IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

[SmoothOperator]

Re: post about what if Lauren after having turned the corner of 11th/College where JR states he last had visual of her.. If then instead of going to Smallwood she instead would have turned and gone toward JW's(which if I believed Lauren truly made this walk I definitely could see her deciding to go to JWs especially given the fact we know she had no keys no card to slide to enter and use elevators at Smallwood).. But if Lauren had chosen to do this, if you again refer back to btown's awesome map, she would have been for certain picked up on the MANY cams that would be on the path to JW's. No matter how she chose to get there she'd have been on multiple surveillance video..

 

[elmomom]

Somewhere awhile back I clearly wrote out how and when I think it possible that both she and CR may have been drugged. Not that I believe it but it's possible. Everything is in play. Maybe she wasn't impaired, but heck, she's got no shoes, no keys, no purse, no cell phone. I think that is enough for me to think she was pretty impaired. What the substances were is speculation.

 

[jennyb629]

I can imagine doing the same thing in his shoes. If I had given up hope that the person I loved would be found alive, I would not want to be the one searching and chance finding her body. If I thought people suspected me of being responsible, I would not want to be the one searching and chance finding her body and being accused of removing evidence. If I thought my so-called friends had anything to do with her death, or covering up her death, I would stop trusting them, and I would be left feeling alone and betrayed in a city that no longer felt very friendly. My instinct, at that point, would be to go home to be with mom and dad and friends I still trusted, and curl into a ball and cry.

I agree with you and it is incredibly hard to put ourselves in that position but I'm sorry, I still find it selfish to leave her family and friends there searching for her, desperate, aching, distraught and to go back home and be comforted. Yes, her bf does need the comfort of his family and being at home, away from a terrible situation. However, think about LS's parents and what they are going through. I'm sure they would love to not have to get up every day and search in vain for their daughter but that is what they have to do. It is the reality of the situation and, in my mind, it is what someone who truly loves her and is sick with worry about finding her would do.

 

[Jupiter812]

Got it. And I understand the pedestrian traffic habit generally, I just don't see LS doing this for the reasons I stated.

 

[mamamia54]

Re: post about what if Lauren after having turned the corner of 11th/College where JR states he last had visual of her.. If then instead of going to Smallwood she instead would have turned and gone toward JW's(which if I believed Lauren truly made this walk I definitely could see her deciding to go to JWs especially given the fact we know she had no keys no card to slide to enter and use elevators at Smallwood).. But if Lauren had chosen to do this, if you again refer back to btown's awesome map, she would have been for certain picked up on the MANY cams that would be on the path to JW's. No matter how she chose to get there she'd have been on multiple surveillance video..

Do we know where JW lived? If so, would you be so kind as to direct me?

 

[elmomom]

Re: post about what if Lauren after having turned the corner of 11th/College where JR states he last had visual of her.. If then instead of going to Smallwood she instead would have turned and gone toward JW's(which if I believed Lauren truly made this walk I definitely could see her deciding to go to JWs especially given the fact we know she had no keys no card to slide to enter and use elevators at Smallwood).. But if Lauren had chosen to do this, if you again refer back to btown's awesome map, she would have been for certain picked up on the MANY cams that would be on the path to JW's. No matter how she chose to get there she'd have been on multiple surveillance video..

no cameras on the east side of college. she can turn towards the east at the first intersection and miss any camera. the rest is pretty residential, and if a local wants to dispute me I would appreciate the info.

 

[rlc]

I agree with you and it is incredibly hard to put ourselves in that position but I'm sorry, I still find it selfish to leave her family and friends there searching for her, desperate, aching, distraught and to go back home and be comforted. Yes, her bf does need the comfort of his family and being at home, away from a terrible situation. However, think about LS's parents and what they are going through. I'm sure they would love to not have to get up every day and search in vain for their daughter but that is what they have to do. It is the reality of the situation and, in my mind, it is what someone who truly loves her and is sick with worry about finding her would do.

How would his staying keep them from getting up every day to search in vain? I don't think it's the responsibility of a 22-year-old to put his own needs aside for the sake of her parents, who may or may not want to see him, who may or may not be comforted by him. I definitely do not think we can make statements about what people who truly love her and are sick with worry would do. People who are sick with worry about loved ones do some pretty unpredictable things. It does not mean they don't truly love them or aren't really sick with worry.

 

[Walker]

1* Last seen by JR rounding this corner of 11th/College

2* First surveillance cam half block from JR seeing her make the corner of 11th/College

3* Second surveillance cam one block from JR seeing her make the corner of 11th/College

Lauren not being seen on 2* or 3*, nor eyewitness' to have seen her at Waffle House on opposite corner of cam3*..

That leaves the few feet of distance and time that is between 1* and 2*.. abduction would have had to occur in that tiny amt of time within those few feet of distance that there is between 1* and 2*..

I'll have to look at google or bing maps when I'm available to because I'd like to measure exactly just how small of a distance there truly is between this half block of where Lauren was last seen by JR(1*) and where she was not seen on surveillance video at first cam(2*)..

Maybe she entered a car at 11th and College.

Could she have arranged a ride somehow, and managed to enter the car without being caught on camera?

She may have had an extra cell phone (the pre-paid type), or used a pay phone (if any still exist). JR may have been drinking & therefore not 100% sure of the exact time that LS left his apartment.

Or she may have seen someone she knew & waved them down to give her a ride.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Makes sense.

I keep thinking about why Lauren would leave JR's apartment to walk home alone at 4:30 am. Some have said it's not an uncommon occurence, and that might be true. Still, thinking back to when I was that age, and what might have induced me to take the same risk, two reasons come to mind: I was in a bad situation and wanted to escape; or, I felt a strong need to be somewhere else, or to be with someone else. From what we know of the circumstances in Lauren's case, it could have been either of the two.

So, was JR giving her a hard time, forcing her to run out into the street where she was abducted by a stranger? Or, did she leave to be with JW, who was incensed over her actions earlier in the night and became violent? I just don't know enough about the character of either of the young men to decide which scenario is the most likely to be true.

bessie, you hit it on the head, as did someone much early in another post....character!

Where are the character testimonials on these PsOI? Who were the drug users, who was in a relationship? Who has pissed? Who knew who and how well....which really leads me to this friend/frat issue.....
....what the hell is a friend? Someone you've met, someone you know, someone that you trust, someone you're in a relationship with? CR and LS were 'friends', but met at the Indy500 which was on May 29, 4 days prior to this night????? What was this friendship based on? Love, lust, drugs...or just real friends? EVERYONE IN THEIR CIRCLE OF 'FRIENDS' knows the answers to these 'character' type questions that WILL help to understand what happened to Lauren.

SPEAK UP PEOPLE, THE CONSEQUENCED ARE MUCH WORSE!

 

[Inspector Gidget]

How would his staying keep them from getting up every day to search in vain? I don't think it's the responsibility of a 22-year-old to put his own needs aside for the sake of her parents, who may or may not want to see him, who may or may not be comforted by him. I definitely do not think we can make statements about what people who truly love her and are sick with worry would do. People who are sick with worry about loved ones do some pretty unpredictable things. It does not mean they don't truly love them or aren't really sick with worry.

He didn't have a problem with having a lawyer.That shows grief

 

[rlc]

He didn't have a problem with having a lawyer.That shows grief

I see no connection between getting a lawyer and grief.

ETA: I am not convinced JW is completely innocent, but I do not think people's reactions to tragedy, because they are not what others think they should be, should be used as indicators of guilt. My own reactions to loss are weird. So someone would see me jumping into funeral preparations (a distraction until I am ready to grieve, after a funeral), laughing during the funeral (I hate grieving publicly and looking for humor is my way of avoiding tears), and then being nasty to other people who are grieving (I hate grieving publicly and get annoyed with people who want to make me). It's just...adding insult to injury, I guess, to judge and find fault with the way someone grieves.

 

[elmomom]

CR and LS were 'friends', but met at the Indy500 which was on May 29, 4 days prior to this night?????

Just to clarify JR, HT and LS were reported by HT to have know each a much longer time than 5 days, and hung out together extensively.

but your points are dead on.

 

[bluehippo22]

no cameras on the east side of college. she can turn towards the east at the first intersection and miss any camera. the rest is pretty residential, and if a local wants to dispute me I would appreciate the info.

Until this evening, I have always imagined the LS left JR's to go home to Smallwood (south on College). Now, I can easily imagine that she crossed College at 11th and headed east to JW's. (She could have rounded the corner per JR and jaywalked. I think this is very common during low traffic times.) If JW and LS fought earlier, she could have been drunk, tired, without a phone, and wanting to see JW. Heading east immediately would likely avoid cameras (http://www.bloomingtonsecuritycameras.com/map.html). It has seemed improbable to me that LS could be abducted between the 11th corner and the next camera on College or Wafflehouse. Possible, but extremely unlucky. For me, this tight temporal and geographical space on College is why it has been so difficult to believe JR’s 4:30AM statement.

I have read a few posts over the last few weeks suggesting LS wondered into a random house. I never put much credence in this because I did not realize that there could have been a reason to head into a more residential area. The university owns many houses in this area for either academic use or rental to grad students/faculty/staff. Almost all of the other houses between Walnut/Woodlawn and 7th/10th are rentals too. A friend used to live in this area and told me that they used to leave their door unlocked, but too many drunk people wondered in. The last straw was a random drunk guy using the first floor bathroom (He thought he was in his buddy’s house). Also, Bloomington is a ghost town in the summer compared to the semester.

Of course, it is still possible that something bad happened at the apartment and one (or more people) moved her. It is also possible that she was randomly abducted, but I now think this did not happen on College. If she was abducted, I think it was east of College.

 

[jennyb629]

How would his staying keep them from getting up every day to search in vain? I don't think it's the responsibility of a 22-year-old to put his own needs aside for the sake of her parents, who may or may not want to see him, who may or may not be comforted by him. I definitely do not think we can make statements about what people who truly love her and are sick with worry would do. People who are sick with worry about loved ones do some pretty unpredictable things. It does not mean they don't truly love them or aren't really sick with worry.

His staying wouldn't keep them from searching, I didn't say that it would. Of course I'm just speculating anyway, I don't know how any of this would affect her parents or other friends, but to me it is definitely conceivable that his presence could be a source of moral support for them. Even if her parents may not want to see him/be comforted by him, I would still think his showing a willingness to want to stay and be involved in the case would at the least serve to put their minds more at ease about his possible involvement in her disappearance and let them know that some of those close to her at IU were truly concerned about her (although I know there are certainly cases of perps who do a good job pretending they are distraught when they are in fact, guilty, I think the majority of the time his staying would be a good indicator that he was not involved). I agree, people react in all sorts of ways in terrible situations and their reactions don't necessarily indicate how they feel about someone (whether they love her or not)

You're right, I was wrong to insinuate that his actions indicate he doesn't love her or isn't worried about her. I guess I'm just looking at it from a personal angle (as we all, I think, ultimately do) in thinking that if my SO or a sibling or anyone else close to me went missing there is no way I would be able to leave that place. I would be as heavily invested as it was allowed to be and I don't think there is any way I would feel OK going back home so soon after the SO went missing. I'm sorry, that's just my personal feeling and I know that just because others don't agree doesn't mean they care about their SOs or loved ones any less it's just hard for me to fathom.

 

[Lilcheese]

Re: post about what if Lauren after having turned the corner of 11th/College where JR states he last had visual of her.. If then instead of going to Smallwood she instead would have turned and gone toward JW's(which if I believed Lauren truly made this walk I definitely could see her deciding to go to JWs especially given the fact we know she had no keys no card to slide to enter and use elevators at Smallwood).. But if Lauren had chosen to do this, if you again refer back to btown's awesome map, she would have been for certain picked up on the MANY cams that would be on the path to JW's. No matter how she chose to get there she'd have been on multiple surveillance video..

Many of the cameras are not pointed at the sidewalk, they are pointed down at the door of businesses or have a very limited view of the sidewalks. Seems plausible that Lauren could have been walking closer to the road. I believe people have stated there is a grass buffer between sidewalk and street on many of the these roads. Could see a barefoot girl walking on the grass rather than sidewalk. If this is the case cameras would not pick her up except ones pointed at the street; which seem fewer and farer between than those pointed at stores/sidewalks right in front of stores. Again there is also the probability that SOME of the cameras are dummy cameras (mounted but not operational) that simply act as a deterrent.

 

[Blythe]

LE may have a theory but I doubt they know what happened to Lauren...they may believe she died, but don't know how. They may believe these men were involved but not sure which ones. And they sure don't know where she is now. Somebody will have to come forward, IMO, for that to happen...unless they get some very specific ping data.

Are there lots and lots of cell towers in a 30 or so mile radius? I would guess yes...but none of these people should have been pinging out of the downtown area, probably, between 4am-7am or so...hopefully someone did...

Hope LE has more than WS! It would be well known not to use or even bring your cell with you. I haven't been suspicious of DR but he may not have answered that 4:15 call because he didn't have his phone. And the call may have been made as subterfuge.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I see no connection between getting a lawyer and grief.

Neither do I that's my point.I am sure Lauren's parents would like to see her too.I am sure most parents would understand if their son would stay to help out his girlfriend's parents who are distraught.The age of 22 is not a baby,there are some 22 year old's that are married and taking care of a family.They are young ,but responsible for themselves as far as the law is concerned.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Just to clarify JR, HT and LS were reported by HT to have know each a much longer time than 5 days, and hung out together extensively.

but your points are dead on.

Yea, you're right elmomom, I just used those two as an example of a definition of friend that would be VERY different than the friendship she has with JR, HT, or even JW.....

I imagine every friend has their 'own' definition. Thanks!

 

[SmoothOperator]

IMO even if the two cams are at opposite ends as depicted these pics IMO show that it would still pick up a girl walking this way. Only way it wouldn't is if she were walking in the street.. Sorry don't buy she was walking in the street..

Further more as we already know NO ONE SAW LAUREN ON HER WALK HOME! NO ONE. Not any drivers, not any employee or patron of the Waffle House ONLY 1 BLOCK from where Jays says she turned the corner.. No one at all, nor any cameras at all EVER SAW LAUREN SPIERER ON HER WALK HOME THAT MORNING..

IMO that says a whole lot!!

 

[Alliecog]

If (and I really emphasize the IF)
If JR was the sole person who knows where the body of LS is, and will not voluntarily disclose the location of the body, then I am inclined to believe that it was way more serious than an drug overdose or heart problem.
If he is guilty I do think putting together a charge against him will be successful at some point, and if it were accidental he and his lawyer would better be served having the body in evidence. If there were some sort of foul play, or evidence of a sexual encounter, that would be motive to prevent the body from being found.
So, since I think there could be a much more serious crime here other than a cover-up I need a lot more evidence to convict JR in my mind.

I don't know what happened, but I do remember reading somewhere that HT was not aware of LS's heart condition until JW mentioned her needing meds when they discovered she was missing. It seems to me that LS kept her health problems to her family and JW, so it's very possible that these boys wouldn't have known if in fact her heart condition killed her, they probably though she OD'd (again if this is what happened, purely speculation atm) and panicked.

I will look for the article I'm talking about