IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[Gabby66]

I think when someone dies, for whatever reason, the bowel & bladder contents are expelled?

Depends. All body fluids CAN be lost, but not always.

 

[phantomthought]

Speaking of where you can hide a body.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-Texan-hostess-body-trapped-air-duct.html

 

[bessie]

One of the problems I am having is that a lot of info was given out during the very early (before June 12) press conferences. Few of those seem to be still available online uncut. The sound bites that remain do not give all the facts. I do believe that everyone's apartments were searched, and LE said that they had gotten numerous search warrants. But I would be amazed of I could find that info now.

Uncut pc videos from June 6-10 are at the Indy Channel links bx2 just posted. The Herald Times online has the videos from June 10-24 available with little editing. A lot of other good information at that site, as well.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/pages/lauren_spierer#videos

 

[cluciano63]

I think when someone dies, for whatever reason, the bowel & bladder contents are expelled?

I don't know, I was with my mom when she died and that did not happen. She just stopped breathing. And it was an hour or two after before they took her away...

 

[jjenny]

Wouldn't the police be able to verify by now, if any of the POI's cars left the apt complex that morning? I am pretty sure they searched all the POI's cars... it would be silly not to.

I still don't know how her friends could have disposed of the body considering the cameras would have caught them driving away.

Not every apartment building has cameras. Clearly, JR's, CR's and MB's apartment building doesn't have cameras, or police would have been able to verify if LS left that morning at 4:30 am.

 

[Gabby66]

Another thing to consider about fluids and searching of the apartment.....

It will also significantly depend on how WELL a search was conducted. Urine for example, is sterile and usually clear. By the time these places were searched, it would also have been dry. If a death occurred and she released urine, her bladder would empty but if she had gone to the bathroom recently, then there may not be much left. So a small amount of urine could go unnoticed. I can see them having a forensics team inspecting cars, but did they do this at every single residence? Not sure. They could have had Detectives coming the place for "evidence" and easily miss a dried odorless spot of urine. I'm sure SOME of her DNA (hair, saliva, etc.) would show up anyway at JR's, CR's, and JW's, since it's been reported that she was at each of these places.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

There are no security cameras at the 5 North Townhomes were JR, CR, and MB live. It is entirely possible that no cameras would have caught their vehicles leaving the building.

If this is the case, couldn't a stranger NOT have been caught as well?

 

[Frogzilla]

The two [Holly Bobo and LS] have more in common than their student status. Both are blond-haired, white females, age 20 and both are petite.

and

Late Tuesday, Bloomington police told Eyewitness News they were aware of the Tennessee case and the similarities, but don't think there's a connection at this time.

http://www.wthr.com/story/14994158/spierer-disappearance-has-similarities-to-tenn-case

IMO these cases are vastly different, not to say they couldn't be connected.
Similarity-
20yr old, petite, blond hair, college students

Differences- everything else?
Rural Tn vs. city around large college campus
730AM possibly planned abduction? vs. 430AM possible random abduction?
BPD talkative vs. TBI silent
HB was seen by her brother being "led"? by man in camo clothing toward the treeline
fake SAR team involvement
I'm sure there are many more I could think about, but I think this gets the point across

 

[jjenny]

Speaking of where you can hide a body.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-Texan-hostess-body-trapped-air-duct.html

There have been cases of accidental death where the person just fell, climbed somewhere, etc, and wasn't found for some time. But in the case of LS given the extensive search it's probably not all that likely. One would think if she was walking home and fell and died somewhere along the way, they would have been able to find the body already. She was within 600 steps from her building (if 4:30 am witness statement is to be believed).

 

[kissdegirl]

I don't know, I was with my mom when she died and that did not happen. She just stopped breathing. And it was an hour or two after before they took her away...

I agree. I've been present during several deaths, and none of the body's fluids were lost during that time.

Also, it's possible LS was feeling ill and vomited in the toilet, or someone helped her into the shower or something. If she had died in there or vomited there or the toilet, there would be no evidence, or no real cleanup necessary IMO.

 

[Barry]

It is interesting to me how the blame has shifted in this case. Surprisingly, I have never really seen JW targeted. At the very beginning, CR and MB were the ones to blame and some articles didn't even mention JR as part of the evening. Now it has swung to JR.
However, LE has made it extremely clear recently that absolutely no one has been cleared. That includes JW. I liked what someone else said when they called it a whodunit compass ha ha. My whodunit compass isn't pointing toward JW, but that is one avenue that no one...including LE...has been able to debunk yet.

I don't have a whodunit compass, but do employ a "rage arrow" from time to time. If you apply only the rage arrow to the events of that night, it points directly from one person to another.

(The rage arrow is my own invention. It is for illustrative purposes only, and is MOO).

 

[jjenny]

If this is the case, couldn't a stranger NOT have been caught as well?

Of course. But it would be a very small window of opportunity. She would have been within 600 steps from her home.

 

[justmethinking]

This is gross, but when I was in college my first apartment had last been rented by a college student who drank himself to death one night. On the couch there was still the remnants of a vomit stain, and on the floor there was another ghost of a vomit stain. They had cleaned it up kind of, as well as you can clean that sort of thing off a rental couch and cheap carpet. The stains were obvious and it wasn't until about 1/2 way through the year someone told us what those stains were. He had aspirated on his copious vomit. I think when someone drinks themself to death, it's not a clean event.

Ugh. In my experience, college kids tend to have many, many body fluid stains around their places. How could LE prove they came from LS or someone else?

 

[elmomom]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

copying my post from an old thread

this news report tells WHAT the altercation was about.

I really don't mean to be difficult, but I no longer believe that based on things I've read elsewhere (that are unverifiable but I deem to be believable)

I cannot find a single source to verify that the alleged punch thrower even knew LS, let alone was her friend, or JWs friend. And we have evidence that CR was her friend (albeit a fairly recent one). I know what we've heard, but I want to know the truth.

thanks for the link again though, it's a great resource to watch the older reports.

 

[jjenny]

Ugh. In my experience, college kids tend to have many, many body fluid stains around their places. How could LE prove they came from LS or someone else?

Would have to do DNA testing.

 

[jjenny]

I agree. I've been present during several deaths, and none of the body's fluids were lost during that time.

Also, it's possible LS was feeling ill and vomited in the toilet, or someone helped her into the shower or something. If she had died in there or vomited there or the toilet, there would be no evidence, or no real cleanup necessary IMO.

Even if LE did find stains from LS in one of the apartments, since she was known to be there, it wouldn't prove anything (unless it was a large amount of blood, which police clearly don't have). Because the person living in the apartment could simply claim she threw up in there, etc. It wouldn't really be a proof of anything.

 

[bessie]

This may sound like a stupid question, but if she Overdosed or her heart gave out would there be some sort of biological or physical proof of where it happened? Like, could it have happened and even a great forensics team searching the place not be able to tell?

Looks like people were thinking the same question as me and posted faster!

So, there may not necessarily be biological or physical proof of an Od or heart attack.

The scent of decomposition released in the first couple of hours postmortem can be detected by a well-trained cadaver dog.

http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

The dogs can't identify the victim or reveal the cause of death, but they can confirm the presence of a corpse.

http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

 

[cluciano63]

The scent of decomposition released in the first couple of hours postmortem can be detected by a well-trained cadaver dog.

http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

The dogs can't identify the victim or reveal the cause of death, but they can confirm the presence of a corpse.

http://www.biologycorner.com/anatomy/senses/crimedogs.html

They can, with ther right dogs, but I don't think it would be enough to do more than apply pressure to the residents. (And if they know more than they are saying, pressure alone is not going to do it, apparently.)

 

[justmethinking]

Would have to do DNA testing.

Very true. Wouldn't they need a search warrant for that, which would require probable cause? I wonder if being the last person to see her would give LE probable cause. So frustrating!!:banghead:

I have been in the accidental OD/friends know something camp all along. Now I am wondering if she was stalked/followed by someone she already knew or recognized from school. Did she "walk away" with that person who has her now or hurt her? Again, so frustrating!

 

[cluciano63]

Seems like if she was stalked, the person should have been caught on a camera at some point...she was all over the place that night. And waiting for her until 4:30AM when she easily could have just crashed at JR's seems a bit "lucky" especially since no one could expect she would come out and set off alone at that hour.

I'm sticking with random (small chance/10%) and friends/fellow partiers 90%.