Found Deceased IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

[thinkitover]

Welcome to WS BTW. Not sure if you had a welcome or not. I may have been too busy discussing choc chip and digestive biscuits at the time. The logo couldnt be SDC as well could it? Like was suggested for his bum bag logo a page or so back? I can't distinguish it very well on my mobile unfortunately.

Shiressleuth,
Thank you for welcoming me. I enjoyed the choc chip digestive biscuit. I thought it was a can of chewing tobacco.

 

[thinkitover]

Ixchel13,
I need to study further to see if I can see what you do. Thanks for your response!

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Been gone for a bit. Partly due to needing a break, but also got a lot of tasks done around the house. So sad to read that this case hasn't been cracked yet

 

[thinkitover]

Websight,
Thank you for the welcome! Here is the full length edited photo.
I appreciate your in depth illustration. I agree it looks like that has to be his arm down by his side so it makes sense that his hand would be in his pocket. It is just so odd to me how it looks like a hand or possibly gloved hand since it is large. Usually when I use this technique on most photos it just brings out details hidden in the shadows. But I am used to high resolution images taken by professional photographers, not video stills. If that is a transmission error, I have learned something new.

 

[thinkitover]

I'm in agreement with Nin's assessment.

If that is his hand up near his face then I would suggest he is quite adept at crossing that rickety bridge with not only his hand in his pants pocket, but the other in an upward position at his face. That alone gives me pause. Also, the 'hand' looks extremely large when you compare it scale-wise.

Bird of Paradise,

Thank you for responding. I enjoy your posts.

 

[No it's not]

I thought he might be adjusting his hat or hoody if it had blown down or holding it down if it was windy up on the bridge. Nin thinks it is a transmission error but I don't know what that means.
Nin - please could you explain? Could it still be his hand and a "transmission" error ?

A transmission error causes data error. I am not familiar enough with videos and bitstream compression. Perhaps Billy Mabou can chime in and clarify. I think what we are looking at - POI-BG's left side of the face- is a "ghost image" area caused by bitstream error. "Ghost image", because the application is trying to fill-in the area with something until new information is correctly decoded.

When you open up the image in an editing program and play with the tone/ contrast, you may see a thin layer starting at the left face and going down the left side ( his left side) of the jacket.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Websight,
Thank you for the welcome! Here is the full length edited photo.
I appreciate your in depth illustration. I agree it looks like that has to be his arm down by his side so it makes sense that his hand would be in his pocket. It is just so odd to me how it looks like a hand or possibly gloved hand since it is large. Usually when I use this technique on most photos it just brings out details hidden in the shadows. But I am used to high resolution images taken by professional photographers, not video stills. If that is a transmission error, I have learned something new.

BBM

You and me both. Never heard of compression artifacts or transmission errors so this has been an educational thread for me.

 

[Billy Mabou]

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think what we're seeing is low colour resolution pushed to the limit. There are a limited amount of colour shades in this image (compression!) and pushing the contrast like this is making it more obvious by stretching these shades to their extremes. Also, video compression tends favour well-exposed areas of the picture, or areas with sharper detail. The shadow detail is sometimes tossed away so more information can be squeezed into the 'areas of interest.' So if you crank up these shadow areas, you'll sometimes just see blocks and blobs.

This is just a guess and I bet Michael can explain the science of this MUCH better than I did!

A transmission error causes data error. I am not familiar enough with videos and bitstream compression. Perhaps Billy Mabou can chime in and clarify. I think what we are looking at - POI-BG's left side of the face- is a "ghost image" area caused by bitstream error. "Ghost image", because the application is trying to fill-in the area with something until new information is correctly decoded.

When you open up the image in an editing program and play with the tone/ contrast, you may see a thin layer starting at the left face and going down the left side ( his left side) of the jacket.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[thinkitover]

Hi Billy Mabou,
Thanks for your thoughtful answer. I am wondering if when attempting to fill in the area with the transmission error if prior frame data from that exact space could be used to fill in since that was already in place? Like when a screen is redrawing itself and gets stuck?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Websight,
Thank you for the welcome! Here is the full length edited photo.
I appreciate your in depth illustration. I agree it looks like that has to be his arm down by his side so it makes sense that his hand would be in his pocket. It is just so odd to me how it looks like a hand or possibly gloved hand since it is large. Usually when I use this technique on most photos it just brings out details hidden in the shadows. But I am used to high resolution images taken by professional photographers, not video stills. If that is a transmission error, I have learned something new.

View attachment 117199

If you look at the bum bag which some posters think is a hand, it is a very similar size and colour to this shape at the left side of his head that some think is a hand too. Now, would it be possible that this is showing both his left hand in his pocket and up pulling his hat peak down at the same time because it is a mixture of two frames?

Either that or he's got a bum bag on his face.

 

[thinkitover]

If you look at the bum bag which some posters think is a hand, it is a very similar size and colour to this shape at the left side of his head that some think is a hand too. Now, would it be possible that this is showing both his left hand in his pocket and up pulling his hat peak down at the same time because it is a mixture of two frames?

Either that or he's got a bum bag on his face.

Shiressleuth,

Some sort of accidental blend of two frames is starting to make sense to me. I cannot "unsee" the hand. No it makes no sense in that position given that the arm is by his side. I may just have to accept that I don't have a definitive answer right now. But I like your idea.

I am looking at the "0" logo on the hat and wondering if it could help identifying BG. Does anyone know what it could be?

 

[Confusion]

To me the light area on the left side of his face looks like someone used the dodge tool on it and messed up. MOO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Does this help~~Yes your are correct NIN~~the foot is facing to the right.

For those who do not see the sole of the shoe (it is white and blends into the background) I've underlined it in Nin's picture.

Now, for what the black thing might be. I have a suggestion. Could it be a motorcycle or bicycle pant's protector that is just really low?

http://road.cc/content/review/209909-deuter-pants-protector

The top picture looks like a hightop Converse shoe with the white shoe lace wrapped around the upper part of the hightop. It's strange because I don't think that's what BG is wearing and this is the only picture where that's what I see.

 

[coastal]

The top picture looks like a hightop Converse shoe with the white shoe lace wrapped around the upper part of the hightop. It's strange because I don't think that's what BG is wearing and this is the only picture where that's what I see.

I see these Vans: https://www.vans.com/shop/checkerboard-slip-on-black-pewter-check

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Shiressleuth,

Some sort of accidental blend of two frames is starting to make sense to me. I cannot "unsee" the hand. No it makes no sense in that position given that the arm is by his side. I may just have to accept that I don't have a definitive answer right now. But I like your idea.

I am looking at the "0" logo on the hat and wondering if it could help identifying BG. Does anyone know what it could be?

View attachment 117219

I think BG wasn't that stupid wearing a cap with a big logo (although I would hope he made a mistake! lease: ). For now I only found this below:



Oracles / Delphi Basketball

BUT:
1. The "O" on the cap seems too big in relation to the cap size.
2. One doesn't see a dark background (only the light "O").
3. The pics we have seen before( before the 3rd pic came up) always showed a rather darker brown part of the cap at the same place.


So, I don't know what we see at all .....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I see these Vans: https://www.vans.com/shop/checkerboard-slip-on-black-pewter-check
View attachment 117221

The type of shoe may fit (NO hiker boot or similar) while I don't see something checkered, I don't see a white shoe lace bound around and I don't see a white sole. I'm seeing a lighter shoe (like summer shoe or training shoe), maybe anthracite or black or brown (depends on pic) with a light coloured stripe around on the shoe front part (NOT around the ankle).
I see BG turning his right foot slightly inwards when the step ends. Never saw him stepping outwards. Therefore I sometime ago mentioned I see him as he could be a hobby footballer (leg sporty holding as if he is going to kick a ball).
Btw: I don't understand why others are seeing an injury or disability to his leg/legs. Perhaps someone might explain more specifically? I'm very interested in that point of considerations ... TIA.

All IMO MOO of course!
I like to read your opinions! I for my part soon will dream of shoesSHOESshoesSHOESshoes - never searched as many shoes as recently and never found the right ones, unfortunately.

 

[thinkitover]

I think BG wasn't that stupid wearing a cap with a big logo (although I would hope he made a mistake! lease: ). For now I only found this below:

Oracles / Delphi Basketball

BUT:
1. The "O" on the cap seems too big in relation to the cap size.
2. One doesn't see a dark background (only the light "O").
3. The pics we have seen before( before the 3rd pic came up) always showed a rather darker brown part of the cap at the same place.


So, I don't know what we see at all .....

From Germany,

Exactly what I was looking for! May be some local type cap easily found in gas stations. I agree with your list. Every piece I run across leads to more questions.

Thanks for finding this!

 

[Billy Mabou]

I think that is definitely possible. I've seen that happen in the past due to encoding errors or motion blur.

Did you see Websight's work on this area? I think this was the frame where it looked like the face was distorted (probably due to rolling shutter, where separate areas of the frame are exposed at different points in time, leading to warped lines, missing data and all kinds of weirdness). Website cut out a portion and moved it into place so the face looked much more natural. Interesting that you're looking at the same area.

Hi Billy Mabou,
Thanks for your thoughtful answer. I am wondering if when attempting to fill in the area with the transmission error if prior frame data from that exact space could be used to fill in since that was already in place? Like when a screen is redrawing itself and gets stuck?

 

[thinkitover]

I think that is definitely possible. I've seen that happen in the past due to encoding errors or motion blur.

Did you see Websight's work on this area? I think this was the frame where it looked like the face was distorted (probably due to rolling shutter, where separate areas of the frame are exposed at different points in time, leading to warped lines, missing data and all kinds of weirdness). Website cut out a portion and moved it into place so the face looked much more natural. Interesting that you're looking at the same area.

Billy Mabou,
I found a post with the right side of the face duplicated and flipped over the left side. Is that the one you are referencing? Was Websight's post earlier in this in this thread? I want to make sure I am looking at the same one. Still learning my way around here.

I appreciate your opinion. Thanks so much!

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Nin~~Any chance you could zoom in on this area of his arm? It looks to me like he could have a patch of some sort there.