann described Anello as a selfless man. "He's got a servant's heart, as we say. And just one of the most wonderful human beings that you could ever meet," Hamann said...."
It's doubtful that this boss, Hamann, would say this if SA dangled and dropped the bosses' baby or grandchild out an 11 story window !
Imo.

 

[Medstudies]

Freedom of the Seas Deck Plans, Diagrams, Pictures, Video

Scroll down and you can see each deck laid out with various photos / vantage points. (Image posted of deck 11 partial layout)

H2O Zone Pictures

anyone having any difficulty in discerning which of the windows are open in the second photo? Buehler?

 

[Lilibet]

Continuing & to emphasise your point Lilbet......this suggests to me ( in my opinion) someone who shows a flagrant disregard for the law, which is in place for the health & safety of the driver & of passengers travelling in the same vehicle.

It also suggests to me ( in my opinion) someone who feels he is ‘above the law’ & a person like this (in my opinion) might also feel he was ‘above’ the rules & regulations laid down by the cruise company for the safety of their passengers.

Finally....had I been in a similar situation ( heaven forbid) I would have willingly taken a breathalyser test, to prove beyond doubt that alcohol had not been a factor in this terrible accident.

[ Incidentally here in the UK refusal to take a breathalyser test when requested by the police ( or if unable to give a breath test, a blood/urine sample) would result in arrest & a charge & the penalties for refusing to provide a specimen are steep]

Yes, what you are describing regarding the multitude of speeding and seatbelt tickets is the definition of “negligence.” It speaks clearly to the grandfather’s attitude toward laws and his character IMO, so it doesn’t surprise me that Puerto Rico LE has looked very closely at what he was doing when Chloe fell, and before.

Here in Oregon, refusal to take a breathalyzer test can result in losing your license for 12 months. The act of driving is considered “implied consent” for a test. However, since the grandfather wasn’t driving, he was probably within his rights to refuse, depending on Puerto Rico laws. But being advised by family to refuse gives the impression (fair or not) that he had, in fact, had something to drink. It may not have been enough to be legally impaired, of course, but breathalyzer tests aren’t always accurate, so I’m not going to read anything into his refusing.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The step-grandfather is 51 years old. He is younger than his wife. He has been married to his wife since her daughter was very young, so he has been in the family for a very long time. Seems to be a doting grandparent under normal circumstances. Just FYI. I can't recall where I got all that info as it was months ago. Prayers for each and every person in the family and for little Chloe. I'm posting without having a chance to read all previous posts. My point is that being a grandfather doesn't make a person elderly. And that news reports often make a lot of mistakes (do they ever).

At the time of the incident, SA was employed full time. I wonder if he has returned to work since the tragic death of his granddaughter?

 

[LietKynes]

< modsnip - quoted post was removed>

As far as the atty. for the Wiegands', I keep thinking from the vanished thread that he was no longer representing them ??
Sure I'd read it somewhere.
Will go and look.

If he didn't watch the video of the dangling death he NEEDS to do so, asap.
As a lawyer he must know if there's a valid case or not ?
And I doubt he wants to lose and look dishonest and foolish to his peers.

I'm curious about the before events and how SA acted afterwards.
It'd be surprising if any lawyer didn't promptly decline to represent them; as the facts show this is not a 'winnable' case.

 

[sl222]

At the time of the incident, SA was employed full time. I wonder if he has returned to work since the tragic death of his granddaughter?

I have wondered the same thing. It must be unbearable to go on either way.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Are you referring to the morning talk show interview ?
Imo, mom looked more poised than I would've thought.

About the early dementia --- wonder if SA will claim he's unstable ?
Or if he has dementia --- the Wiegand family shouldn't have tasked him to care for Chloe.

Fox59 I think. Husband wife and female interviewer. About 6 plus minutes. I stopped at about 30 secs into it.

 

[Lilibet]

I’ve started a conversation with a mod/staff member asking for the old thread(s) to be brought back. I’m not sure that my alerting on a post last night was seen. We really need that info. IIRC there were two threads that were shut down, or one was shut down, brought back and shut down again. Although there was some arguing, we were never warned before the removal, so I suspect other issues were at play since we were almost unanimously against the lawsuit. I know of at least two threads over the years shut down at family request.
JMO

 

[LvsAMystry]

No doubt the grandfather was horrendously negligent, beyond really. Not sure I agree with criminal charges though.

My burning question: would there even be criminal charges if the family weren’t pursuing a liability suit against Royal Caribbean? I don’t think so.

This is so multi-faceted from opinion perspective and tragic on so many levels. I don’t agree with the lawsuit against Royal Caribbean in any way, but I’m on the fence thinking it’s a family looking for a payday from a tragic situation. I can speak from personal experience that in losing someone tragically, particularly a child, it’s really hard not to look for and latch onto something or someone to blame and throw anger at. Probably all the more so when the obvious and reasonable blame really is attached to something or someone even more unthinkable.

Credit to someone many posts ago who said there are no winners here. Understatement indeed.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I’ve started a conversation with a mod/staff member asking for the old thread(s) to be brought back. I’m not sure that my alerting on a post last night was seen. We really need that info. IIRC there were two threads that were shut down, or one was shut down, brought back and shut down again. Although there was some arguing, we were never warned before the removal, so I suspect other issues were at play since we were almost unanimously against the lawsuit. I know of at least two threads over the years shut down at family request.
JMO

Now that there have been criminal charges filed, we should be able to discuss this case based on what is reported by MSM. Even if the previous threads can't be completely resurrected, it would be nice to have a resource thread that includes all of the research, media links, etc. that was done by fabulous Websleuths members.

 

[Lilibet]

Now that there have been criminal charges filed, we should be able to discuss this case based on what is reported by MSM. Even if the previous threads can't be completely resurrected, it would be nice to have a resource thread that includes all of the research, media links, etc. that was done by fabulous Websleuths members.

Excellent idea about having a resource thread.