IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

[elmomom]

ok, I know some people think "the cameras"! But let me give you what I have thought on it. There are no cameras at the intersection of 11 and College. She turns on College - remember it's 4:30 AM with little or no traffic- and almost immediately crosses College Ave to the East side. She's not headed home, she's headed to JR's which is south to 9th and quite a few blocks east from what I recall. She now can walk the entire distance to JW's without running into one camera, depending where she starts heading east. So please don't think it would be impossible.

 

[Lilcheese]

Not off-topic at all. Interesting.

I have a friend who was into coke for awhile. While I never tried it myself. I have seen the effects. I could imagine someone hopped up on coke thinking they could get away with just about ANYTHING. My very reserved friend would quickly turn into an arrogant, boisterous person who believed himself to be the smartest person ever born.

The issue lies in the reports/rumors because coke has a drastically different affect than say, alcohol or pot. Coke will lead to mental alterness, increased energy, and the like. Alcohol and pot, or Valium/Xanax/or a prescription pain killer, would get you that doped out affect that have been rumored about LS. If she was incoherent/stumbling it was likely a combo of two downers; not coke.

I would go ahead and assume IF drugs were involved it was likely xanax, vicodin, or oxy. All three are pretty popular among the higher-income students in college today.

The other possibility is that she finally "crashed". The cocaine crash, as I've been told is probably one of the worst out there. That might affect her in a dopey way, but she'd like just want to go to sleep if that was the case. They are also more popular with those who don't want to be involved with "real" drugs. They assume, for some illogical reason, that because they are "prescription" that they are safe. Weird, but logical to a college kid, for some reason.

 

[bunnyesq.]

Question for SmoothOperator - (or anyone else!)

Could she have turned towards JW's from where JR last saw her? Or would that route not make sense/have caught her on cam?

Sorry, I'm sure this has been discussed, I'm terrible with directions, even looking at a map.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

SmoothOperator's post re the Cams aligns with my understanding that has long informed my take on the case. If it's true that LS turned onto College from 11th, it appears she didn't make it to 10th, whether that's due to o.d./heart attack, abduction, wandering into the street, being taken into the empty lot, or something else. All certainly possible, but...

However. We don't know how often the cameras on 10th St refresh, so in the absence of that knowledge, one can't rule out the possibility she did make it down the street.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Where is this mentioned? (that no one in the frat likes JR)

As I've said previously, I'd rather not reveal either the forum or who I believe (I think I can say reliably) to be the source. Take it with at least a grain of salt if you do not already.

 

[bessie]

When it comes to the guys though, here's another angle. While it lasts, coke makes you think you rule the world. Confidence spikes and the brain floods with ideas (not necessarily good ones, but IDEAS MAN!). It is also known to cause paranoia, especially after repeated use. If you're high on coke and someone dies, you just might be more likely than normal to think you can pull off a crime. At the very least, coke would add intensity to such a situation.

Sorry if that's all off-topic - but it seems we're digging for anything at this point.

Makes sense.

I keep thinking about why Lauren would leave JR's apartment to walk home alone at 4:30 am. Some have said it's not an uncommon occurence, and that might be true. Still, thinking back to when I was that age, and what might have induced me to take the same risk, two reasons come to mind: I was in a bad situation and wanted to escape; or, I felt a strong need to be somewhere else, or to be with someone else. From what we know of the circumstances in Lauren's case, it could have been either of the two.

So, was JR giving her a hard time, forcing her to run out into the street where she was abducted by a stranger? Or, did she leave to be with JW, who was incensed over her actions earlier in the night and became violent? I just don't know enough about the character of either of the young men to decide which scenario is the most likely to be true.

 

[JeannaT]

SmoothOperator's post re the Cams aligns with my understanding that has long informed my take on the case. If it's true that LS turned onto College from 11th, it appears she didn't make it to 10th, whether that's due to o.d./heart attack, abduction, wandering into the street, being taken into the empty lot, or something else. All certainly possible, but...

However. We don't know how often the cameras on 10th St refresh, so in the absence of that knowledge, one can't rule out the possibility she did make it down the street.

I don't think they're still picture cameras, are they? I thought they were streaming video cameras, and that's how they saw that the white truck didn't stop at the stop sign.

 

[carriepdx]

She turns on College - remember it's 4:30 AM with little or no traffic- and almost immediately crosses College Ave to the East side. She's not headed home, she's headed to JR's which is south to 9th and quite a few blocks east from what I recall. She now can walk the entire distance to JW's without running into one camera, depending where she starts heading east.

snipped by me

The same thought occurred to me.

 

[porchpile]

As I've said previously, I'd rather not reveal either the forum or who I believe (I think I can say reliably) to be the source. Take it with at least a grain of salt if you do not already.

I don't think it's helpful to introduce information that you refuse to source.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Regarding drug use, I have read it alleged that LS was on, as elmomom theorized, a common CNS suppressant, which was not necessarily out of character, but to a (substantially?) greater degree than normal, as well as on a stimulant, which may have been out of character for her in kind and very likely in degree. I have read more than one allegation or acknowledgment that JR was likely on a stimulant and that this was not out of character, but also a reasonable degree of uncertainty if not skepticism that his involvement with said stimulant extended beyond use (which contravenes, somewhat, my working theory of the case). As above, take all of this with at least a grain of salt.

 

[elmomom]

SmoothOperator's post re the Cams aligns with my understanding that has long informed my take on the case. If it's true that LS turned onto College from 11th, it appears she didn't make it to 10th, whether that's due to o.d./heart attack, abduction, wandering into the street, being taken into the empty lot, or something else. All certainly possible, but...

However. We don't know how often the cameras on 10th St refresh, so in the absence of that knowledge, one can't rule out the possibility she did make it down the street.

unless she crossed over College where there were no cameras. Cannot be ruled out.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I don't think they're still picture cameras, are they? I thought they were streaming video cameras, and that's how they saw that the white truck didn't stop at the stop sign.

There are many cameras at issue, and the one that shot the white truck was not on College Ave. I do not know whether any given camera is streaming or not. It may be a good assumption that they are, but I don't know that it's a safe one.

 

[Jupiter812]

ok, I know some people think "the cameras"! But let me give you what I have thought on it. There are no cameras at the intersection of 11 and College. She turns on College - remember it's 4:30 AM with little or no traffic- and almost immediately crosses College Ave to the East side. She's not headed home, she's headed to JR's which is south to 9th and quite a few blocks east from what I recall. She now can walk the entire distance to JW's without running into one camera, depending where she starts heading east. So please don't think it would be impossible.

I don't see that at all. Turn a corner to cross the street? Nah. Also, since she lives on the west side of College she's comfortable on that side of the street.

 

[SmoothOperator]

1* Last seen by JR rounding this corner of 11th/College

2* First surveillance cam half block from JR seeing her make the corner of 11th/College

3* Second surveillance cam one block from JR seeing her make the corner of 11th/College

Lauren not being seen on 2* or 3*, nor eyewitness' to have seen her at Waffle House on opposite corner of cam3*..

That leaves the few feet of distance and time that is between 1* and 2*.. abduction would have had to occur in that tiny amt of time within those few feet of distance that there is between 1* and 2*..

I'll have to look at google or bing maps when I'm available to because I'd like to measure exactly just how small of a distance there truly is between this half block of where Lauren was last seen by JR(1*) and where she was not seen on surveillance video at first cam(2*)..

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I think it's entirely reasonable to see someone turn a corner to cross the street - the most direct route across the street is diagonally. But she did not live across the street. If she did cross, it was presumably due to walking erratically (inconsistent with JR's story) or heading somewhere besides Smallwood.

 

[elmomom]

Makes sense.

I keep thinking about why Lauren would leave JR's apartment to walk home alone at 4:30 am.
<snip>
So, was JR giving her a hard time, forcing her to run out into the street where she was abducted by a stranger? Or, did she leave to be with JW, who was incensed over her actions earlier in the night and became violent? I just don't know enough about the character of either of the young men to decide which scenario is the most likely to be true.

I agree, I would leave, alone, at 4:30 if I was somewhat impaired and unhappy with the type of attention I was getting from a male (or multiple males). JR and LS knew each other a long time, so if he was making undesired advances it most likely would have made LS feel very uncomfortable. First she calls a mutual friend (DR). No help. then she has to leave. She goes to JW's in my mind. Does she get there? Who knows.
can totally see this happening. Not my primary theory but an extremely possible one.

 

[mrsu]

^above^ I have circled and labeled 2 "CAMS" in lime green that IMO the direction of both of these cams would be toward College St. Which as we know was Lauren's supposed path back to her apt at Smallwood.. The first cam would literally be half a block from where JR's states he last saw LS round the corner at 11th/College St.. The first cam would be at 1/2 block and the second cam would be at 1 block from her rounding the corner.. The second cam is located at 10th/College Ave..

For me that really narrows things down tO the absolute nitty gritty.. According to JR he watched her turn the corner of 11th/College Ave.. Literally within feet of the next cam literally half a block towards Smallwood.. She is not seen there.. Nor to our knowledge is anything suspicious caught on that cam.. Then another half block there is a second cam at the corner of 10th/College Ave.. Lauren is not seen there nor to our knowledge is any other suspicious person or activity..

Do you guys realize that literally leaves a few feet(half block to first cam)that Lauren would have had to have been abducted.. With nothing suspicious showing on that cam just feet from where Jay says he watched her turn that corner..

This IMO now clearly seen with my own eyes the few feet that Lauren would have had to have been abducted within and with NOTHING OF SUSPICION TO INDICATE anything nefarious taking place to LS on a cam a few feet from where Jay last saw her.. IMO it is IMPOSSIBLE!!

Absolutely no way that within those very few feet which literally would have been 60 secs or less of time it took to walk from where Jay last saw her to the view of the cam a half block ahead.. 60secs and a few feet are all we are talking for as the amt of time and the short distance that this would have had to have been done in.. It is impossible..

The ? I have at the opposite corner of 10th/College is where the Waffle House is where there is also no testimony to any worker or patron having seen Lauren either on her short walk home..

This IMO pretty much says it all as far as what is the likelihood that she made this walk and was abducted in that 60secs within those very few feet.. Again IMO impossible..

** as far as the direction of the circled cams.. Where else would the cams be pointed?? IMO there is no other direction or area those cams would have been pointed except to surveille the front of the 10th/College Apts that runs along College Ave..

As I said this now seen with my own eyes is absolutely HUGE FOR ME!!! jmo, tho!

The cams are not pointed to College St. If you reference Btown's camera pics, both of these cameras are mounted under an overhang and capture a walkway with doors to different businesses, but they do not appear to capture anything on College St. sidewalk. Especially in the dark.

ETA: Images 9 & 10 in this post show one of the cameras. There is also one at the other end, pointing in the opposite direction. It would be really hard to capture anything on the sidewalk, especially in the dark. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6679900&postcount=4"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 *PHOTOS & MAPS*[/ame]

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

2* First surveillance cam half block from JR seeing her make the corner of 11th/College

3* Second surveillance cam one block from JR seeing her make the corner of 11th/College

Lauren not being seen on 2* or 3*, nor eyewitness' to have seen her at Waffle House on opposite corner of cam3*..

That leaves the few feet of distance and time that is between 1* and 2*..

I think you're making some huge leaps in assuming what these cameras see. Many of the street cameras are pointed down at the sidewalk and may not see very far up the street. I think it's entirely possible she turned the corner and perhaps proceeded as much as a quarter if not most or all of the way down College (in the absence of any certain knowledge where the mid-block and perhaps the end-block cameras are fixed or point) without being captured on cam.

 

[elmomom]

I don't see that at all. Turn a corner to cross the street? Nah. Also, since she lives on the west side of College she's comfortable on that side of the street.

Totally disagree. Half my life I was a pedestrian in NYC. Believe me, you cross at a whim if you are ultimately headed in that direction, especially at times where there is little or no traffic. You may wish to change to the other side if you think the lighting may be better, the surface is better (remember she is supposedly barefoot) - someone is on the block up ahead that makes you uncomfortable etc, etc, etc. So many reasons cause you to cross at a particular time, I couldn't imagine listing them all.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Regarding drug use, I have read it alleged that LS was on, as elmomom theorized, a common CNS suppressant, which was not necessarily out of character, but to a (substantially?) greater degree than normal, as well as on a stimulant, which may have been out of character for her in kind and very likely in degree. I have read more than one allegation or acknowledgment that JR was likely on a stimulant and that this was not out of character, but also a reasonable degree of uncertainty if not skepticism that his involvement with said stimulant extended beyond use (which contravenes, somewhat, my working theory of the case). As above, take all of this with at least a grain of salt.

You are saying all of this about Lauren and have nothing to back it up?She is the victim here.We know she was messed up that night.How would you know,she is on all these different drugs?Maybe someone slipped her something.I could tell you ten different stories would you believe them?