In her shoes...

[RevCrim]

The first thing that struck me was when KC told the LE that when the nanny wasn't home and she couldn't reach nanny by phone- that she (KC) went to her boyfriends' where she felt "safe". Safe from what? Like uh-m-m Oh yeah- Being caught?

Question is- Why did she worry about feeling "safe"? Wasn't it her child that was in danger? What mother would worry about herself when her child is missing and going through who knows what?

 

[impatientredhead]

Anyone ever hear of a criminal using another crime as an alibi?

Casey could say she was a junkie and owed her dealer $$. The dealer took her daughter. During the 31 days she was planning to rob a bank, or was doing a series of small burglaries.

Or perhaps she was trying to locate someone her dealer told her to assasinate to pay off her debt?

She was playing it cool during the 31 days because she knew the drug dealer had taken other friend's family members- and they all came back unharmed.

She really was working during that 31 days! Oh, and it's the cops fault her daughter is dead because the drug dealer killed her because Casey's incarceration prevented her from paying her debt.


JoAnn_W

Comes back to the same problem she has with the Imaginanny, who is the drug dealer? Name? Associates? Last known address? Phone numbers?

Caylee is dead, there is no reason to protect these people.
The state is looking to kill Casey, she is not protecting them out of self preservation.

Imaginary Drug Dealers are not going to help her anymore than the Imaginary Nanny helped her avoid indictment.

 

[JoAnn_W]

Comes back to the same problem she has with the Imaginanny, who is the drug dealer? Name? Associates? Last known address? Phone numbers?

Caylee is dead, there is no reason to protect these people.
The state is looking to kill Casey, she is not protecting them out of self preservation.

Imaginary Drug Dealers are not going to help her anymore than the Imaginary Nanny helped her avoid indictment.

Oh, that is the beauty of drug dealers/mafia people. They have fake names and addresses and no one knows nothing . She met her dealer at Bar X.

She knew if she coughed them up that her daughter, parents and brother and grandparents would all be killed.

Also, she used the "nanny" excuse for her overbearing mother. She admits to lying, not being a good liar. She tried the nanny story with the detectives, but it all fell apart because she was just a scared mommy junkie afraid to give up the dealer because when she was arrested she thought Caylee was still alive.

She's kept mum about this to everyone but Baez. The prosecution is spending all their time and resources on ripping apart the nanny story- only to be shocked when Baez team readily admit she lied about the nanny.

How am I doing walking in her criminal mind shoes?


JoAnn_W

 

[RR0004]

Oh, that is the beauty of drug dealers/mafia people. They have fake names and addresses and no one knows nothing . She met her dealer at Bar X.

She knew if she coughed them up that her daughter, parents and brother and grandparents would all be killed.

Also, she used the "nanny" excuse for her overbearing mother. She admits to lying, not being a good liar. She tried the nanny story with the detectives, but it all fell apart because she was just a scared mommy junkie afraid to give up the dealer because when she was arrested she thought Caylee was still alive.

She's kept mum about this to everyone but Baez. The prosecution is spending all their time and resources on ripping apart the nanny story- only to be shocked when Baez team readily admit she lied about the nanny.

How am I doing walking in her criminal mind shoes?


JoAnn_W

...ok...but she was out on bail and came up with even another story...she didn't drop Caylee off at the apt....Caylee was taken from her at the park...and she was given a script. You'd think she'd be sticking close to home to assure herself of her family's well-being...but no, she was "hiding out" at JB's office...and rather smugly I might add. How much more convoluted can this get? I dare to ask.

 

[Bforster]

My son was four at the time, we were visiting friends and all the kids were outside playing... The guys were outside too tossing a football around and watching over the grill while all the ladies where getting the rest of the meal together in the house. I had look outside one minute and there was my son with his favorite fire truck playing on the side walk. The next thing I knew all that was left outside was the fire truck on the sidewalk and my son was nowhere to be found! WE all (meaning all six adults) went into search mode (and panic) we tore our friends house upside down and searched the neighborhood, knocked on doors etc... I have never been so frightened in all my life to this very day! Within the hour he was missing we called the police... I did not wait 31 days! The police came right away and began their search and within two hours they found him!! He had crawled up inside some bushes and has hiding!! During the three plus hour ordeal there was not one dry eye for anyone that was there at the time. We thought for sure someone had taken my son and we were all hysterical until he was located! My husband is not a man that cries, he is usually very level headed and even he had tears and was scared to death! I guess my point is that I didn’t want to leave and go anywhere without my son being located, I called every member of my family for help in the search, and the first person I called was my mother!
I do not believe any of KC’s stories... Not the Nanny story at the apartments or the story at the park! When your baby is missing you go into hysterics mode! You can’t function until you know where your child is at… NO WAY would an innocent person not tell a soul that their child was missing no matter what kind of “script” there was. And NO WAY would you not call everyone you knew for help!
I believe that KC is guilty of killing her daughter and tried to cover it up. I do not have any idea at this point how Caylee died but the duct tape send shivers down my spine at the thought of it. I believe that KC left the car at Amscot in hopes that it would be stolen (that’s why she left her purse in the car) which would give her the story that someone stole her car and took her child. But it didn’t work out for her. The rest of the lies where made up in the 31 days it took Cindy to locate her and the whole mess came apart from that point on.

 

[Just Jayla]

You know, I had forgotten about something until recently. When my son was younger (maybe 10?) he was playing at a friend's house. The mom told me she had to leave so to please be back at a certain time. I showed up and nobody was home. I called the mom on her cell phone and she didn't answer. My first thought wasn't that my son had been kidnapped but that one of the kids was hurt and they were all at the hospital. I was about to start calling hospitals, instead I had my husband call her cell and she answered for him :waitasec:

I think she knew I was upset and didn't want to talk to me. :crazy:

OK, so I understand why she would think Caylee was kidnapped if that ridiculous script story was true, but if the original scenario happened wouldn't she be more concerned that Zanny accidentally drove off of the road and they were all at the bottom of a lake or something? HOW would she get the idea that Caylee was kidnapped? There are so many holes in her story. . .

And per KC's own words, "Zanny" had never made any statements to KC that would indicate that she coveted Caylee and wanted to take her for herself.

 

[impatientredhead]

Oh, that is the beauty of drug dealers/mafia people. They have fake names and addresses and no one knows nothing . She met her dealer at Bar X.

She knew if she coughed them up that her daughter, parents and brother and grandparents would all be killed.

Also, she used the "nanny" excuse for her overbearing mother. She admits to lying, not being a good liar. She tried the nanny story with the detectives, but it all fell apart because she was just a scared mommy junkie afraid to give up the dealer because when she was arrested she thought Caylee was still alive.

She's kept mum about this to everyone but Baez. The prosecution is spending all their time and resources on ripping apart the nanny story- only to be shocked when Baez team readily admit she lied about the nanny.

How am I doing walking in her criminal mind shoes?


JoAnn_W

You would still know your dealers street name.
You have to call them somewhere.
You have to pick up your drugs somewhere.
There are other people that run in the same circles that could verify for you that this person actually exists on the planet.

Drug dealers don't stay in business by being unreachable.
They stay out of jail by not selling to informants and not getting caught with drugs on their person. Everyone in the vicinity knows they are dealing.

I assume if anyone in your life told you that their child was gone and that they knew who was responsible you would expect them to know SOMETHING about them. If they told you it was their drug dealer you would want to know how they contacted them.

The invisible drug dealer to me sounds like a genie in a bottle that just appears with the goods and dissappears back into thin air.

I could be wrong but unless she has a dealer to throw under the bus, a real life breathing and bleeding one, it is the same story as the nanny. Just with a change of professions.

 

[Just Jayla]

The only reservation I have about a dealer is that we are dealing with marijuana, not meth or coke (no one, including KC, indicates there were large quantities or meth, coke or heroin being used or purchased).
Marijuana is a drug that is now available medicinally in eleven states (IIRC) and is de-criminalized in several other states (the equivalent of a speeding ticket)...Unless you are dealing in large quantities, marijuana is not something that people typically keep super stealthy under cover. They just buy it from 'Mike' down the street and try to stay as discreet as possible. Further, recreational users typically do not go out of their way to protect their dealers, they just want their pot and will get it where they find it, no biggie. I have a cousin that just lights up in the middle of D.C. out in the open, and never once does he worry about whether his dealer will be in trouble over his stupidity.
Now, if we are talking about elevating this to the level of smuggler, big-time dealing, then it is quite different-guns are typically involved, of course code names are used, and a lot of profit is built in on all levels-meaning KC at least once or twice would have had a nice payday. Yet she had no money to speak of.
Weak argument to me-and I am not even taking into consideration all of the other evidence that counters a drug strategy-I think she was just a toker, and maybe even knew of larger dealers (the guy accross the street from TL), but I don't think she came anywhere close to the top of the tier. From what I understand, guys holding kilos of marijuana don't sell it off by the quarter-They sell it off by the QP or pound. Girlfriend was not known to be holding by any of her friends.

 

[JoAnn_W]

...ok...but she was out on bail and came up with even another story...she didn't drop Caylee off at the apt....Caylee was taken from her at the park...and she was given a script. You'd think she'd be sticking close to home to assure herself of her family's well-being...but no, she was "hiding out" at JB's office...and rather smugly I might add. How much more convoluted can this get? I dare to ask.

At this point Caylee had not been found. Caylee couldn't dime out the real perps. However, she realized her Nanny story was lame- so she tried to tighten it up.

She cops to making up the Zanny story years ago to deal with her overbearing mother. When the detectives were about to get her daughter killed, she had to once again make up Zanny.

However, the detectives were smarter than her mom and her Zanny story had holes in it. She tried to fix the story up to protect her daughter and the rest of her family.

On the other hand- she let Baez know that Zanny was made up and the real story is bad guys she owed money to, had her daughter.

JoAnn_W

 

[Tulessa]

Having NEVER been in her shoes, I honestly don't know HOW I would react but I do know how I WOULDN"T react, and that is smiling at the cameras, strutting my body, flirting with the bondsmen and trying to capture all of the Medias attention...........

 

[ZsaZsa]

Picture this- your little girl is missing, you have no idea if she is still alive, you know you are innocent of causing her any harm- but the incompetent local Police are out to get you, frame you, so they arrest you and prepare to take you to jail.
Could anything on earth cause you more worry than this scenario? A waking nightmare, huh?
They walk you out, in handcuffs, open the door and Press/TV Cameras are there- what do you do?
You smile at the camera, and smirk,because you find the whole thing amusing.
If you are Casey that's exactly what you do. Students of body language need look no further..

 

[JoAnn_W]

The only reservation I have about a dealer is that we are dealing with marijuana, not meth or coke (no one, including KC, indicates there were large quantities or meth, coke or heroin being used or purchased).
Marijuana is a drug that is now available medicinally in eleven states (IIRC) and is de-criminalized in several other states (the equivalent of a speeding ticket)...Unless you are dealing in large quantities, marijuana is not something that people typically keep super stealthy under cover. They just buy it from 'Mike' down the street and try to stay as discreet as possible. Further, recreational users typically do not go out of their way to protect their dealers, they just want their pot and will get it where they find it, no biggie. I have a cousin that just lights up in the middle of D.C. out in the open, and never once does he worry about whether his dealer will be in trouble over his stupidity.
Now, if we are talking about elevating this to the level of smuggler, big-time dealing, then it is quite different-guns are typically involved, of course code names are used, and a lot of profit is built in on all levels-meaning KC at least once or twice would have had a nice payday. Yet she had no money to speak of.
Weak argument to me-and I am not even taking into consideration all of the other evidence that counters a drug strategy-I think she was just a toker, and maybe even knew of larger dealers (the guy accross the street from TL), but I don't think she came anywhere close to the top of the tier. From what I understand, guys holding kilos of marijuana don't sell it off by the quarter-They sell it off by the QP or pound. Girlfriend was not known to be holding by any of her friends.

Actually pot dealers can be ruthless- have you heard about the Mexican drug wars?

JoAnn_W

 

[JoAnn_W]

You would still know your dealers street name.
You have to call them somewhere.
You have to pick up your drugs somewhere.
There are other people that run in the same circles that could verify for you that this person actually exists on the planet.

Drug dealers don't stay in business by being unreachable.
They stay out of jail by not selling to informants and not getting caught with drugs on their person. Everyone in the vicinity knows they are dealing.

I assume if anyone in your life told you that their child was gone and that they knew who was responsible you would expect them to know SOMETHING about them. If they told you it was their drug dealer you would want to know how they contacted them.

The invisible drug dealer to me sounds like a genie in a bottle that just appears with the goods and dissappears back into thin air.

I could be wrong but unless she has a dealer to throw under the bus, a real life breathing and bleeding one, it is the same story as the nanny. Just with a change of professions.

Okay, the drug dealer is actually another lie- aka her defense.

She doesn't have to know or cough up anything.

Baez will put it out there that yes, Zanny is a lie. The Zanny character originated from when Casey had to shut up her overbearing mother. That part is probably very true.

Now, when Casey had to protect her daughter, poor Casey isn't really that good of a liar- she just used her old standby- Zanny.

So: Yes, yes, yes! You caught her. Zanny is a big lie. The real perp is a bad guy who would kill Caylee and then her parents and brother and grandparents, etc.

Casey was in jail when Caylee was found. At that point she no longer had to protect the bad guys. However, she also was under no obligation to hold a press conference and announce the real story.

JoAnn_W

 

[Jenny60123]

At this point Caylee had not been found. Caylee couldn't dime out the real perps. However, she realized her Nanny story was lame- so she tried to tighten it up.

She cops to making up the Zanny story years ago to deal with her overbearing mother. When the detectives were about to get her daughter killed, she had to once again make up Zanny.

However, the detectives were smarter than her mom and her Zanny story had holes in it. She tried to fix the story up to protect her daughter and the rest of her family.

On the other hand- she let Baez know that Zanny was made up and the real story is bad guys she owed money to, had her daughter.

JoAnn_W

I do appreciate your thinking outside the box. I just can't picture anyone other than Casey who would of put that heart sticker on that duct tape. No drug dealer is going to bother with something like that.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

I realize everyone reacts differently to tragedy and loss. I've always been one to try and put myself in someone else's shoes and try and figure out how I would react in their position.

Obviously, there has been many discussions as to how KC reacted and the how this would differ from any "normal" mother. Much of her guilt is present simply through her actions and reactions.

I thought it would be interesting to see how others feel they would react in her position - with the assumption she is innnocent (I know that is hard!).

I have four kids, so I would in some cases react differently than a parent with one child (because my other children would still need me). But assuming I had one child and I lost her, here is my best guess as to how I would respond to various situations:


** For some reason, I have waited 30 days to report my daughter missing, I'm finally on the phone with the police getting help - I would cry, fall to my knees, no one would probably understand a word I said. My daughter is gone

** LE and everyone is pointing the finger at me. Maybe I'm Schizophrenic, maybe im a psycopath with amnesia. I would question my own innocence and sanity. My daughter is gone

** Do I get an attorney? No, those that have the most chance of finding my daughter are right in front of me. My daughter is gone

** Will I take a lie detector test? I would test cyanide if I thought it would help. My daughter is gone

** I'm in jail, I have some money on my books. Would I buy snackes? I would donate it to any charity or cause that could help in the search. My daughter is gone

** My brother is visiting me. Do I speak in code? Why would I? My daughter is gone

** My parents are here. Do I complain about my situation? NO. My daughter is gone

** Someone tells a joke. Something good happens to me. I would not smile nor laugh again. My daughter is gone

** The state persues the death penalty. Kill me now. My daughter is gone

I can do the "in her shoes" bit too, but in mine I propose that KC knows Caylee is dead (as opposed to missing). I propose that (as KC) I am NOT "normal" in my reactions to stressful situations, based on things we already know. Now:

***Because my daughter is gone (and I mean really gone) why bother calling 911-it is too late for that-there is nothing they can do

***Because my daughter is gone (and on my watch) my life as I know it is OVER

***I shut down completely, dissociate from what just happened, and put my daughter in a little box in my mind where she is off at the beach with her nanny...forever

***I know that it won't be long before the world perched on my shoulder collapses...but then it doesn't...I wait...expecting the worst everyday...but the worst has already come and gone and the world just weighs a lot but never drops...I have to shift it around now and again, but its still up there...

***31 days later, the call comes in, but what does it matter, my daughter is gone, nothing they say or do will bring her back, so it must be their fault!

***Nobody cared for all of those 31 days and NOW they all want ME gone too! I am angry and bitter and not only is my daughter gone, but I'm losing everthing else I had as well, including the new reality I just dreamed up for myself. Why would I do ANYTHING to bring peace or closure to these people, when I have none for myself.

IDK-that's just how I see her operating...

 

[JoAnn_W]

I do appreciate your thinking outside the box. I just can't picture anyone other than Casey who would of put that heart sticker on that duct tape. No drug dealer is going to bother with something like that.

She sent that heart sticker to Caylee when she met with the bad guys and promised to assasinate (rob a bank, make a delivery, etc.) someone for them "with love from mommy- see you soon." Those bad guys are cruel in that they took that sticker and placed it there to send a message to Casey.

Oh no- I think I'm in a psychopath's shoes!


JoAnn_W

 

[RR0004]

At this point Caylee had not been found. Caylee couldn't dime out the real perps. However, she realized her Nanny story was lame- so she tried to tighten it up.

She cops to making up the Zanny story years ago to deal with her overbearing mother. When the detectives were about to get her daughter killed, she had to once again make up Zanny.

However, the detectives were smarter than her mom and her Zanny story had holes in it. She tried to fix the story up to protect her daughter and the rest of her family.

On the other hand- she let Baez know that Zanny was made up and the real story is bad guys she owed money to, had her daughter.

JoAnn_W

Gotcha...I guess as good a story as any. So Casey "borrowed" money? That's a new one.

 

[RR0004]

She sent that heart sticker to Caylee when she met with the bad guys and promised to assasinate (rob a bank, make a delivery, etc.) someone for them "with love from mommy- see you soon." Those bad guys are cruel in that they took that sticker and placed it there to send a message to Casey.

Oh no- I think I'm in a psychopath's shoes!


JoAnn_W

Nah...but it would make for a good tv movie. lol

 

[RR0004]

Okay, the drug dealer is actually another lie- aka her defense.

She doesn't have to know or cough up anything.

Baez will put it out there that yes, Zanny is a lie. The Zanny character originated from when Casey had to shut up her overbearing mother. That part is probably very true.

Now, when Casey had to protect her daughter, poor Casey isn't really that good of a liar- she just used her old standby- Zanny.

So: Yes, yes, yes! You caught her. Zanny is a big lie. The real perp is a bad guy who would kill Caylee and then her parents and brother and grandparents, etc.

Casey was in jail when Caylee was found. At that point she no longer had to protect the bad guys. However, she also was under no obligation to hold a press conference and announce the real story.

JoAnn_W

...and she is now sitting in jail for well over a year for what reason?

 

[pistolina]

I have lost my daughter in our house a few times but the one I will never forget is when she was about 18 months old. I heard noises coming from her bedroom after I had put her to bed. I went to check on her. I stood at the door and looked in but saw nothing unusual. A few minutes went by and I heard more noises. Again I checked, nothing. About an hour later I checked a final time before I went to bed. I walked into her dark room and as I got closer to the bed I could see it was full of stuffed animals and blankets. I pull the first few animals off the bed expecting to find her underneath but I didn’t. I started to panic as I am now throwing animals and blankets off the bed. When get to the bottom and I see she is not there I started tearing the room apart, even looking under the dresser (which is only about 3 inches from the ground). I was about to start screaming for my husband when something told me to turn around. When I did - I found her – asleep on top of her changing table. I can only assume that the noises I kept hearing were her getting on to the table but since the changing table is behind the door I didn’t see her when I looked in (not to mention the decoys she had filled her bed with). The next day after work I took the changing table out of her room and put it into storage. I think from the time I first started looking for her until I found her maybe 2 minutes had past. My heart was already pounding so loud I could hardly breathe and I was ready to call for help. 2 minutes!
I think in order to put yourself in Casey’s shoes you have to be able always put yourself first. If my first thought had been,“You know it’s late and I have to work tomorrow. If I get a chance I’ll look for her 1st thing in the morning.” Then maybe I could put myself in Casey’s shoes but I couldn’t/can’t/won’t ever be able to do that. I barely made it 2 minutes; I’d never make it 31 days.