IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #14

[jjenny]

...
MB seems only slightly more credible due to his cooperation. However, it seems to me that he changed his story...

...

Since we don't have access to direct statements from any of the POIs, we have no way of knowing if their story is consistent or changing. Whatever was reported in the press (especially early on) is not an indication that MB's story has changed.

 

[SmoothOperator]

To those who feel that these kids would call 911 and do the "right" thing.. I have a personal experience of what really happens when push comes to shove and life is lost..the word "friends" goes out the door.. My dear brother in law unfortunately got involved with the wrong crowd his last two years of high school.. A very handsome and smart young man that had low self esteem and wanted so badly to fit in.. The partying continued after highschool and after dropping out of college and not holding a job he finally was arrested for possession with intent to sell.. Tho he was not selling himself, one of his best friends was and Jason always being the good friend agreed to hang on to half of the ecstasy pills his "friend" was selling at the rave that night.. There was a raid and he went down.. These friends all disappeared while he was incarcerated and even with good counsel he still got 3 years in the penitentiary.. This changed his life.. He served 2 Years and when he came out he started with a clean slate, back to college and working a really good part time job.. For the next year and a half he flourished and for once felt actually good about himself and positive about his future.. He was in a relationship with a great and supportive girlfriend whom we all adored..

An out of town concert was planned and tickets were purchased.. 8 of his new friends and girlfriend had a 4 day weekend trip planned for this concert.. The week of due to some guys quitting at work Jason's boss told him that he really needed him to work that weekend And told him he was really counting on him.. So no matter how much he badly wanted to go with his friends and girlfriend to this out of town concert.. Jason instead did the right thing and stayed behind to help out his boss..

That Saturday while myself and his brother were at the car dealership with him(he'd really worked hard and saved up his money to put down on a new car that we were helping him to get..) We were so very proud of him.. In that year and a half that young boy so very unsure of himself really had grown into a man.. A responsible, hard working good man.. He received several calls and texts while we were there at the dealership signing all the last paperwork for Jason to get his car.. I asked him who keeps calling? Thought maybe it was girlfriend from outta town at the concert but knew by the look on his face something was up..

After leaving the dealership that day and following him home *and in speaking to him he finally admitted who it was that was calling.. It was the ring leader of the group of trouble guys that Jason used to hang out with when using and heavily drinking.. The guy who he had taken the complete and total fall for the drug bust which had gotten him a felony record and two years in a penitentiary.. I asked why he was calling and he said he'd been calling for several weeks.. Several of the guys had.. And this ringleader had just bought a brand new house and was throwing a huge party that night and really wanted Jason to come..

He said no way in hell was he going and when we left him he was heading over to show off his new car to a couple of buddies from work.. We told him to come and hang out with us, my son, his nephew of course adored him and he always enjoyed coming over and spending time with us three.. He declined and said he had to work super early that following morning so he was gonna hang out with these work buddies and call it an early night..

That was the last time we would ever see Jason alive..

10a.m. The following morning we got a call from my mom in law who was literally howling Jason's
name into the phone. It was the only thing that we could make out and immediately rushed to her home.. The sheriff's Dept had coldly called her and stated they had a body at the morgue that had her sons identification on it and they needed a family member to come and make a positive id.. Myself, my husband, and his other brother and wife all 4 went to make the id.. Something that you just never ever forget.. His beautiful young face at nearly 22 Years old simply looked asleep and at rest.. After that we were met with detectives outside of the morgue who filled us in on the details that he knew and said it was under investigation.. That was March 2006 and no one has ever been punished for what happened to Jason.. Money and powerful last names have protected these young men who let him die.. All of those guys present, except for one Jason had known since his first day of kindergarten.. His entire life he'd known them but when push came to shove and in the end they all just watched Jason die..

Unbeknownst to ANY of us(except a neighborhood friend who he'd stopped by to show his new car to) Jason made that fateful decision to just stop by the party.. Just to see his old buds.. To show off just how well he was doing.. He told Jacob(the neighborhood friend) that he wanted them all to see what clean and sober living could do for someone.. Jacob, too warned him of not going that it wasn't worth it and nothing good would come of it.. He went anyway..

Once there I can only assume or speculate what Jason was thinking.. Offered the booze and the ecstasy and the cocaine.. I can only think that in his head he thought what would one time for old times sake harm him?.. One night of partying with the old friends.. It was early in the evening when Jason got there and the party had not even started.. It was just he and the old friends hanging out having the pre-party.. For whatever reasons Jason first made the choice to drink.. IMO it was all over for him from that point on.. Once the judgement is clouded by a drink or two it gives way to why not go ahead and indulge In the party just this one night.. Supposedly in less than a full hour of his having been there Jason went into very violent seizures, and the panic set in.. The chaos ensued and all hadn't a clue of what to do(this was all told to us by the one guy that attempted to reach out for help).. He said what truly seemed like forever Jason violently convulsed with everyone not knowing what to do and seeing clearly no one else was doing anything to help he got his cell out to call 911.. The ringleader went nuts saying he wasn't going down for this punk azz who couldn't handle his drugs.. Going off about his new home, his parents would freak out, etc.. With it still just being the six of them there and with Jason whom they felt was mostly likely dead(as he was now blue).. Ringleader says help me get him into the guest bed.. We'll wait til tomorrow and say we found him dead in bed and that he'd obviously died in his sleep.. Told everyone to hurry as party guests soon would be arriving..

That's exactly what they did.. These guys who had known Jason his entire life, left him dead in a bedroom and continued to have a party.. By 10pm the one guy with a conscious cannot take it anymore and leaves the home, drives to a payphone and calls 911 stating that a guy had gone into some type seizures and didn't know why and gave the address of the party and hung up..he made it sound as tho it was just now occurring when truth was it had been almost 4 hours..

EMT's arrive on the scene and evidently one of the friends had seen the guy leave and feared this was what he was going to do.. So within those few minutes they agreed to stick to a story if EMTs or police happen to show up..

They were shown to the bedroom and were told that the guy had complained of not feeling well while they all were watching a game earlier in the evening..and he had come and laid down.. That was all that the knew..EMTs knew story wasn't adding up and police were immediaty dispatched to the scene to start separating and questioning the 4guys and 3 girls that were still at the scene when detectives arrived..

Nothing has ever been done about the loss of my young brother in laws life.. That so very easily could have been saved with a simple call to 911.. As I said earlier without a shadow of a doubt it is the money and the last name of the punk ringleader that has kept this from being prosecuted!!

2 years later in 2008 this same punk ringleader with another friend spent their entire night at a local strip bar.. After hours of drinking and doing drugs they got into an altercation with 2 other guys at the strip bar.. These two other guys at one time were very good friends of this guy.. the fight spilled over into the parking lot and when the two guys(the former friends) left out in their car that the ringleader and his friend squealed tires outta the lot after them.. A huge and extremely high rate of speed, senseless chase and fight continued on the interstate..That ended in the ringleader running the car off the interstate and exploded in a fireball killing both guys instantly.. Even tho it is still an open investigation and many have given their eyewitness accounts of who was fighting with and squealed tires out of the lot in pursuit of the two victims.. No matter.. This punks family money and last name has kept him from ever facing consequences for now having been responsible for 3 young men's loss of life!!!

The only solace that I have is in knowing that one day he will face God, the ultimate of all judges, and on that day the punishment that he receives for what he has done will be more sufficient than what the inside of any jail cell in this world can offer him while here on earth.. He will face judgement and the ultimate of consequences..one day..

I don't think it's near as easy and or uncomplicated as some are painting it to be that when a "friend" ODs that those "friends" automatically most times do the right thing in getting help for that "friend".. Infact just the opposite happens quite frequently as in my brother law suffering such a painful and unneccesary death all because of these "friends"..

Sorry so very long in length.. Just wanted to share a personal experience that shows realistically what alot of time occurs in *cases of drugs and ODs..

 

[curiousgirl2010]

What facts support your choice?

What about just dying from a combination of meds prescribed to her and mixed with alcohol. Or not an OD situation but simply an interaction or something affecting her QT condition and causing her heart to stop. I wouldn't call any of these things "freak" accidents - 150,000 people each year die from their prescribed medications being properly used. (Do you know how many people die from stranger abductions???) So it wouldn't necessarily even be an OD. Drugs, including alcohol kill people at normal doses, not just overdoses. Also the order in which you put these items is bizarre, they are certainly not in the order of the mostly as supported by the facts. Stranger abduction and murder is one of the least likely yet you have it as number 4 and chose it without any basis.

Ultimately, if my life depended on it, I'd say I'm on the fence.

However, my hunch is that it was a stranger. Not a premeditated crime, but one of opportunity.

I have the right to have my opinion just like everyone else here has the right to have theirs.

I find an OD implausible. The friends have lawyers. They could get out of murder charges if they had come forward A LOT earlier.

Even though a stranger crime is uncommon, it happens. Again and again. All around the world. Women get raped/murdered by strangers. It happens.

 

[cluciano63]

Ultimately, if my life depended on it, I'd say I'm on the fence.

However, my hunch is that it was a stranger. Not a premeditated crime, but one of opportunity.

I have the right to have my opinion just like everyone else here has the right to have theirs.

I find an OD implausible. The friends have lawyers. They could get out of murder charges if they had come forward A LOT earlier.

Even though a stranger crime is uncommon, it happens. Again and again. All around the world. Women get raped/murdered by strangers. It happens.

It does happen but often the bodies are simply discarded and found rather quickly. People with ties to the victim generally take care to hide the bodies, overall. The reason we know that women are sometimes raped and killed on their way home from work, etc. is often because their bodies are found in an alley nearby...JMO

PS- Also by the time the lawyers were in the mix, several days had passed and most lawyers are not going to advise their clients to bring forward any info concerning knowledge of a death, when there is no body.

 

[northsider]

There are a lot of inconsistencies in what you're saying...
1) You say it's implausible for the OD Scenario, but you think it's perfectly ok to think that should would walk to JW's at 3:00am (the end of your crucial period) but JR says she called DR at 4:15. If she were on her way to JW's how would that make any sense? Ok, let's say maybe you meant to say that 4:00 to 5:00am was the crucial period... in this case why would she call DR from JR's instead of JW's if she was going to his house? Wouldn't it make more sense that she was going to DR's at 4:15 than JW's since that's who JR said she called? Now of course this is all based on JR telling the truth. If he is lying about the 4:15 call, then she didn't just walk over to JW's did she?

No, I don't necessarily think she walked to JWs at 3:00. I was saying that if she did walk to JWs, it wasn't as far as people claimed. As for the rest...I don't think JR is telling the truth, simple as that. I've always been bothered by the inclusion of the 4:15 phone call and the 4:30 sighting because absolutely nothing backs them up.

The reason I think 2:30-3:00 is the crucial time is that something seemed to happen at Smallwood which completely changed the course of the evening. I also think the 2:51 sighting is more critical because we're not certain who she came through the alley with.

2) It's been demonstrated probably 20 times on this blog that YES even good friends have friends drop dead while under the influence of various substances and ditch the body. So, however implausible you think it might be it's been proven to be a frequent enough occurrence so as not to be considered implausible.

As I clarified later, I don't question the ability of good friends freaking out and ditching dead bodies. What I do question is good friends, in the condition they were likely in during this evening, being able to ditch LS' body without detection or leaving traces in their apartment(s). And, if she wasn't seizing or spraying fluids, then I would say it's just as likely her friends assumed she'd passed out and would still wake up in the morning.

3) your statement about 2:30 to 3:00 am as the "crucial period" does not point to any relevance. LS was captured on cam at 2:48 exiting the Alley and "Activity" was recorded. Yet JR say she left his place at 4:15 to 4:30.
It seems to me that the Crucial period is between 3:00am (about when she would be leaving CR/MB's and 4:15 (when she supposedly called DR and left JR's)

Again, I don't think JR is telling the truth at all. As far as I'm concerned, nothing he reported to the police should be considered accurate.

 

[cluciano63]

For those of you with an interest in Forensic Astrology, there is a new reading posted here on WS on that thread...we can't discuss it or bring it here, just FYI, FWIW...

 

[northsider]

Where do these fallacies come from?

1) JW was not tested for drugs or alcohol that I am aware of.
So his level of sobriety is unverifiable.

True, it's unverifiable. Again, I'm going off MSM statements and other comments that most have used to exonerate JW, perhaps too hastily.

2) It is not clear what substances were used at JR's party palace.
IF the drugs were stimulants, one can actually function better and faster than normal. So just because someone has drugs in their system does not mean they are a buffoon acting like the 3 stooges... they could be instead thinking quickly, acting quickly and at the top of their game

.

Well, if JR's party palace only had alcohol and Xanax, he wouldn't have much reason to worry about LE. If it's got coke, then I'm assuming he's done his lines already that evening...it's not like cocaine makes you feel high forever. If there's weed, then that's not exactly going to put someone at the top of their game.

But you are right about the mystery POI's and particularly the ones present at CR/MB's and at JR's place or any other place LS may have been in between...

 

[curiousgirl2010]

It does happen but often the bodies are simply discarded and found rather quickly. People with ties to the victim generally take care to hide the bodies, overall. The reason we know that women are sometimes raped and killed on their way home from work, etc. is often because their bodies are found in an alley nearby...JMO

PS- Also by the time the lawyers were in the mix, several days had passed and most lawyers are not going to advise their clients to bring forward any info concerning knowledge of a death, when there is no body.

I respect your arguments. At the same time, it's very easy for a stranger to hide a small body... a lot know that without a body, there's not a conviction.

But I agree, this case is very troubling. What time is the press conference today?

 

[bunnyesq.]

11 a.m. Bloomington time.

 

[cluciano63]

I respect your arguments. At the same time, it's very easy for a stranger to hide a small body... a lot know that without a body, there's not a conviction.

But I agree, this case is very troubling. What time is the press conference today?

A stranger would not be connected to a body unless there is DNA i.e., whereas a husband, boyfriend, etc. would be a suspect at once. A random stranger is not a suspect until and unless he commits another crime and happens to have DNA in the database, or was seen leaving the area, etc...so he would not really be thinking "no body, no crime." In fact almost all of the "no body" cases that have been tried, according to the listing on a detailed website about these cases, someone close to the victim was almost always charged and taken to trial.

 

[Jupiter812]

This morning, I'm attached to how JR via HT seems to have just enough CYA-type stories to make himself look good and attempt to avoid finger pointing and blame:

* His prodding of LS to sleep on the couch
* His telling LS that he'll watch to make sure she doesn't stumble
* His watching LS walk not just up the street, but around the corner

Bottom line: If he cared this much about her safety, then WHY DID HE ALLOW HER TO LEAVE W/O shoes, phone, keys?!

 

[jjenny]

A stranger would not be connected to a body unless there is DNA i.e., whereas a husband, boyfriend, etc. would be a suspect at once. A random stranger is not a suspect until and unless he commits another crime and happens to have DNA in the database, or was seen leaving the area, etc...so he would not really be thinking "no body, no crime." In fact almost all of the "no body" cases that have been tried, according to the listing on a detailed website about these cases, someone close to the victim was almost always charged and taken to trial.

While I agree that it is rare, it's not unheard of for a stranger to hide a body well. When Amber Dubois went missing, her body was not found until Gardner told police where it was.

 

[cluciano63]

While I agree that it is rare, it's not unheard of for a stranger to hide a body well. When Amber Dubois went missing, her body was not found until Gardner told police where it was.

True, he knew his DNA was in a database...

 

[PineMushroom]

I respect your arguments. At the same time, it's very easy for a stranger to hide a small body... a lot know that without a body, there's not a conviction.

But I agree, this case is very troubling. What time is the press conference today?

With respect, can you lay out your case for stranger abduction other than than just stating than a vague that you think that is happened? Since you have over 450plus posts here I can assume that you know that stranger abduction is rare according to the FBI.

I am not trying to be argumentative or dismiss you out of hand (although I am close to that point) can you make your case based on your knowledge of that part of B-town, the BPD press conferences, the families statements, the action or inaction of POIs, or do you just dismiss that all and for some unexplainable reason believe that she was snatched off the streets of North College on an early Friday morning?

I want to hear you out as you are clearly passionate about your belief, but can you bring a theory based on what we know?

BTW, I addressed up thread your statement, without back up, that 'early on' they must have searched everyone's car, etc. - you haven't responded.

Thanks in advance.

 

[curiousgirl2010]

While I agree that it is rare, it's not unheard of for a stranger to hide a body well. When Amber Dubois went missing, her body was not found until Gardner told police where it was.

Jonathan Foster's and Morgan Harrington's killers also hid the bodies.

 

[cluciano63]

Morgan's killer also knew that his DNA could be matched to another crime, so he was not a first-timer...
As far as Jonathan, he did not hide him very well, he was found very quickly, if I remember correctly.

 

[cluciano63]

A case with many similarities to Lauren's is the Katie Sepich rape and murder. Her BF, after losing track of her a party (where she left her phone and purse, no less) later refused to give DNA and quickly left town. She was killed by a random stranger, as it turns out, but her body was found the next morning, as she was dumped, as is common in random crimes. Of course we don't know where Lauren is, or where she will be found, but I am sure that profliers, FWIW, will use that location to try to determine a possible perp. (If she is found...)

 

[curiousgirl2010]

With respect, can you lay out your case for stranger abduction other than than just stating than a vague that you think that is happened? Since you have over 450plus posts here I can assume that you know that stranger abduction is rare according to the FBI.

I am not trying to be argumentative or dismiss you out of hand (although I am close to that point) can you make your case based on your knowledge of that part of B-town, the BPD press conferences, the families statements, the action or inaction of POIs, or do you just dismiss that all and for some unexplainable reason believe that she was snatched off the streets of North College on an early Friday morning?

I want to hear you out as you are clearly patient about your belief, but can you bring a theory based on what we know?

BTW, I addressed up thread your statement, without back up, that 'early on' they must have searched everyone's car, etc. - you haven't responded.

Thanks in advance.

You can dismiss my theory if you want.

I've been following this case from day 1 and I just feel like being snatched by a stranger seems like the more plausible scenario here.

I do not have knowledge of the Btown area, but what I do know, is that women are raped/killed by strangers everywhere in the world. It happens.

After 3 weeks of search, I think that if any of the POI's were involved, police would have found some kind of evidence on their apartments. If she OD'd, there would be some kind of foresenic evidene left on one of the guy's apartment.

For me, the most simple theory is that Lauren left Rosembaum's house, maybe tried to walk to her boyfriend's house, and got offered a ride or got talked up by a stranger.

 

[jjenny]

...
As far as Jonathan, he did not hide him very well, he was found very quickly, if I remember correctly.

In Jonathan Fosters' case, the body was found very quickly, so it was not hidden well at all (and the suspect is female, not male).

 

[123F]

I have been following this case from day 1 and IMO JR is lying. Rumors are that he deals Coke, though that is only a rumor, the fact is, she was at his place with no phone,shoes,keys, etc. She placed a call from his place to DR. I spectulate that she was trying to locate her keys. She did not want to stay at JR didnt have her keys or phone so where was she going then. She must have known she couldn't get into her apt without her keys, she didnt call HT who lives with her to let her in so something is obviously wrong with JR's story. If it were me and I had no way of getting into my apt and I didnt want to stay where I was at i would keep calling friends until i reached one that would let me crash their place which i am guessing was a "safer" alternative to JRs.

Bottom line.... JR is lying. She never left his place on her own will....