IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

[bunnyesq.]

I know I am guilty of this. The labels I use reflect the lifestyle, rather than the age.
If any of these people were working and had responsibilities other than to get themselves through college, and had some real-life experience I wouldn't refer to them as kids as much.
That in no way whatsoever absolves anyone of responsibility for their own actions. It's just I can see a level of maturity that has not been reached here.

I think it has something to do with being in school still? I'm honestly not that much older than some of the POIs here, and I had to backspace over "kids," - that's my first instinct, which is not right.

 

[jjenny]

What has been disclosed about the individuals who were in the Smallwood elevator, lobby, came from Kilroys, or whereever, that resulted in the face punch to CR?

I have been following this since she was reported missing, and I have not seen/heard any details at all, initials, etc. of the males that were involved in the face punch incident. If the cameras at Smallwood caught LS and CR leaving for his apt, what did this camera, and others show of the males after the "punch" was over. Did they leave as a group, where did they go? When did they arrive back at their abodes? What do we know of them?

Thanks.

Unfortunately, the names of these men or man have never been reported by msm.

 

[obody]

re: the 3:38 sighting...if I were the witness and were concerned enough about something I was seeing to look at the clock and make note of the time, I would have either approached the people and asked if they needed help (though not likely if I were alone), or called the police and asked them to do a drive by and check it out.

Given that the witness wasn't *that* concerned at that moment, I don't know that we can assume she made a note of the time then, as opposed to (days later? how much later did she talk to the police?) guessing at the time when she realized what she saw might have been significant.

Even if she did make note of the time, it's not that hard to misremember things. I'm inclined to believe that she saw LS's earlier movements.

 

[guitarmeister]

Darcyline, I can't figure it out either. What would be the theory? If LS is seen completely out of it at 3:38 am with a mystery man, how does she end up at JR's to leave at 4:30 am in a perfectly fine state and able to walk without stumbling?

I don't recall anyone saying what kind of condition LS was when she left JR's. I think that there were some reports that JR asked her to stay the rest of the night, but she decided to walk back to Smallwood.

IMO, further progress on this case has to come from JR. There is video evidence of LS about 2:50. Assuming she got CR back to his apartment and in his bed with the help of room mate MB and didn't visit too long there before heading to JR's, there is a bit of time before he reported her leaving at 4:30.

So if we accept this story, I am thinking that she spent a little over an hour at JR's. A little more than just exchanging "hello." I don't know if LE has any more details what really happened during this hour or so. Based on pleas from the parents, I am thinking not very much.

 

[bunnyesq.]

re: the 3:38 sighting...if I were the witness and were concerned enough about something I was seeing to look at the clock and make note of the time, I would have either approached the people and asked if they needed help (though not likely if I were alone), or called the police and asked them to do a drive by and check it out.

Given that the witness wasn't *that* concerned at that moment, I don't know that we can assume she made a note of the time then, as opposed to (days later? how much later did she talk to the police?) guessing at the time when she realized what she saw might have been significant.

Even if she did make note of the time, it's not that hard to misremember things. I'm inclined to believe that she saw LS's earlier movements.

Maybe she was used to seeing drunk people because of her position, and was kind of immune to it.

 

[elmomom]

I don't recall anyone saying what kind of condition LS was when she left JR's. I think that there were some reports that JR asked her to stay the rest of the night, but she decided to walk back to Smallwood.

IMO, further progress on this case has to come from JR. There is video evidence of LS about 2:50. Assuming she got CR back to his apartment and in his bed with the help of room mate MB and didn't visit too long there before heading to JR's, there is a bit of time before he reported her leaving at 4:30.

So if we accept this story, I am thinking that she spent a little over an hour at JR's. A little more than just exchanging "hello." I don't know if LE has any more details what really happened during this hour or so. Based on pleas from the parents, I am thinking not very much.

You're right, Anything could have happened. And we don't know that JR was the only one there with them. And if LS did leave on her own, we don't know where she went.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe she was used to seeing drunk people because of her position, and was kind of immune to it.

And maybe she saw some other drunk people that had nothing to do with LS. By the way why is her account more credible than the guy's who is apparently on facebook claiming he drove LS somewhere? Maybe LS is actually alive in some exotic locale?

 

[plaidmom]

Using the same logic, she could have seen a completely different person. LS is not the only small blonde girl on that campus.

I had the same thought earlier today.

People were so quick to dismiss the taxi-cab driver tip posted on TG's blog and on this site.

I immediately thought "What if he really DID pick up a petite blonde named Lauren on June 4th?" Just not LS???

Lauren was a very popular name 20-25 years ago. Petite blondes are in no short supply in Bloomington. To most men (most people?) anyone under 5'4" and weighing less than 120 pounds is "tiny". Drunkeness is not an uncommon state around college campuses and bars.

What I DO want to say, is that we,on the web, shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the sightings and the reports of the local citizens.

The bar managers, the bartenders and , yes, the cabbies, have access to something that most of us, possibly including LE, do NOT: an ample supply of inebriated, wasted, high, etc people with loose tongues late into the night.

Back to the cabbie. I commend him for contacting LE with his story. Isn't that what LE and the Spierers have been begging for all along? No tip too small or insignificant, right?

Even if he had the wrong "Lauren" in his cab that night he did the Right Thing.

I'm also verrrrry intersted in what the cabbies and the bartenders are hearing "on the street" these days.

The cabbie also mentioned that other fares said that LS had "Done this before". *

That struck me.

Disappeared? For days?

Is that True?

Surely HT, JW and the Other Roommates would know.

So, if that's true....the question would be....were other Missing Persons reports filed? I tried to search this online and had no luck.

If not, why not? What made THIS instance different?

*I'm also willing to accept that these fares were high, lying or talking about a different Lauren....

 

[coltsgal]

Indiana is solidly in the Eastern time zone now. But a few years ago it wasn't, and certain counties were in different time zones. They used to call it 'Indiana stupid time.' It's fixed now, though. It shouldn't have affected any parties involved in this case.

That's not true. The very northwest portion of Indiana is still Central Time. Although you are correct, it does not affect Bloomington or that portion of the state what-so-ever.

 

[TonyGatto]

My 2 cents on the "mystery man." First, what I think is an accurate recitation of facts:

- Witness claims seeing LS with mystery man on or around the steps at 10th and College at precisely 3:38AM
- Precise timing of witness account is reasonable given that there is a large clock immediately overhead
- LE have confirmed that they have no video of LS after 2:51 and that the individual with her at that time is known to them (they don't use names but we all effectively know that he is CR). In reaching that conclusion, LE reviewed tape of the corner of 10th and College or areas very close nearby. However, we don't know the precise location (and by this I mean not location on a map but location on a building), target or variety of cameras at/near that location.
- LE have acknowledged the possibility that, camera evidence aside, the witness may have seen LS. That might be because a) the witness saw LS at her bar (which may or may not be "Sports"; do we know?), but did not see LS and any mystery man (either saw some other drunk girl or is making it up), or b) the witness may have seen LS and the mystery man where she claimed but her report cannot be corroborated through camera data because the camera did not look at the right place (at the right time, perhaps).

Second, my alternate theories, based on the facts:
1. This is a worthless report about an event that either has nothing to do with LS or never actually happened. LE has nevertheless acknowledged it in ambiguous fashion, including pointed references to an individual on camera that is known to them, because they wish to muddy the waters for one or more POIs, including JR, who is presumably responsible for the time period in question.
2. This is a substantive report that LE regards as potentially credible, even if it cannot be verified through camera evidence, and possibly even important to their investigation. LE nevertheless has sought to downplay the report, to conceal what they know, by not including it on the timeline and providing vague responses at the news conference, in order to muddy the waters for one or more POIs, including JR, who is presumably responsible for the time period in question.
3. This is a report that is unlikely to be credible given the nature of the camera evidence, but theoretically could be true, even if not verifiable. Nevertheless, LE does not regard it as important to their investigation, and Qualters' answers at the news conference are intended only to best inform the media and not send any messages to POIs.

I believe 1 or 3 are more likely than 2, but can't rule 2 out by any means. In fact, 2 may well be consistent with my potentially far-fetched theory of the case, which involves an overdose during the post-3AM time period, and disposal of the body by, with the aid, or at the direction of an unidentified individual associated with a criminal drug enterprise, almost certainly with the knowledge or participation of JR.

The witness DOES NOT work at SPORTS and she never says she saw Lauren at any bar, only at 10th and College at 3:38 am.

 

[Kimster]

And maybe she saw some other drunk people that had nothing to do with LS. By the way why is her account more credible than the guy's who is apparently on facebook claiming he drove LS somewhere? Maybe LS is actually alive in some exotic locale?

From what I'm seeing, everyone is just bouncing ideas around. :dunno:

 

[porchpile]

That's not true. The very northwest portion of Indiana is still Central Time. Although you are correct, it does not affect Bloomington or that portion of the state what-so-ever.

I stand corrected. I thought it was all counties in Indiana. But still there are no counties in southern Indiana in the Central Time Zone.

 

[jjenny]

I am sure police would have checked if LS had done something like this before (run off somewhere without telling anyone).

 

[bunnyesq.]

And maybe she saw some other drunk people that had nothing to do with LS. By the way why is her account more credible than the guy's who is apparently on facebook claiming he drove LS somewhere? Maybe LS is actually alive in some exotic locale?

Did I ever say that one was more credible than the other? No. You're assuming a lot.

I was giving my opinion on why the witness didn't walk over and see if the girl she saw needed help.

 

[plaidmom]

I know I am guilty of this. The labels I use reflect the lifestyle, rather than the age. If any of these people were working and had responsibilities other than to get themselves through college, and had some real-life experience I wouldn't refer to them as kids as much.
That in no way whatsoever absolves anyone of responsibility for their own actions. It's just I can see a level of maturity that has not been reached here.

Totlally get this!

In Plaidmom World: kid= still on the payroll of the Bank of Mom and Dad.

I'm not an age-ist! I've known full-on adults at the age of 17. Some people are still "kids" at 37.

It's less about a number and more about how you manage yourself it the world. If you are writing your own checks (even electronically) and paying your own way in the world, then, yes, you are an ADULT.

 

[coltsgal]

I stand corrected. I thought it was all counties in Indiana. But still there are no counties in southern Indiana in the Central Time Zone.

Someone just posted this map. I wasn't aware that the southwest portion is central time as well.

http://www.timetemperature.com/tzus/indiana_time_zone_map.shtml

 

[Darcyline]

So if we accept this story, I am thinking that she spent a little over an hour at JR's. A little more than just exchanging "hello." I don't know if LE has any more details what really happened during this hour or so. Based on pleas from the parents, I am thinking not very much.

I think this is a good question. Has JR or his lawyer said what was happening while she was at his place? Talking? Watching movies? I feel like I am starting to get the finer details of the story mixed up, but have any statements been made about that gap time?

 

[akh]

And maybe she saw some other drunk people that had nothing to do with LS. By the way why is her account more credible than the guy's who is apparently on facebook claiming he drove LS somewhere? Maybe LS is actually alive in some exotic locale?

His account seems to have been debunked by the police following it and finding a different blond girl at the residence. Which I'd assume she told the police she had taken a taxi that night. So, unless you believe she's hiding LS then that story doesn't fit with what is already known.

The mystery man story 'can' fit based on what little we (the public) know without actually changing anything. In fact it fills in some of the gap in the timeline.

 

[jjenny]

I think this is a good question. Has JR or his lawyer said what was happening while she was at his place? Talking? Watching movies? I feel like I am starting to get the finer details of the story mixed up, but have any statements been made about that gap time?

JR and his lawyer haven't been talking at all. All the info we have so far came from the roommate of LS, I believe (the 4:15 am phone call and JR supposedly trying to get LS to stay at his apartment but she was insistent on leaving).

 

[bessie]

Maybe LE found out who the girl was that the witness saw...no reason they would have to report that to the public. I am sure they are doing their job and have looked into it, as they say. If they need help finding out who someone on video is, they will ask for it.

I am really hoping we get some more info at tomorrow's PC...I can't take much more of Lauren's poor mom pleading for help, knowing that I can't help her. I am many states away, but actually looked up flights to Bloomington tonight, wondering if there was a way I could go and help somehow, although I am not physically able to search. I can't imagine anyone holding back info from this tortured mom...

And that's what it boils down to. We've been told that at least some of the persons of interest have cooperated with LE. If they've now flown the coop for whatever reason, it's after the fact. So be it. The so-called friends who haven't stepped forward to offer information really bother me, though. Even if they weren't with Lauren that night, something they might have seen or heard in the days before could offer a clue. For the life of me, I cannot understand why an innocent person would not contact LE to say, "Here's my name. I don't think I know anything significant, but I'll be happy to talk to you if you think it would help." It's a simple act of decency, so why not??