IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[British]

BBM.

I guess the reason I don't find CR particularly troubling, memory loss or not, is that from JRs own mouth, she was still with us later, and that he was the last one to see her. Sure, CR wasn't the most savory character in the world. But if you go by JRs own words, it wasn't CR or CRs crowd she was with last, it was JR, with or without his crowd.

True. I just dont like the part about "memory loss". To me that is very troubling. In any case, if OD was the case, it may be that more than one of POIs was involved. Lie detector tests may be very helpful to police in cases like that and I hope that both POIs took them.

 

[Jupiter812]

BBM.

I guess the reason I don't find CR particularly troubling, memory loss or not, is that from JRs own mouth, she was still with us later, and that he was the last one to see her. Sure, CR wasn't the most savory character in the world. But if you go by JRs own words, it wasn't CR or CRs crowd she was with last, it was JR, with or without his crowd.

Nor do I but CR troubling. After all, he has probably voluntarily submitted more evidence than anyone: DNA, car, cell phone records and credit card receipts.

 

[Barry]

True. I just dont like the part about "memory loss". To me that is very troubling. In any case, if OD was the case, it may be that more than one of POIs was involved. Lie detector tests may be very helpful to police in cases like that and I hope that both POIs took them.

Nor do I but CR troubling. After all, he has probably voluntarily submitted more evidence than anyone: DNA, car, cell phone records and credit card receipts.

The one indirect possibility here, is that CR gave her something that caused her to OD later. Being as he was a relatively new friend to her, maybe he was into drugs that she was not familiar with, such as heroin.

All pure speculation. I don't find him troubling, but anyone she saw that night could have had a hand in her disappearance, either directly or indirectly.

 

[Jupiter812]

True. I just dont like the part about "memory loss". To me that is very troubling. In any case, if OD was the case, it may be that more than one of POIs was involved. Lie detector tests may be very helpful to police in cases like that and I hope that both POIs took them.

It's not uncommon with heavy alcohol use especially when used in a relatively short period of time. Another term for it is "blackout" which can most certainly cause memory loss. I know it sounds convenient but I buy it enough to look elsewhere for the responsible party.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The timeline on this article says she was at CR/MBs for approximately an hour:

http://m.examiner.com/examiner/pm_60972/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=muwwbW01

That's a great catch. I don't recall having seen it elsewhere, and wonder what the source is, and whether it's at all reliable.

If true, it certainly puts much of the uncertain timeline on MB/CR, rather than JR.

In general, I have seen some strange mixing between the stories of MB(/CR) and JR. I've largely chalked that up to media's initial confusion of CR and JR, because they learned the identity of the former first, but don't know that it accounts for all of the discrepancies.

 

[jjenny]

That's a great catch. I don't recall having seen it elsewhere, and wonder what the source is, and whether it's at all reliable.

If true, it certainly puts much of the uncertain timeline on MB/CR, rather than JR.

In general, I have seen some strange mixing between the stories of MB(/CR) and JR. I've largely chalked that up to media's initial confusion of CR and JR, because they learned the identity of the former first, but don't know that it accounts for all of the discrepancies.

My guess it's not reliable. I also agree there is a strange mixing between the stories. Originally it was reported that MB was the one trying to get her to stay, and when she wanted to go, MB watched her leave. When it appears to be JR's story, not MB's.

 

[Jupiter812]

The one indirect possibility here, is that CR gave her something that caused her to OD later. Being as he was a relatively new friend to her, maybe he was into drugs that she was not familiar with, such as heroin.

All pure speculation. I don't find him troubling, but anyone she saw that night could have had a hand in her disappearance, either directly or indirectly.

I too have wondered about heroin use in this case; however, I am of the thought that no matter what drugs she did, she is more likely to have died from her heart complication rather than OD because of the bodily mess that would be present with an OD.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjUk4tygR4A#t=2m33s

If you pause 2 seconds in from where I marked it, you'll see one of the cameras on College between 11th and 10th, I believe the one in the middle of the block. It appears to be pointing South, and it certainly looks like it would capture someone walking through the arcade, but not necessarily someone walking on the sidewalk to the left. Nor does it look like it would capture someone sitting on the steps at the end of the street, which I believe are (below and) out of view. If the camera at the end of the block, at 10th, points in the other direction, it again captures the arcade, but not the steps. So I'd guess that someone who walks along the sidewalk to the end of the street, turns the corner (onto 10th), and sits on the steps, might not be captured by either camera.

LE also reviewed cam data from Salzmann's office directly across the street on the Northeast side of 10th and College. Here's a pic of the camera there - [ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=602+North+College+Avenue+bloomington&hl=en&ll=39.171677,-86.534822&spn=0.004932,0.008819&sll=39.171720,-86.534796&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&layer=c&cbp=13,38.73,,2,-5.31&cbll=39.171674,-86.534672&gl=us&z=17&panoid=rEmTjo0efui9VAuANelaBw"]602 North College Avenue bloomington - Google Maps[/ame]. It faces College, but it's unclear how much of the East sidewalk it captures, let alone the street or West sidewalk.

 

[British]

I too have wondered about heroin use in this case; however, I am of the thought that no matter what drugs she did, she is more likely to have died from her heart complication rather than OD because of the bodily mess that would be present with an OD.

The most dangerous drug for her with the heart condition she has is cocaine. Especially if mixed with a lot of alcohol. If she was talking cocaine excessively that night after heavy drinking and she continued doing so while visiting the apartments of the POIs, a scenario of OD/heart attack resulting from cocaine use seems very possible. On the other hand, if that were the case, there would have been no good reason for the POI(s) not to simply take her to the hospital and try to save her life (unless they were thinking very irrationally). For that reason, I think the possibility of a sexual assault by someone she knew is a also a very real possibility. That is probably the reason the police collected DNA from the POIs. In case they eventually recover a body and they can test.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Nor do I but CR troubling. After all, he has probably voluntarily submitted more evidence than anyone: DNA, car, cell phone records and credit card receipts.

It's possible that others have released all of this as well, and just not talked about it. CR's attorney has had the most contact with the media, JR's and JW's the least. At least as between CR and JR, that may be a function of the differences in their existing relationships with and availability to the local media, and their statewide (or even national) prominence.

 

[jjenny]

The most dangerous drug for her with the heart condition she has is cocaine. Especially if mixed with a lot of alcohol. If she was talking cocaine excessively that night after heavy drinking and she continued doing so while visiting the apartments of the POIs, a scenario of OD/heart attack resulting from cocaine use seems very possible. On the other hand, if that were the case, there would have been no good reason for the POI(s) not to simply take her to the hospital and try to save her life (unless they were thinking very irrationally). For that reason, I think the possibility of a sexual assault by someone she knew is a also a very real possibility. That is probably the reason the police collected DNA from the POIs. In case they eventually recover a body and they can test.

No good reason? I disagree. She is under 21. Even giving alcohol to her could presumably result in criminal charges.

 

[Barry]

Right or wrong, there's a spot light on JR right now because of his own account. If it's an accurate account, then he's the last known person to see her. If it's not accurate, then the big question is, "why"?

 

[mik1965]

Not too mention that ZO lives at 10th and College!!!!!!!

 

[Jupiter812]

The most dangerous drug for her with the heart condition she has is cocaine. Especially if mixed with a lot of alcohol. If she was talking cocaine excessively that night after heavy drinking and she continued doing so while visiting the apartments of the POIs, a scenario of OD/heart attack resulting from cocaine use seems very possible. On the other hand, if that were the case, there would have been no good reason for the POI(s) not to simply take her to the hospital and try to save her life (unless they were thinking very irrationally). For that reason, I think the possibility of a sexual assault by someone she knew is a also a very real possibility. That is probably the reason the police collected DNA from the POIs. In case they eventually recover a body and they can test.

I agree there is no good reason to not take her to the hospital. There are only selfish reasons of putting one's reputation before another person's life. Indeed, she could have died during sexual activity consensual or not.

 

[Jupiter812]

Check out this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjUk4tygR4A#t=2m33s

If you pause 2 seconds in from where I marked it, you'll see one of the cameras on College between 11th and 10th, I believe the one in the middle of the block. It appears to be pointing South, and it certainly looks like it would capture someone walking through the arcade, but not necessarily someone walking on the sidewalk to the left. Nor does it look like it would capture someone sitting on the steps at the end of the street, which I believe are (below and) out of view. If the camera at the end of the block, at 10th, points in the other direction, it again captures the arcade, but not the steps. So I'd guess that someone who walks along the sidewalk to the end of the street, turns the corner (onto 10th), and sits on the steps, might not be captured by either camera.

LE also reviewed cam data from Salzmann's office directly across the street on the Northeast side of 10th and College. Here's a pic of the camera there - 602 North College Avenue bloomington - Google Maps. It faces College, but it's unclear how much of the East sidewalk it captures, let alone the street or West sidewalk.

The amount of distance available for an abduction without being caught on camera is so short. FWIW Walking through the arcade even in the daytime creeps me out. What is this about someone sitting on steps? I missed that part.

 

[Ven]

totally disagree here... In the past, as a woman, I have, I know others that have, and known many that do feel it is ok to be in the company of a man other than a BF at all hours of the night. Especially if the woman had a somewhat different circle of friends. And different habits, possibly. It really does not always equate to trouble in a relationship.
That being said, it is extremely odd that there seem to be no other women in this group at all for the entire evening. This, I do not buy.

Someone she barely knew? It would be one thing if it were a good friend, but really, you have a b/f, and then you go meet up with a guy you barely know at 2 a.m.?

 

[cluciano63]

The longer this case goes on without resolution, the longer all of these people will be under suspicion and paying attorneys. Maybe at some point some of them will decide it is in their best interest to try to clear themselves and drop out of the POI mix...

I know LE said they were giving LD tests, but not sure if they actually did and how many, and for sure, not who. I am almost positive that not all of the POI's would agree to take them. Most lawyers do not permit their clients to take LD tests. Maybe after a period of time being a POI will change some minds. I know this is not a sure test of innocence, but agreeing to take one and taking it, goes a long way with LE, especially if they pass.

Not sure how else anyone can clear themselves in this kind of case?

 

[Ven]

well... see... that's the thing with HT - I don't know which version is right, and I am not so sure that she really did notice it before JW brought it to her attention.
I remember reading somewhere that Jesse used to stay over at her place since his house was such a disaster... frat boys... anyhow, I don't think it was normal or common for LS to be out all night.

I am always suspicious of HT, but I get the feeling she is just an attention seeker.
She just wants to talk and be seen, thus the conflicting stories, she probably has no information whatsoever and just talks hoping the cameras will be on her.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I think the fixation on drawing the implication of a rift in the relationship from LS and CR's being together late at night is unwarranted. Are college girls with boyfriends not supposed to have a social life, even a "party" social life, apart from their boyfriend? This seems unrecognizant of the nature of these individuals', if not most college students', social lives - we have been told by her best friends that LS had an enormous circle of friends and was a social butterfly. They have also told us she had a great relationship with her boyfriend, who appears to have a similarly wide social network.

If you believe JW's alibi at least up until 2:30AM (and we have no report that he was among the group at Smallwood at the time, though that doesn't mean 100% that he wasn't), JW was obviously insufficiently concerned about being apart, and not hearing, from his girlfriend, who he sees all the time, even late at night on a night they were supposed to meet, to go looking for her.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

What is this about someone sitting on steps? I missed that part.

I believe TG has reported that the 3:38AM witness saw LS and the mystery man sit on the steps at the Northwest corner of 10th and college. The steps are at the end of the arcade, leading below it to the sidewalk of 10th.